Topic: What is Castlevania for you?

[Lelygax]

Please, define castlevania telling me what you like, what you dislike, what you want and what you dont want (and what is a man?!)

If someone needs a explanation for this, its for my personal researchs for the future and this can be used for posterior reading too if a lot of people help in this. I would like if even some of these dodo birds users appeared here to help, but I need more luck for that 

Stairs, pits of doom, stages? We're better with or without them? We really need exp or levels? We need 100 levels or only 10? Candles or barrels? We need more games with partners? This is a little example of what I expect from this thread. Even if I personally isnt very fond of LoS, try  to not make this thread in a war, so please be polite.

[Dracula9]

For me, Castlevania isn't as strictly defined by gameplay as it is by ideology and "feel." While I'm not going to say the series can exist without the good ol' whip-cracking, spike-jumping, stair-climbing tradition, those aren't my defining factors. For me, it really boils down to how the game in question feels. Does it feel like a Gothic (or Neo-Gothic in some cases) epic across a pocket dimension of barely controlled chaos? Does it feel like a brief interlude amidst an expansive history of good against evil?

I tend to like the smaller things on the whole; such as historical accuracy of how a certain buttress is stacked, or how a piece of music can affect ambiance in a given area. I like being able to explore areas more, as opposed to having to hurry through to avoid timers running out; I like to stop and sight-see, to take in the timbre of a grand hall or a forest or a dungeon, to really get a feel for and appreciate not only the effort put in by the designers, but for the character of the area, and moreso, the game.

For instance, while a good many others will say negativities about LoI's platforming systems, I'll be busy admiring an adornment on a tapestry or at the way a certain enemy moves or attacks. While they'll argue about the timeline placing of it, I'll be noting that Walter looks silly in that tiny little throne of his.

I guess a tl;dr would be that Castlevania is more defined by artistic direction and/or "feel," in relation to gameplay, but with a more prominent role, instead of the other way around. I think this is why I still like LoS even when I agree with most of the points against it, or why the discussed "bad" platforming in LoI doesn't bother me in the slightest.

And a man is a miserable little pile of secrets. You know that.

[darkwzrd4]

To me it is about the war between "GOOD" and "EVIL". The setting of which is Dracula's castle (aka Castlevania). The forces of evil are lead by either Dracula or someone who allies themselves with him. There heroes are those who fight evil. Usually the Belmont clan who wield a mystical "holy" whip that is especially effective against those who ally themselves with the forces of darkness. Other heroes include Alucard (Dracula's traitorous son), the Belnades clan (a bloodline with powerful elemental magic revolving around fire, ice, and lightning), and others.

My favorite style of game is the Metriodvania (though I can do with out the leveling up if there are items the permanently increase your stats placed throughout the game). I just love being able to explore the areas and having different weapons, but the leveling up makes the games too easy. I wouldn't mind having instant death traps like bottomless pits, quicksand, collapsing ceilings, etc.

What I would love is a game that incorporates all these things. LoI is a good example, but most of the areas were very flat (it was better and CoD though). LoS probably did it the best. I just don't like being limited to wielding a whip the whole game and the fact that the enemies had way too much health. I don't like fighting enemies with that much health while trapped in a room and running though sections with little or no enemies. The older games didn't do that. The enemies were placed in most rooms, You were rarely locked in rooms until the enemies were taken care of, and some rooms has infinitely re-spawning enemies. And what ever happened to medusa heads? Not to mention I hated the titan fights and all the shimmying found in LoS1.

Truly, what I would love to see is a 3D remake of SotN. Not 2.5D side scrolling like DXC, but actual 3D like LoS1, LoI, and CoD. It would keep most of the areas the same layout, but the prospective would be different as the camera will be behind Alucard. It would have plenty of platforming, exploration, and everything else we liked in the original SotN just in 3D. Though I would want the leveling system removed and overpowered weapons like the crissargrim to be nerfed. Imagine fighting bosses like Scyllia, Galamoth, and Dracula's "true form" in a 3D environment. I'd also like to see Richter and Maria as playable characters with their own stories and equipment. For example, Richter's story could be about attacking the castle trying to prevent Dracula's return (which is likely what would have happened if he wasn't brainwashed and control by Shaft). Maria's story could be what she goes through searching for Richter in the castle and running into Alucard. If executed properly, it could be the best CV ever.

[Lelygax]

Dracula9 - Nice to see you being the first one to share opinions in this thread. You did answer in a way that I expected, that is doesnt being restricted be anything and sharing your thoughts as a whole, without restraints. Thanks, this only adds fuel and now I want more opinions xD

edit:
Darkwzrd4 - I think that the level up system is unbalanced too, SOTN is so easy with all these powerful items, a ton of ways to heal yourself and so many stat points vs so many weak enemies.

Basically you two want a Castlevania that maintains the feel, exploration and item-finding but have more features from the classic games isnt it? PErsonally, me too. Even so, its cool to see opinions from another people, because small details or differences ever appears;

[crisis]

For some, it's man with whip fights monsters in world of nightmare, Dracula may or may not be wearing a mask

For others, it's Ayami Kojima drawing elegant characters while Michiru Yamane composes beautiful music to set the mood, & IGA dictates story & aesthetic

For me, it's a combination of everything; gothic atmosphere that has thick ambience, with excellent tunes that'll stay stuck in your head long after you shut the game off, swinging pendulums with spike traps & medusa heads, creepy monsters mythological or original, and loose ties to real-world history. I'm OK with Dracula not being Turk-slaying Vlad Tepes to the T, this is a fictionalized version after all. I like how he's in an eternal struggle against mankind & God for his own losses. I like how he quotes from the Bible, "For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world, but loses his own soul?" I like how Gabriel is essentially a Castlevanized version of Anakin/Vader, because I too like the story of Anakin/Vader (the rise, fall & redemption), as cheesy as the prequel trilogy was to some. I've learned to accept it, and while it's not the most original approach, it's still cool nonetheless. I like how he too is in an eternal struggle against mankind, God AND Satan.

People keep saying that a FPS Castlevania would be a dealbreaker for them, but they have yet to play Akumajo Dracula: The Arcade (pretty sure none of us has), which is the closest to FPS the series has gone, so how can you be 100% sure you won't like it? Some people love classicvanias, others metroidvanias over the classics, but I love both styles. 3D games are hit & miss but no matter what any of us say they ALL have their good moments. So I guess to sum it up, as long as they keep the gothic atmosphere/aesthetic in tact, memorable music, awesome enemies & good gameplay, 2D or 3D, i'm happy.





tl;dr Simon's Quest Tiger handheld is all i need

[X]

As some of the others had already stated, Castlevania means many things. To me it's the whip-wielding Belmont hero/heroine, platforming, mood-fitting music, stage by stage or exploration via Metroid style, etc. But what I truly feel isn't Castlevania is the LoS games.

[Lelygax]

crisis - I found this really touching, IDK if its because the way that you expressed this.

X-

(click to show/hide)

[Maedhros]

A game with great gameplay and good music.

[Kingshango]

A monster mash massacre with methodical combat, platforming with a sick ass soundtrack to boot.

And a miserable pile of secrets in every wall and candle.

[TheouAegis]

Horror movie homages. Creative level design (I still find things in Rondo that I missed the first couple times playing). Passable stairs (fuck the ropes). Pits of doom. Although I still want to know how Simon and the guys in CotM fall so far like nothing happened. ... I will admit some pits shouldn't logically kill you while others should. And whipping. No fucking swords. It's about the motherfucking whip. Why is Simon a badass? Because he uses a whip! Why is Alucard a badass? Because he's the son of Dracula. ... Yeah, it's all about the whip.

[DoctaMario]

I'm not even sure anymore. Once upon a time I'd have said "Castlevania 4," but the series has changed so much over the years. I'd say probably a dark mood, not necessarily gothic, dilapidated atmosphere, a hero fighting monsters and Dracula.

i don't find the Sorrow games or any of the DS games to be very "Castlevania" in my opinion (some of that has to do with the characters, some with the environments) but it's all part of the thing we call Castlevania, so it fits in there somewhere.

[Belmontoya]

Castlevania 1 on NES, Castlevania 3 Dracula's Curse, Castlevania Bloodlines, Super Castlevania 4, and Castlevania Rondo of Blood.

These games are all perfect Castlevania's in my opinion. The absolute paradigm being Super Castlevania 4.

[crisis]

I feel Ayami Kojima has embodied the essence of the entire saga with this artwork

[VladCT]

Having grown into a more music-oriented person when it comes to games, I feel that Castlevania just isn't Castlevania without the diverse, memorable music.

[RichterB]

Good question! I may have to come back with more thoughts later. But...

Castlevania has a certain amount of varying potential. The 16-bit era showed that with just the interesting differences/quirks between IV, Bloodlines, Rondo, and Dracula X; moreover, the differences between all of the games through SotN prove that. The insistence on trying to replicate SotN rather than leaving it as one-off like Simon's Quest and then trying to totally reinvent the wheel with Lords of Shadow is where I take great issue with the series...

I'll break it down like this:

*It can be either 2D or 3D. (Castlevania 64/LoD was the best proof for me of the latter).
*Needs whip as primary weapon.
*Needs sub-weapons. (And the double/triple shot item is nice, too).
*Needs candles.
*Limited or no combos/super moves.
*Limited to no "arena" combat.
*Limited but not sluggish mobility--the character just can't be Superman or a ninja.
*Death pits/spikes!
*Stairs; the addition of ropes is acceptable, but not a substitute.
*Platforms that have interesting manipulation to them--they flip, they drop, they swing, etc.
*Action and platforming happen together, not separately, driving you forward.
*Stage-based structure of some kind. (Progression map is a plus!)
*Manipulation/use of environment is a plus.
*Gothic atmosphere that pulls from Hollywood Monster movies, but with a touch of elegance.
*Levels outside of the main castle--a journey to the castle.
*Catchy music that mixes genres of old and new.
*Classic good versus evil narrative (against all odds).
*Light puzzle elements and occasional open environments are acceptable, so long as it maintains a stage structure.
*The story is loosely locked in an actual historical time frame rather than a fantasy land/time (which LoS has done).
*Branching paths like CVIII is a plus (not like how they were done in Rondo, though).

So, broadly, the definitive Castlevania games for me are probably:
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
Super Castlevania IV
Castlevania: Dracula X (SNES)
Castlevania 64/Legacy of Darkness
Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge
Castlevania: Bloodlines
Runner up:
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest