Topic: Save your criticism

[Kingshango]

The comment taht "the music was effeminate" came from KONAMI itself, Araujo said he wanted to do it old school but Konami said they felt it was effeminate. Mercury takes a lot of bashing, and if anything the guilty is Dave Cox (the voice of konami), Mercury is kinda like Ninja Theory, that absorbed all the backslash of the "emo Dante" after they pitched a traditional Dante to Capcom and they told them to keep him as far from that as possible.

There was probably alot of executive meddling during development of the first Lords of Shadow game, probably one of the reasons why the final product felt so unfocused. The second game seems to have a focus now with it being their last Castlevania and all, well so far at least.

[Flame]

I'm glad this Simon never made it. All I'm seeing in this beta footage is a copy & past of Assassin's Creed.

3/10

Try harder next time.

[X]

3/10

Try harder next time.

Don't be condescending Flame. Sumac was let go because of that little problem.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Yeah, please refer to the "Don't feed the Trolls" thread.
That type of response adds nothing and makes you look bad.

[Dracula9]

That's pretty fair, Kingshango. I'll agree with you on that. Although,

Some felt even more discomfort that the series has suddenly been rebooted entirely and just dropped it's 20 plus year legacy in favor of a generic AAA blockbuster hack n slash to cash in on God of War developed by a western developer who's last game was objectively shit (even I hated it).

I'm confused here. What are you referring to, Ascension?

[Pfil]

Tell me how filling a game with classical style music fits with trying to make a game appeal to a dudebro audience?

Well, that's the core of the problem. I never used the dudebro label, but if the intention of Konami was that, that's the problem, nothing good was going to come out about the soundtrack.
And you can make anything with neoclassical base, it doesn't need to have classical instrumentation. What we have here is exactly the opposite. The orchestra have the instruments needed for classical music, but composition doesn't fit.

Here, this is epic (especially from 0:42 to 0:58). That's the kind of orchestral music I'd like to see in CV.

Soul Calibur 3 - 020 - No Regrets

Everything is about the composition. You can use any instruments but still be neoclassical.
The problem is Araujo, not if they use orchestra or rock instruments.

And what makes an opinion "valid" or not is just a matter of perspective. I've read a lot of valid complaints about the soundtrack on this thread.

The comment taht "the music was effeminate" came from KONAMI itself, Araujo said he wanted to do it old school but Konami said they felt it was effeminate. Mercury takes a lot of bashing, and if anything the guilty is Dave Cox (the voice of konami), Mercury is kinda like Ninja Theory, that absorbed all the backslash of the "emo Dante" after they pitched a traditional Dante to Capcom and they told them to keep him as far from that as possible.

I've always known that not only MS was to blame. The main guilty is Konami because they gave away the franchise in the first place. MS, if anything, did what they wanted to do, like any fan who makes a fangame and give the game its unique vision.

So... SoTN is a dudebro game..? it DID after all, copy Super Metroid, which was incredibly popular and still relatively new at the time.
This is my biggest problem with CV HD. It's ALL rock and it all starts sounding incredibly generic after a while.

The difference is that Super Metroid was a hell of an excellent game, and it copied the system but retained the look and music of Castlevania, things that here are completely absent, ESPECIALLY THE MUSIC.

And about CV HD, just try to listen to the chord progressions of the new tracks, and you will see that behind that rock mask (which is pretty nice, by the way) there's the same structure and essence of every CV soundtrack.

[DoctaMario]

Everything is about the composition. You can use any instruments but still be neoclassical.
The problem is Araujo, not if they use orchestra or rock instruments.

And what makes an opinion "valid" or not is just a matter of perspective. I've read a lot of valid complaints about the soundtrack on this thread.

Really, what this all comes down to is the, "What is Castlevania to you?" philosophical crap that was going on on a daily basis here once the CV label on LoS was revealed. Personally, I don't see drastic differences between LoS (music or gameplay) and earlier titles in the series. You and other folks on here do. It's all opinion. It's one thing if you don't like it, but to claim that the OST "factually" doesn't fit is a logical fallacy.

Konami was trying to breathe new life into a series that had been flagging for years, and while you may not like the outcome of that, it gave CV a higher profile as a current game than people paying lip service to how much they loved SoTN or CV1 in the press. Which means that we're likely going to see more CV games once MS is done. So LoS might be the gateway to you actually getting CV games you like now that it's been shown that CV can actually make money.

The difference is that Super Metroid was a hell of an excellent game, and it copied the system but retained the look and music of Castlevania, things that here are completely absent, ESPECIALLY THE MUSIC.

The emphasis on exploration over action and platforming was definitely NOT what the series was about. Plus we were playing a non-Belmont character that had ridiculous powers as opposed to a Belmont with many limitations. In a lot of ways, SoTN was an even greater departure than you claim LoS is. I remember when it came out, and I was a CV fan for many years before it did and I remember playing it for the first time and scratching my head as to why they called it Castlevania.

there's the same structure and essence of every CV soundtrack.

Is it really necessary to have EVERY game be EXACTLY the same? As much as i love many of these games, if they were all the same, I'd have stopped playing them a long time ago. LoS was a breath of fresh air just like SoTN was. And they all brought different elements to the table that wound up staying.

[DoctaMario]

I dunno, Yuzo Koshiro of all people said that there is no difference in limitations between composing using chiptunes or with live-action instruments. It's all about imagination and what you're willing to do. There have been bland chiptune music before as well as melodic 'real' music. If Araujo did the soundtrack using a chiptune it still would've been bland.

Embrace your inner dudebro, you know it to be true!

I'd love to see Yuzo do an entire CV ost himself. His contributions to the PoR OST were the highlights of it imo. I agree that melody isn't necessarily Araujo's strongest suit (I think his arrangements and orchestrations are fantastic though!) but the OST has a lot of really beautiful music on it.

And I might be part dudebro. I HAVE been wearing a backwards ball cap a bit lately. 

[The Silverlord]

When I think of music for a gothic game that's trying to appeal to "dudebros" I think of upbeat music with thumping electric guitar and solos. We heard a lot of this in the IGA games and even some in Rondo of Blood.

LOS has an orchestral and sometimes very delicate score. Tell me how filling a game with classical style music fits with trying to make a game appeal to a dudebro audience? They did a great job with the score of this game, and they did it without cheep hooks and cheesy guitar rock genre crossovers. They did what was right for the game.

Can you even imagine a Curse of Darkness score in the place of Lords'?

Chilling.

[The Silverlord]

I'd love to see Yuzo do an entire CV ost himself. His contributions to the PoR OST were the highlights of it imo. I agree that melody isn't necessarily Araujo's strongest suit (I think his arrangements and orchestrations are fantastic though!) but the OST has a lot of really beautiful music on it.

Here here. Koshiro's Actraiser stuff in particular I find awe-inspiring, and it wouldn't be out of place in CV.  He could do it, and there'd be melody and hooks.

[Belmontoya]

Curse of Darkness was one of the least Castlevania like games I've ever played and in my opinion it is one of the worst 3d Vanias out there. I thought the music in COD was also mediocre, like the rest of the game.

It's also another example of IGA ripping off ideas from other games. But apparently when IGA does it, it's ok.

@DoctaMArio. Once again you say what's exactly on my mind. Well put. All of your comments.

[Belmontoya]

Oops sorry maedrhos. I forgot I'm not supposed to say anything remotely critical about Igarashi or you'll vote my respect points down.

[crisis]

Curse of Darkness was one of the least Castlevania like games I've ever played

I agree, but it did have it's redeeming qualities here & there (Dracula battle, Dracula's voice actor, Trevor Belmont, the cutscenes were generally better than Lament's, St. Germain's unique personality, weapon forging, etc.)

and in my opinion it is one of the worst 3d Vanias out there.

Yeah, many feel it was actually a step backwards from Lament. Stages were way too long, Hector runs way too slow, however I feel had they included A LOT more [well-placed] platforming with hazards, especially in Dracula's Castle, then the game wouldn't be hated on as much as it is. Even some easter eggs would've helped everyone's outlook on the game (a scene depicting Alucard's tomb, a cameo by Grant, etc.)

I thought the music in COD was also mediocre, like the rest of the game.

Now this I respectfully & strongly disagree with. I thought the soundtrack was excellent, here are a few of my favorites:

Castlevania: Curse of Darkness OST: Abandoned Castle

Castlevania: Curse of Darkness - The Forest of Jigramunt (EXTENDED)

Castlevania: Curse of Darkness - Followers of Darkness ~ The First (EXTENDED)

Castlevania Curse of Darkness - A Toccata into Blood Soaked Darkness ~ Dracula First Form (EXTENDED)

It's also another example of IGA ripping off ideas from other games. But apparently when IGA does it, it's ok.

I don't really understand this statement. What exactly did he rip off, and who here gives him the OK? He's been hated on ever since Harmony of Dissonance, continues to be hated on even to this day, and he's ALWAYS had more haters than supporters. The only game I can see he "ripped off" from was Nanobreaker (an equally shitty game), since him & his team basically admitted to using that game's code & resources and remade it into CoD. I've seen some people say "Devil Forging is a ripoff of Pokemon!!" but that's just a downright silly argument to make, and makes the debater sound childish.


I'm not here trying to convince you or anyone that Curse of Darkness is a good game (hell i feel it's only halfway decent, only because I've played A LOT more worse games that CoD, that are in the same hack n slash genre). It's definately imo the worst 3D Castlevania and arguably one of the worst games in the series. But I'm just offering my viewpoint on it; even your most hated CV game still has it's loyal fans (some of whom were even introduced to the series via CoD), and I can understand why.

[Kingshango]

That's pretty fair, Kingshango. I'll agree with you on that. Although,

I'm confused here. What are you referring to, Ascension?

I was talking about Jericho.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

It's also another example of IGA ripping off ideas from other games. But apparently when IGA does it, it's ok.

I don't know where that's coming from, and I'm not sure I dig the tone of it, as it's implying that there's a huge IGA fanboyism here.  Had you been here at any point after Harmony of Dissonance and before Judgment, you'd know that this is not really the case.

I am not a fan of Curse of Darkness (or Lament of Innocence, really), but one thing I love from those games is the music.

Every game has its share of fans and its share of dislikers.  That's what makes this community great; that there's essentially an unspoken system of checks and balances.  For every "that game is great because of this" you'll get a "yeah but it failed in this one aspect because of this other thing".  As long as people can be civil about their differences, things are OK.

So I would appreciate it if accusations aren't thrown so carelessly around.

By now, there have been enough games developed, that any one idea is usually derived from, inspired by, or outright taken from, another idea.  By this logic everything is related or, in a worst outlook, 'ripped off' of something else.  It is true no matter what genre of gaming you look to.  The truly 'new' ideas are brought up by new ways of play (Wii Controls, Kinect, touch screen, tablet gaming, dance pads), creating new sparks of ideas.