Topic: Do you really think SCV4 is as good as everyone says? (I do)

[Pfil]

Due to some recent talk in another thread, I've been really surprised to find out there's many CV fans who don't hold up so dearly to SCV4. I've always thought it was the number 1 game in popularity, but once someone stated otherwise, many fans (including me) came after stating that, though they like it, they don't consider it to be so good as many people says.

So, do you think it is overrated?
Or, on the contrary, this kind of talk about SCV4 bothers you?

Let the fun begin!

Edit: I corrected a typing error in the title.

[PFG9000]

No, it's not overrated.  If it's not the very best CV game, then it's very near the top of the pile.  No game in the series has matched the juicy atmosphere, and few have rivalled the soundtrack.  The controls are tight, and they're significantly improved over their predecessors, although in a way that feels like a natural evolution for the series.  The graphics are dark and detailed.  The visual style is more realistic than previous entries, but this also feels like a natural evolution.  Thirty-two years (give or take) after its release it remains as perfectly playable as the day it came out.  That's phenomenal, especially considering it was among the first SNES games.

[Pfil]

Well, I don't think it is overrated, I was just surprised that so many people don't think it's the best.
I thought it was the holy grail of the franchise.

If you ask me to deliver an opinion not based in my personal CV ranking, I would say that it features unique atmosphere, great look, very dark and gothic, and an excellent gameplay.
About the music, I would say that it is different from the almost all the rest of the franchise, yet very, very good. I'd venture saying that it is unique, also. I didn't found any other soundtrack to contain that thick sense of atmosphere and gothic horror mixed with beautiful melodies.

That said, in my personal preferences I have more appreciation for almost all MetroidVanias, Simon's Quest, Rondo of Blood, and in ClassicVanias I personally prefer CV3, Bloodlines, Chronicles and Rebirth.

So, I wouldn't say I don't like it, because every Castlevania game is worth a lot and I love them all (with a few obvious exceptions).
But it doesn't rank very high in my personal tastes for CV (it does rank high, however, in my all-time videogames preferences).

[Pfil]

Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! 

Thanks! 

[Ratty]

Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! 

Thanks! 

Done.
Personally, I think the term "overrated" is a bit tricky. Is it the best game in the series? No. Is it the best Classicvania? Not in my opinion.

But I do think it's a wonderful game that has aged extremely well, and it's probably the most accessible Classicvania. Because the uncommon tweaks to controls and level design made it easier than others in the series, but it still provides a good challenge. This has led to it being more widely praised than more rigorous but rewarding games in the series, like Castlevania 3.

I'd say it's more a case of most other Classicvanias being underrated because many casual observers don't appreciate the intense, need-to-memorize gameplay of most of them or, worse, mistake their carefully crafted difficulty for bad design.

PS- On the topic of non-series fans complaining about the design. Does all the complaining about Classivania jumping annoy anyone else? Not being able to change your jump mid-air is part of the challenge! And so is anticipating and properly whipping or dodging bats and meduas when you're on a ledge. Sheesh I've lost count how many times I've seen that brought up as a "flaw" of the older games. If you want a game that plays like Mario or Megaman, play one of those, but please don't assert as fact that every platformer not exactly like them is inferior.

[A-Yty]

It deserves all the praise it gets.

Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.

[VladCT]

Personally, I think the term "overrated" is a bit tricky. Is it the best game in the series? No. Is it the best Classicvania? Not in my opinion.

But I do think it's a wonderful game that has aged extremely well, and it's probably the most accessible Classicvania. Because the uncommon tweaks to controls and level design made it easier than others in the series, but it still provides a good challenge. This has led to it being more widely praised than more rigorous but rewarding games in the series, like Castlevania 3.

I'd say it's more a case of most other Classicvanias being underrated because many casual observers don't appreciate the intense, need-to-memorize gameplay of most of them or, worse, mistake their carefully crafted difficulty for bad design.

Can't really put it any better than this. Do I hail it as "ZOMG BEST CLASSICVANIA 5EVAH!"? No. Would I recommend people to start with this? Yes. Of course, I'd also recommend them to not rely on the 8-way whipping.

[Ralph]

Please mods, can you move this topic?
I've just realized I created it in the wrong section! 

Thanks! 

Done.

EDIT:

Haha wow, it appears Ratty and I both moved the topic. Two mods moderating the same thing... never seen that before!

Though to be fair, Ratty beat me to it.

---

Anyway, I've always held SCV4 in high regard. The killer atmosphere never gets old for me. Really, my only true criticism of the game is it's way too easy for a Castlevania game... but that doesn't mean it can't be really fun and immersive.

[HerrOrlox]

To say it is good is sort of redundant, I believe, as all (with perhaps the exception of one Simon's Quest, but I do not think that we are discussing that one in particular here) classicvanias are generally exemplars of good and careful game design (i.e. they are rather difficult, make no mistake, but they are also rather rarely punishing, at least not too much so).

How does it fare in comparison to other classicvanias, though? Note, this is strictly my perspective on things. Your mileage may vary.

Graphically, it is the series' first and last venture into gothic realism (earlier games simply couldn't afford the realism part, whereas the latter didn't bother to). This has, as other posters in the thread have pointed out, resulted in a dark, almost horror-like atmosphere (and this was, it seems to me, completely intentional, given the attention to detail that was present in the graphics). Music seems to have been designed to complement this, and it was done so rather masterfully (though this was, perhaps, result of the limitation SNES posed to composers), as the music simultaneously maintains its atmospheric qualities while still being a memorable chiptune-like.

The result of this synthesis of graphics and music was a highly developed atmosphere (a bit redundant of me, certainly there were not many other things such work could result in?). In relation to the rest of series, it presented the qualitatively highest development of the classicvania (NB: By this, I mean the first four games, rather than what followed after SCV4) formula of atmosphere. It seems to me that it maintained all the intentional B-horror flick cheesiness that its predecessors possessed while simultaneously adding elements of actual horror (within reason, of course, as you simply cannot have Kubrick on the SNES).

Aesthetically, therefore, it seems to be the best of the classicvanias. However, we mustn't forget that there exists one key aesthetical component of video games that I haven't mentioned: Gameplay.

Therein lies SCV4's largest successes and its largest failings.

I think that there exists a general consensus among CV fans that SCV4 is the easiest of all classicvanias. To me it seems that this is born of two elements: How the game introduces you to its functioning and how the game plays in general.

The way the game starts (difficulty wise) is perfect: Rather than being than requiring that you spill blood and sweat getting used to how it plays, the game allows you to get adjusted to it (this trait is reminiscent of other SNES games, namely Mega Man X and Super Metroid, indicating it was part - perhaps even the genesis - of this shift in game making philosophy). In my opinion (though quite possibly solely in it), it allows this lack of difficulty to go on for a bit too long (maybe even longer than intended), though it certainly does pick it up later. Overall, I'd argue this was a positive development.

Another positive development is the controls. Gone are the clunky controls and death-bringing jumps, and instead they are replaced with pinpoint controls that are almost universally praised. No further comments seem necessary here.

There does exist, however, an element that creates rather large imbalance in the game. The whip.

Allow me to make myself clear here: I do not dislike the whip mechanics as such. They are quite the interesting mechanics and Konami obviously put quite a bit of effort into them. I dislike the whip mechanics in relation to other parts of gameplay.
Namely, the subweapons. There seems to be a general trend (from what I've noticed, anyway, by playing the game and seeing others let's play it) that you rarely, if ever, have to use the subweapons. This is because the whip is simply too versatile.

Think about it: It can attack in any direction you want it to (with more than decent range!), it can block attacks, it deals more damage than most subweapons, it helps you get about the levels, if I recall correctly it can stun enemies, you can mess around with it if you're bored... I mean, what doesn't the whip do?

Let's compare the whip to the whip of previous games: There, the whip had pretty short range, limited moveset (you could only attack forwards), it couldn't block anything (unless you count attacking the projectiles), etc. It is exactly this sort of limitation that rendered the subweapons meaningful. I mean sure, it still was your primary weapon, but a rather flawed one.

In SCV4 I'd go as far as to argue that the whip simply deals far too much damage, so much in fact that you can tank quite a few of the bosses (admittedly not all of them, and the tankable ones generally limit themselves to the first couple of levels, but since bosses are supposed to be the test of all you learned of the gameplay, this isn't necessarily good design). Essentially, the whip is Mary Sue levels of overpowered.

How does this affect the gameplay in general? It does certainly make it a lot easier, however it didn't make it any less enjoyable for me - and that is the most important factor, I suppose.

Another slightly negative thing I can think of is the removal of alternate paths and characters from the previous game. The game did substitute with a metric ton of levels, though, but that does little to soothe the lost replayability. However, due to how fun the game is, it actually manages to compensate that in another form, so I don't think any less of it for that.

To summarize, the game presents two steps forward and one back from the previous games. It is the best of the classicvanias (and here I mean classicvanias including the games that came after SCV4), without a single doubt in my mind. Is it the best Castlevania ever? I can only offer doubt there. The metroidvania shift brought some quality games with it, however those games share a different core aesthetic than classicvanias (though they have more in common with each other than with the latest shift in the series) making them rather difficult to compare.
Is the game overrated? Slightly, I think (quite possibly due to AVGN's review, and its overall greater accessibility to your average player - and there I include myself - among other things), but not too much.

So yeah a good game. Got a little carried away writing a post about it, though, so sorry about that.

[Flame]

I think sc4 is a great game. but i think it gets way too much credit for what amounts to konami abandoning innovations sc4 brought. people gawk over it while for ex, i think bloodlines looks prettier. its soooort of overrated, but with good reason

[Belmontoya]

I think it is the absolute best game of the series and one of the best games of all time in general. There is no game I have gone back to and played as much. Everything is top knotch.

It was the first CV to feature the new mechanic of multi-directional whipping. This was a superb revolution in the game play. There were some imbalances because this had never been done. It should have been a mechanic that stuck in the series, as should the crouch walking and whip swinging. If these mechanics would have continued they would have had time to develop and we would have seen a more balanced game in the long run. For that reason, the slight imbalance is forgivable.

IMO the series went backwards with the rondo game play which felt stiff and limited. It also went backwards with the rondo graphics which looked cartoony and totally took away from the horror of the game. Bloodlines was good but still lacked in gameplay and graphics compared to SCV4.

I honestly think that no developer has been able to match what Treasure did with CV4. Not even close. And this games music is also miles above all the rest.

It is ridiculous and a complete shame that this games style was not adopted into the other games. I think it's because no other developer could pull it off even if they tried.

Is CV4 overrated? Certainly not. I believe that it is underrated.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

It deserves all the praise it gets.

Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.

I agree with pretty much everything here.^^^

I think it deserves all the praise it gets and then some.

The game may not be the best CV game ever, but it definitely is the best classicvania in my opinion.

[The Silverlord]

IMO, Castlevania IV is second-to-none in terms of atmosphere.

For me personally, it also has the best soundtrack in the series.  While the likes of Symphony and Lament also have an outstanding soundtrack, and much better production quality, I feel the Castlevania IV score is much more cohesive and perfectly complements the game atmosphere.  Belmont's Revenge comes in a close second.

While Castlevania IV is relatively easy and the mechanics 'broken' for some with the multi-directional whipping, it glides effortlessly along for it.  You can dispatch enemies with cool aplomb without breaking stride, and grapple whip points for smooth swinging.

The game just oozes class.  Even something so simple as the map screen is done beautifully.

[Kingshango]

I think it's one of the best gateway Castlevania games. Whenever someone ask's "I've never played a Castlevania before, what should I start with?" I alway recommend SCV4  before anything else because of it's accessibility, which can be seen as a weakness to some. Everything about the game feels well done (ok maybe the whip flailing was a little broken) from the atmosphere to the visuals at the time, the controls and most certainly the music, which still holds up very well to this day.


So yeah it deserves the praise it gets.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I save my Subweapon hearts for the boss battles.  That's when the subweapons shine.

TripleShot Boomerang annihilates Rowdain, Medusa, the Orphic Vipers, Puwexyl, and Koranot.  Just litter the screen with boomerangs.
The Whip does a good job against flying bosses like Zapf Bat and Gaibon.