Topic: Another pretentious indie game yet...

[KaZudra]

Limbo was okay, but it led to same thing as braid, a $15 game that I only played once and never wanted to touch again because it has to be played the exact way the developer intends, this seems to be a major problem with modern "Puzzle" games.

Touhou games prove that bullet hell can be in any game and still be fun

[Pfil]

Thanks for being so lovely.
Yeah, I totally forgot that Touhou are Indie games too, good point.

You are welcome!

It's easy to forget Touhou games are indie because they are, in every aspect, better than almost anything that comes out nowadays.

Another annoying thing is that today everything has to be the best ever.
A song comes out. It's the best song ever!
A movie comes out. It's the best movie ever!
A new genre enters the VG industry. It's the best genre ever!
And, of course, a new game of that genre comes out...
It's the best game ever! BEST GAME EVER? - Journey - Part 1

You can also see here Journey (FULL GAME COOP WALKTHROUGH Part 1/2) [HD]
in a comment, the best conversation ever, according to some user.

By the way, Journey was the best game of the year for IGN, so, as always, IGN following a trend.
Something new, always, has to be the best.
Best game of 2012? They had plenty of good titles to choose from, which all of them I consider to be more enjoyable than Journey...
Let's see... Assassin's Creed III, New Super Mario Bros U, Darksiders 2, Dragon Quest X, Legasista, Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams, Gravity Rush, Bravely Default, Dust: An Elysian Tale, Atelier Ayesha, Rainbow Moon... and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more that could have been my favourite game of the year.

And also, according to IGN... Xenoblade comes out... "It's the best RPG ever!".

From my perspective, no genre can stand next to platforming and traditional JRPG, and no new game can be compared to Super Metroid or Chrono Trigger / FF6 (like IGN did this week, with the review of this topic and the Xenoblade article, respectively), unless the new game is a MetroidVania or something similar, which can be compared to Super Metroid, or that the new JRPG is traditional, and perfect in every way (I can't think of a new RPG that can stand next to FF6 or CT, but Eternal Sonata, Valkyrie Profile 2 or Star Ocean: The Last Hope can make good examples, being some of the best JRPG's of the last years).

Limbo was okay, but it led to same thing as braid, a $15 game that I only played once and never wanted to touch again because it has to be played the exact way the developer intends, this seems to be a major problem with modern "Puzzle" games.

Touhou games prove that bullet hell can be in any game and still be fun

Totally!

[Puwexil]

Is this real? Why are you upset about Sliva enjoying his time with a video game? He described the game's premise, setting and central mechanic and elaborated on his emotional response to them. Seems like an infantile tantrum to start throwing around accusations of someone being high or inebriated based on that. All that's there is a more thoughtful than average preview of an upcoming video game.

People value different aspects of entertainment and also respond to them differently. Several of the games you've mentioned in this thread and seem to champion as counteracting "pretentious" games, I'd just as readily dismiss as disposable trash. I don't think it's a good reason to get all up in anyone's face about it, though.

[Abnormal Freak]

While Super Metroid is one of my favorite games, I don't know how it's so esteemed that a modern game can't be compared to it. And there's more than just gameplay style that can draw a comparison: I find that Limbo has more in likeness to SM than any of the post-SOTN Metroidvanias because of its atmosphere and sense of being truly alone in a bizarre world. It evokes a FEELING and experience that have more ties to SM for me, and a lot of times that's what I cull from games, not simply its play mechanics or story, which is what you seem kind of hung-up on, Pfil. If those are what you get out of games the most, good; but as stated, people enjoy games in different ways.

[Lelygax]

Its because in the past we received normal reviews, without no one trying to get emotional. Thats called profissionalism. Imagine if you are watching TV and the guy from the Weather Channel says "today its going to rain a lot, poor Jr., I promised to go to the park with him after my job =´(".

If its a forum, personal blog, lets play or something like that its okay.

[Abnormal Freak]

You guys are behaving like he's writing a "Dear Diary" entry. He brought up an interesting point--and not at length, I might add--about the nature of the game and what it could make the gamer ponder. He's not even writing a review here but a first impression. There's nothing overly emotional about WHAT he's writing, he's just relating his experiences. Which I personally find fascinating.

Would I personally have the same experience? Probably not, but the author of the article makes me wonder about it a bit.

[Pfil]

Is this real? Why are you upset about Sliva enjoying his time with a video game? He described the game's premise, setting and central mechanic and elaborated on his emotional response to them. Seems like an infantile tantrum to start throwing around accusations of someone being high or inebriated based on that. All that's there is a more thoughtful than average preview of an upcoming video game.

People value different aspects of entertainment and also respond to them differently. Several of the games you've mentioned in this thread and seem to champion as counteracting "pretentious" games, I'd just as readily dismiss as disposable trash. I don't think it's a good reason to get all up in anyone's face about it, though.

I just wanted to share my frustration with fellow dungeonites, and see if there is anybody who feels the same about this kind of game.
Why the frustration, you must think? Because I love 2D games, and as of today, I'm already giving up on trying every 2D game I see, because all latest ones were big dissapointments. And while I feel this way and I almost never see a game like the ones I enjoy, IGN gives Journey the award for best game of the year. Anyone ever felt that her time is passing? That no new thing will ever satisfy us anymore?
Well, that's how I feel. It's like there's a new era, and I'm out of it.

IGN said something like this: "When ending Journey, every human being will have a different reaction, but everyone will have a reaction. Some people cry. Some people just stay in silence. Some ask themselves existential questions".
I ended Journey, and the only thing I thought was "This was so boring!, I must go play something good".
I felt NOTHING. And I'm a person who usually feels a lot.
I cried with Metroid: Other M ending, I cried when Sara died in LoI, with the final scene of Shanoa and Albus in OoE, with SotN ending...
I cried with movies like Cinema Paradiso, Atonement... with poems like The Raven, with music from Ennio Morricone, Queen...
I'm a person who feels and cry a lot. But this didn't make me feel anything. Not to mention that I found it to be a cheap Ico rip-off.
So, I must be "out" of what it's supposed to be "emotional" today.
Maybe we don't have FF6, or Cinema Paradiso, or Queen, or Edgar Allan Poe anymore.
Today it's just this... and it's sad.

By the way, I don't understand how you can dismiss FF6, Chrono Trigger or Star Ocean 4 as trash.

While Super Metroid is one of my favorite games, I don't know how it's so esteemed that a modern game can't be compared to it. And there's more than just gameplay style that can draw a comparison: I find that Limbo has more in likeness to SM than any of the post-SOTN Metroidvanias because of its atmosphere and sense of being truly alone in a bizarre world. It evokes a FEELING and experience that have more ties to SM for me, and a lot of times that's what I cull from games, not simply its play mechanics or story, which is what you seem kind of hung-up on, Pfil. If those are what you get out of games the most, good; but as stated, people enjoy games in different ways.

A modern game CAN be compared to Super Metroid. Many MetroidVanias are better in my opinion. There are plenty of games in PSX, Wii, PS2 and PS3 that I like more than SM. Just THIS ONE game can't be compared, in my opinion. Nor any game similar to this.
And what I seek for in games is: soundtrack, aesthetic and story I like. And for me to like it, it MUST BE emotional and sensible. That's why praised games like Banjo Kazooie or Crash Bandicoot never worked for me.
But... music to be emotional for me must be neoclassical, which is what Castlevania is, for example. Any game can have that, anyway. Megaman has a lot of tunes with neoclassical chord progressions. Aesthetic can be one from many, I like Castlevania, Megaman, many JRPG's, Contra, Sonic, Skyrim... it's not mandatory, as long as it's pleasant... story must be emotional, yes, especially for RPG's, but that can be skipped (many old Castlevania games have little story and they still make me feel, because the aesthetic and music is so overwhelming that I just can't resist my feelings). In fact, the music alone can make me feel a lot of things. Or a cutscene alone can provide that. Perhaps just the fact of gazing up to old ruins with a stormy night sky.
There's plenty of things that can make me feel. But these new games, I just find them boring.
Gameplay is a distant one when it comes to what I look for in a game. It helps, but I seek the other things first. Art, if you want. It can be called art.
But I can't find anything artistic about this new trend of games.
Even genres of games that I find extremely boring, like FPS, provided me with feelings (Modern Warfare 3, for example).

Its because in the past we received normal reviews, without no one trying to get emotional. Thats called profissionalism. Imagine if you are watching TV and the guy from the Weather Channel says "today its going to rain a lot, poor Jr., I promised to go to the park with him after my job =´(".

If its a forum, personal blog, lets play or something like that its okay.

Of course, if I wrote a review, I wouldn't say, for example:
"Portrait of Ruin was a game that touched me very deep in my soul, for example hearing "Gaze up at the darkness" when I knew the final battle was approaching gave me the goosebumps, and then the beauty and perfection of the theme at the ending credits made my eyes teary... it's so neoclassical and so Castlevania at the same time, and I love classical music so much... also, the background of the WWII made me remember stories told by my grandfather when I was a little girl, and that touched a string in my heart, because I miss him so much these days that I feel so alone. That, combined with the ghost in the castle and the tragic tale of the two sisters and his father, made a perfect combo that struck just perfectly my emotions".
Those are personal feelings, and I am the only one who can relate to them. I can talk about them here in a forum (and I think I'm saying too much), but there's no place for that in a review.

And by the way: music in all these recent games is being praised as excellent, great, and whatever. I just find it plain, purely and simply boring.

PS: At least we are about to get Duck Tales, Dungeons and Dragons and Shovel Knight.

[Inccubus]

Seems to me like the reviewer was the pretentious one. It doesn't sound to me like the game asks any of those questions or portrays any of what he imagined up. Also, comparing Samus Aran to an archeologist makes me think that he never actually played the early Metroid games because it's made pretty clear that Samus was raised by the Chozo and she's concerned with eradicating the metroids, not uncovering the history of the ancient Chozo since, yeah, she already knows all about them.

Don't get misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with letting your imagination fill in the blanks or thinking beyond the content of the game. But sometimes when you find a wrench on a toilet it's just because the plumber was fixing it.

[Puwexil]

By the way, I don't understand how you can dismiss FF6, Chrono Trigger or Star Ocean 4 as trash.

I didn't even specify which of the aforementioned games I consider garbage because I didn't want this to devolve further into a "you don't like the art that I like" pissing contest. But if you're curious: only two of those are actually good, and certainly not immune to criticism.

I just get this overwhelming sense of dour cynicism emanating from every point you're trying to get across in this thread. Good video games haven't disappeared anywhere, and they continue to exist in a multitude of forms. The rise of the indie scene is giving a noticeable voice and platform to works that wouldn't have seen the light of day some years in the past, even. There's no reason for the doom and gloom.

Aside from that, I don't know how this one game in particular is pushing so many of your buttons. It's not out yet, and you know very little about it. It's this enormously negative kneejerk reaction based on nothing, except someone dared to compare it to the finer points of Super Metroid.

Finally, am I mistaken or is there some confusion here about what the article is? It's not an offical review or whatever false corporate legitimacy you want to assign to it, it's an account of one person's impressions based on a showfloor demo. Heavens be if he tries to engage the reader in a more personable, informal way, as opposed to listing dry bullet points and features.

[Pfil]

So...
The games I "championed" in this thread as good examples of many things were:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Valkyrie Profile 2
Super Metroid
Star Ocean: The Last Hope
Eternal Sonata
Cave Story
La Mulana
Touhou
RosenkreuzStillette
Portrait of Ruin
Order of Eclessia
Mirror of Fate
Contra: Rebirth
FF4: The After Years
Sonic 4
Modern Warfare 3

Only 2 of them are good...

OK... 

[Pfil]

Seems to me like the reviewer was the pretentious one. It doesn't sound to me like the game asks any of those questions or portrays any of what he imagined up. Also, comparing Samus Aran to an archeologist makes me think that he never actually played the early Metroid games because it's made pretty clear that Samus was raised by the Chozo and she's concerned with eradicating the metroids, not uncovering the history of the ancient Chozo since, yeah, she already knows all about them.

Don't get misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with letting your imagination fill in the blanks or thinking beyond the content of the game. But sometimes when you find a wrench on a toilet it's just because the plumber was fixing it.

I agree, the game doesn't seem to ask any of these questions, that's why I said the critic was high or drunk.
But that's just showing how much critics want to sound "cool", because today they MUST like indie games and talk about psychological and philosophical mambo jumbo, that way they will be "in", with the current "cool" thing.
And yes, he doesn't seem to understand a lot about what Metroid is.

As someone said, these games are something to try one time, with no replay value, and I personally find them terribly boring.

And I want to make clear this thread is not against the indie scene. It's about denoting a current trend that I personally find very annoying.

Why don't they just focus on making platformers with the elements they have? Just jump and shoot, I don't need more, and what I need the less is to read nonsense from gaming sites. And IGN does that that. A LOT.

Days ago they compared Guacamelee to Castlevania.
I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. God...

[VladCT]

Whatever happened to intense action and kablooeys everywhere anyway? I miss Gunstar Heroes.

[Abnormal Freak]

I agree, the game doesn't seem to ask any of these questions, that's why I said the critic was high or drunk.
But that's just showing how much critics want to sound "cool", because today they MUST like indie games and talk about psychological and philosophical mambo jumbo, that way they will be "in", with the current "cool" thing.

I call bullshit on this statement, because how do you know the guy isn't genuinely reacting to the game in the way he did? PARTICULARLY since he wrote a first impressions article, NOT a review. The concept that games mean different things for different people seems to keep whizzing right past your head; you keep saying that all YOU need is a jump and shoot button, well whoop-de-fucking-doo, perhaps others want something else. You become increasingly snide with each post you make.

I for one can't stand Sonic 4. I think it's the most mindless rehash with broken controls that completely ruins the physics and sense of speed that's in all the old games. Sonic Rush was a much better comeback classic title that enhanced the experience to boot. Hell, I'll even take the kinda-good-but-not-great Sonic Generations over 4.

So...
The games I "championed" in this thread as good examples of many things were:

[games]

Only 2 of them are good...

OK... 

I'm pretty sure the "only two" that he was referring to are two out of the three that you singled out.

And now you're not just showing a snide attitude toward the IGN editor and "the current trend" of indie developers, but a perfectly courteous board member as well.

[Puwexil]

Only 2 of them are good...

OK... 

Of the three I quoted, one is a very bad video game.

If you include everything you brought up, then yes, there's a number of terrible games, some average ones, and a few good ones. The point is that everyone's taste varies, and where you see unbearable pretention someone else might see an enjoyable, thought-provoking video game. Is it really such an incomprehensible concept that people interpret these things differently, not to push some nebulous agenda, but because that was their genuine emotional, intellectual, or plain white-knuckle gut response to whatever they witnessed?

[Pfil]

Alright, I apologize if my attitude was rude.
I realize now that with each post I was more annoying.
I just can't stand this trend of games. I was a little nervous these days.
I'm sorry. I'm having a bad week.
You are in all your rights to dislike Sonic 4, I also prefer Generations, though I liked them both (Abnormal Freak).
And you are in your rights to dislike Star Ocean 4, but I don't understand it, it was near perfect for me (Puwexil).
My greetings and apologies to both of you.