Topic: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

[Abnormal Freak]

I must disagree with this. I never chose to be alienated by LoS. It just alienated me, period. I knew it was going to be different and I went in with no real expectations, but I was not expecting what I saw and played. I gave the game a chance, more-so then it deserved. But in the end I'd had enough. It let me down.

Same here. I'm sure people recall me saying LOS was pretty damn cool when I first gave it a shot. I was trying to be optimistic and see the good things, but eventually it all really grated on me. I know the comparison has been drawn plenty of times before, but it almost felt like Lord of the Rings: The Video Game, which I thought from the very beginning when the teaser was shown, before it was officially called a Castlevania game, and folks were saying, "This should be a Castlevania game!!!!!!" Big non-Japanese-lookin' trolls definitely aren't what I associate with Castlevania.

[Chernabogue]

[Ahasverus]

Not this again.

[A-Yty]

Everything comes full circle

[Kale]

LoS is not horrible. It just isn't great.

And when LoS came out or rather, announced... it didn't really show much. If I recall correctly it just showed Gabriel jumping through a window. It looked cool, it showed off character design and cutscenes... both of which is still good in LoS. The gameplay is what I dislike.

[Flame]

"All it takes is one mention of [Lords of Shadows], and everyone goes batshit insane."

[Successor The Cruel]

Lord of the Rings: The Video Game, which I thought from the very beginning when the teaser was shown, before it was officially called a Castlevania game, and folks were saying, "This should be a Castlevania game!!!!!!" Big non-Japanese-lookin' trolls definitely aren't what I associate with Castlevania.

I admit that I think this teaser still has some nice style to it, which could fit in well with Castlevania.
Also, Gabriel's pose at 1:15 seems rather Japanese to me. Holding out your hand, looking down at the floor (not at your opponent) and then doing a whip strike? That pleasantly overly dramatic display actually seems like something a character in an anime might do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00

There simply wasn't enough shown for it to be fishy. I get that the ogre is a World of Warcraft looking enemy, but we had no idea that the game would be filled with those...

The more we saw, the more we were like, "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh... WTF!?!?"

[crisis]

Perhaps they should've played it safe & stuck with their original pitch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR2bb2OfdbY

[DragonSlayr81]

I admit that I think this teaser still has some nice style to it, which could fit in well with Castlevania.
Also, Gabriel's pose at 1:15 seems rather Japanese to me. Holding out your hand, looking down at the floor (not at your opponent) and then doing a whip strike? That pleasantly overly dramatic display actually seems like something a character in an anime might do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZ-IoRZf00

There simply wasn't enough shown for it to be fishy. I get that the ogre is a World of Warcraft looking enemy, but we had no idea that the game would be filled with those...

The more we saw, the more we were like, "Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh... WTF!?!?"

PERSONALLY, I would've preferred(and perhaps respect a little more) if they made the ogre(in the trailer and the boss) Balore instead of a typical "Ogre". I mean, they wouldn't even have to do much(just give him a raw eye that shoots lasers), as they can make it an HD version of DoS's Balore:

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Balore

I mean, artistic wise and size, Balore and the Ogre look VERY similar:

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Not this again.

LOL you guyz!

[DoctaMario]

2 - Not really. The combat feels like God of War more than LoI for me. I played both too.
2.5 - Not the point. Being a remake doesn't let the game be immune from critics. Personally, being a reboot was the least of the LoS problems for me, having shitty modern gameplay and some choice designs is what made the game cringe-worth for me (I don't really like the games it's based on). Also music is not my cup of tea, even though I understand the score of the game asked for music like that
4 - Offense taken... nah, not really. Yeah, they need to catter to LoS fans right now, which aren't people who loved the old games of the franchise (mostly).

Other than the grab button, the combat is straight out of LoI. Gabriel and Leon have a lot of the same moves too.

I'm not saying the game should be immune from critics, I'm saying that you should expect anything classified as a reboot to be a good deal of a departure from what came before. That's why it's a reboot and not a sequel. RE: "shitty modern gameplay" Are you typing this on a typewriter? I don't think there's anything wrong with LoS' take on modern gameplay. It's well paced, challenging, and fun imo.

*I* loved the old games, and LoS is the best Castlevania imo since Dracula X Chronicles. Honestly, I've always felt like a some of the older games got a bad rap by people who came on with SoTN or the Castleroids, and didn't give the games i loved the most a chance. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

5 - People want new games based on the past experiences they had. Not a point at all.

The argument that "the old things will never go away" never holds up because, just as Maedhros pointed out, new experiences are desired. I love a game like Rondo of Blood, and can continue to play it over and over as I have, but there's nothing new.

Sure, but when what you want isn't being made anymore, you still have the older games to go back to. It's why people still listen to old music. I get it, and I understand (it's partially why DXC is my favorite CV game) but you either stick with the old or get with the new.

A lot of fans were also jaded because they (MercurySteam, Cox) were initially labelling the game as "Super Castlevania IV in 3D," which is a HIGHLY debatable claim.

Then they tried saying MoF was their version of CVIII. We all know how that turned out.

That's silly though. What kind of claim IS that? How would they do that, and why would anyone believe that it was going to be like that? One thing i've learned is that when they liken any new game to an old game, it's usually bullshit and they're just using it to suck people in.

I must disagree with this. I never chose to be alienated by LoS. It just alienated me, period. I knew it was going to be different and I went in with no real expectations, but I was not expecting what I saw and played. I gave the game a chance, more-so then it deserved. But in the end I'd had enough. It let me down. True that there was wall shimmying and climbing like in the N64 titles, but it was balanced and not over saturated like it is in LoS. The whip combat has almost zero to do with LoI and much, much more with GoW and that's what MS was aiming for when they did the combat system.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. That's one thing. But people act like MS/Konami have offended them personally by releasing something that isn't exactly like what's come before. I'm not shocked or surprised, it's the internet, land of hyperbole.

I thought there was a good amount of shimmying/grappling. It was nice to have some actual platforming, and the scale on which it occurred was interesting and gave the environments a good sense of size. You can experience how huge the castle is by grappling and moving around it rather than that info coming only in the form of a shot of the outside. They show you rather than tell you. Same with the 64 games.

As far as the combat goes, like I said above, it's totally reminiscent of LoI other than the grab button and the magic meters. Gabe and Leon have some of the same moves, and the layout is the same. The camera angle is different too in LoS, it's more like CoD's, which may account for any other differences you notice. I'm not saying it's NOTHING like GoW, but again, it's plenty influenced by LoI.

[crisis]

That's silly though. What kind of claim IS that? How would they do that, and why would anyone believe that it was going to be like that? One thing i've learned is that when they liken any new game to an old game, it's usually bullshit and they're just using it to suck people in.

Well when the previews for LoS were coming out, we (well most of us) were extremely gullible and quick to give the benefit of the doubt. Cox has been on record saying that "SCVIV is his bible" and LoS is largely based on that game. Of course many of us got excited because SCVIV is an awesome game, in a lot of our Top 5 CV's, but.. the final product was very different with only a few hints of SCVIV here & there (yeah i know this is subjective, as fans see things differently, but for me and apparently a lot of others on this forum feel the SCVIV elements were few & far between). That upset a lot of fans since Cox was touting the game was gonna be the 3D equivalent. We were gullible because some of us thought (more like hoped) this was gonna be the next CV game that would dethrone Symphony in legacy. The joke was on us I guess!

And that's when the mistrust of MS/Cox started to begin, with the fumbling of words in interviews, misleadings of gameplay elements, etc. Doesn't help that Cox doesn't come off as a humble servant of the fans, despite claiming that LoS is a "love letter to Castlevania;" He's a guy that loves to hear himself talk, block fans on Twitter for questioning his design choices or inquiring about his contradictions, subtly denounce Castlevania's legacy (yeah he hasn't outright said that, but in his interviews, you gotta read between the lines), etc. I don't mean to drag IGA into this, but, his games aside, he was almost the exact opposite of Cox in demeanor, and passion for tradition AND fans of the series. I still think a team-up of Cox/IGA/MercurySteam would've yielded far better results than what we got, since IGA seems to "get" Castlevania's gothic atmosphere/aesthetic & the little details we as fans love to see, moreso than the developers at MS.

Remember that rotating spiraling parallax room in SCVIV where you're constantly jumping from panel to panel fending off skeletons? Cox has said they have something "like that" in LoS2. Lets see how THAT'S gonna turn out. (although it'll prolly turn out awesome, I'm sure there's gonna be shimmying of some sort involved)

[Belmontoya]

Maedhros does not speak for the fans of the old games. Most people I know who have been fans of CV for 20+ years loved LOS. The problem is that most of those people choose not to nerd it up with us on these forums.

Dr. Mario, you're absolutely right with everything you said. But keep in mind that this forum and all of the other CV forums reflect only a small percentage of CV fans. So don't pay too much mind to the hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace a much needed change.

IGA started off great with CV but over the years his games really started to wear out and his creative limitations were evident. If this were not true, he would still be making CV games. It was his time to go.

If MS stops after LOS2 I'll be excited again for someone else to take over. The best thing to do is just to have a positive attitude about it.

We all have our own fantasies about the perfect CV game. And we'll never all agree on one. I prefer the action oriented CV's like CV1,3, 4, bloodlines and Dracula x.

On that note I want to tell everyone to go Download Castlevania The Lecarde Chronicles. This game better than any official Konami CV I've played in a long, long time.

[crisis]

So don't pay too much mind to the hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace a much needed change.

Please don't generalize the members of the forum as "hardcore IGA fans who cannot embrace change." That's such an ignorant, downright false response. We are Castlevania fans, not IGA fans. If you've been around for the past 6+ years then you'd realize this, and a lot of us wanted a change from IGA's formula as well. That doesn't mean we should automatically give LoS a free-pass just because it was radically different from "igavania," you know.

IGA's games when he was still the figurehead of the series were heavily criticized here, both negatively and positively. LoS is also heavily criticized here, both positively and negatively. And that's the truth of the matter, no matter how you feel about it.

[DoctaMario]

Well when the previews for LoS were coming out, we (well most of us) were extremely gullible and quick to give the benefit of the doubt. Cox has been on record saying that "SCVIV is his bible" and LoS is largely based on that game. Of course many of us got excited because SCVIV is an awesome game, in a lot of our Top 5 CV's, but.. the final product was very different with only a few hints of SCVIV here & there (yeah i know this is subjective, as fans see things differently, but for me and apparently a lot of others on this forum feel the SCVIV elements were few & far between). That upset a lot of fans since Cox was touting the game was gonna be the 3D equivalent. We were gullible because some of us thought (more like hoped) this was gonna be the next CV game that would dethrone Symphony in legacy. The joke was on us I guess!

And that's when the mistrust of MS/Cox started to begin, with the fumbling of words in interviews, misleadings of gameplay elements, etc. Doesn't help that Cox doesn't come off as a humble servant of the fans, despite claiming that LoS is a "love letter to Castlevania;" He's a guy that loves to hear himself talk, block fans on Twitter for questioning his design choices or inquiring about his contradictions, subtly denounce Castlevania's legacy (yeah he hasn't outright said that, but in his interviews, you gotta read between the lines), etc. I don't mean to drag IGA into this, but, his games aside, he was almost the exact opposite of Cox in demeanor, and passion for tradition AND fans of the series. I still think a team-up of Cox/IGA/MercurySteam would've yielded far better results than what we got, since IGA seems to "get" Castlevania's gothic atmosphere/aesthetic & the little details we as fans love to see, moreso than the developers at MS.

Remember that rotating spiraling parallax room in SCVIV where you're constantly jumping from panel to panel fending off skeletons? Cox has said they have something "like that" in LoS2. Lets see how THAT'S gonna turn out. (although it'll prolly turn out awesome, I'm sure there's gonna be shimmying of some sort involved)

I guess it's all about keeping your expectations in check, something I don't think ANY community is very good at. I'm not saying Cox isn't a dick (see what I did there? Cox/dick, ah hahaha!) but I'd rather have a guy who's a dick that puts out games I like than a nice guy who puts out the same old same old every year. I think the thing to remember is that, much like most folks here, Cox has his own idea of what constitutes a CV game. But unlike us here, he's actually in a position of power to make his vision happen. Being rude to the community isn't a good look though. Those are the people who get you paid. But he got a lot of grief over the direction and probably got tired of hearing about how bad a job he was doing, so I can understand his frustration somewhat, being called on the carpet by nitpicky fans every other day.

 I WOULD love to see a 3d rendition of the stage 4-1 in SCVIV! Man, that was one of my favorite levels!

Good stuff