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Offline Ratty

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2013, 09:18:00 AM »
0
No one is going to force a Church/Mosque/Synagogue etc. to host a gay Marriage in the USA.

Places of worship are allowed to deny marriage to interracial couples- http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/kentucky-church-bans-interracial-marriage-150009470.html This is their right as a private, non-government funded religious institution. (Unlike, say, the Boyscouts who take millions in taxpayer money and meet on public property.) It would be exactly the same for gay couples. One of the many reasons why having an iron clad separation of Church and state is important. For countries with official State religions like Britain, the rights of the Church to discriminate can become much more murky.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 10:53:00 AM by Ratty »

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2013, 10:52:33 AM »
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*sigh* My country doesn't have a separation of church and state, which means not only gay marriage, but any kind of non-religious marriage is not recognized. Unless you get married in a different country, then the marriage is recognized in retrospect.  >:(
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Offline KaZudra

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2013, 10:56:27 AM »
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The Boyscouts are just Despicable, They are more bigot than anyone, banning gays because they think it'll spread like a virus with the excuse of "moral straight" policy, I think Tax payers money should go to something more productive, like the Boys and Girls Club.

A church's decision whether or not to wed Gays is entirely up to the church, forcing them to do something against their way of life is just as bad as banning gay marriage to start.

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Offline GuyStarwind

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2013, 12:00:39 PM »
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I was in boy scouts and even got my eagle scout and while it might have some bad apples we're not all like that. So, lets not give all of us that bad name.

Offline X

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2013, 12:27:50 PM »
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Quote
This last part confounds me. Are you saying that the government should have the ability to force a church to wed two homosexuals even if it goes against a particular church's doctrine? If that's not what you're saying, please say so.

I'll clear this up to help you out. What I meant about my earlier statement is that under the constitution a gay couple has the rights to marry. The church would argue otherwise but they can't outright interfere due to the terms of the constitution; separation of church and state. The church can't force their own laws on anyone when they have no power under said government. It would also violate the declaration of human rights and freedoms act. In the end a church can have the right to refuse a gay marriage, but that's as far as the constitution will allow them to go.

Quote
Separation of church and state exists to protect the church from tyranny.

This is not the reason why America's constitution was written up. The founding fathers (many of whom were free masons and persecuted under the church themselves) wanted to bring about a new country that was not under control of any religious law & order. Hence separation of church and state. It's not about protecting the church, but protecting the people from the church authority at the time. It was all for the people to have their say and their rights recognized rather then being persecuted because of their race, creed, personal beliefs, and in the case of this thread; sexual orientation. I don't know who told you otherwise, but I'm betting they didn't study their history.
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Offline KaZudra

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2013, 12:40:01 PM »
+1
I was in boy scouts and even got my eagle scout and while it might have some bad apples we're not all like that. So, lets not give all of us that bad name.
It was meant to target the people running it, not the people in it, sorry.

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2013, 04:18:34 PM »
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The Boyscouts are just Despicable, They are more bigot than anyone, banning gays because they think it'll spread like a virus with the excuse of "moral straight" policy, I think Tax payers money should go to something more productive, like the Boys and Girls Club.

A church's decision whether or not to wed Gays is entirely up to the church, forcing them to do something against their way of life is just as bad as banning gay marriage to start.

They now allow gay scouts to join, just not gay scout leaders.
Yeah, they only partially lifted the gay ban.

Offline Ratty

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Re: U.S. judge strikes down Utah's gay marriage ban
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2013, 06:35:33 PM »
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I'll clear this up to help you out. What I meant about my earlier statement is that under the constitution a gay couple has the rights to marry. The This is not the reason why America's constitution was written up. The founding fathers (many of whom were free masons and persecuted under the church themselves) wanted to bring about a new country that was not under control of any religious law & order. Hence separation of church and state. It's not about protecting the church, but protecting the people from the church authority at the time. It was all for the people to have their say and their rights recognized rather then being persecuted because of their race, creed, personal beliefs, and in the case of this thread; sexual orientation. I don't know who told you otherwise, but I'm betting they didn't study their history.

The legal separation of church and state was designed to protect both. As I just showed in the demonstration above about the Church being able to descriminate based on their race-based beliefs, something a business would not be able to do. Though the primary purpose was to prevent the persecution of religious minorities. With things like extra taxes or an inability to hold public office for those who did not follow the state-sanctioned religion or religious denomination, iirc both were penalties the British had used at one time or another.

To be sure many of the founding fathers had interesting thoughts on religion, but author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President Thomas Jefferson takes the cake. He compiled his own version of the New Testament which removed all miracles performed by Jesus, and once had this to say about the Virgin Birth “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” —Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 

Merry Christmas btw! Lol
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 06:40:01 PM by Ratty »

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