Topic: Do you really think SCV4 is as good as everyone says? (I do)

[Neobelmont]

Due to some recent talk in another thread, I've been really surprised to find out there's many CV fans who don't hold up so dearly to SCV4. I've always thought it was the number 1 game in popularity,
So, do you think it is overrated?
Or, on the contrary, this kind of talk about SCV4 bothers you?

Let the fun begin!

Edit: I corrected a typing error in the title.

Honestly It's SOTN that I always hear about. Besides here every where else is a metroidvania we want Alucard and nothing but Alucard circlefest it's annoying as hell -_- There is more to cv than Alucard and the MV formula 

"oh hey you know what would be cool a HD remake of SOTN"

"Everyone knows that we want Alucard back he's the main character of the series"

"I wish we had an IGA MV game again"

It's this kind of Stigma that makes me think SOTN and the mv formula is overrated(this is not my main reason for preferring classic over mv just to kind of make that clear  ) , but this is about SCV:IV so I'll just try to stick to that alone. No I don't think it's overrated In fact I think it's earned it's right to be praised it's aged very well the controls are very fluid I hold the music as one of the Snes staples among final fantasy IV, tales of phantasia,and megaman x and many more . Heck right next to megaman X1 this is my favorite SNES game when I talk to my friends about the SNES one of them say LoZ:ALttP or even Donkey kong country me SCV:IV 

It's good but not everything is all sunshine and daisies.

 It's not a push over it is a cv game just abit easy for a cv game if that makes sense. My main problem is the falling stairs circle blade part coming from beneath you and I did use sub-weapons in this game maybe less than others in the series but I did use them. Also the eight way whipping is abit overpowered but it's never been that much of a negative to me but I think one way direction whipping would have made the game more of a challenge.


  I think it's not a game one could really hate it's a well polished cartridge simple as that.  Even a person who does not like it could find at least one aspect that flows with them

[Belmontoya]

 I think the reason you never hear people complain about the double jump or mid air direction change in SOTN is because SOTN is not really about the enemy battles or level designs as much as a game like SCV4 is. There are so many abilities you attain in SOTN that it doesn't really make a difference at a certain point. The enemies and levels in the game are not challenging to begin with. So it's pretty difficult to say if any one certain ability is imbalanced in that game. It deals more with exploration than it does with combat details. Who is going to complain about a double jump when you can turn into a bat and fly?

[DoctaMario]

No way is SCV4 overrated. Everyone's talked about the atmosphere and music which goes without saying. It's one of the few 2D games that I've always found to be very immersive. You get a sense of how dark, foreboding and grimy the world is. The game is a bit easy but I don't think it's easier than Rondo.

But let's talk turkey. SCV4 is truly deserving of the "Super" in the title because the game is EPIC in a way not many other CV games are. Just look at the map screen and the terrain you're traversing. It's a long time before you even get to the castle itself. It's almost like they wanted to make it seem like a reward just getting to the castle at all and give you a sense of how big Dracula's estate is by making it such a long time before you get there.

THe game does a great job of slowly building up the intensity. By the time you get to Stage V, you've already been through quite a bit and the atmosphere of that stage, from the beginning to the end when you finally walk right up to death's door, is INTENSE! They then dial it down a little for a stage or two, but build it back up and by the time you get to Stage VIII, your nerves could be shot. SCV4 is a high water mark of the series in terms of pacing.

There are a lot of "Holy Shit!" moments in this game, from the first time you play through the Rotating Dungeon, Stage V as a whole, the chandeliers in Stage VI, the Bat Bridge in Stage B, the Room Of Close Associates, and finally the candles lighting themselves after the (incredible) Death fight, and that creepy-ass music that accompanies it. There are more but these were always my favorites and thinking about it now just makes me realize how amazing the game really is.

As far as the 8-way whip is concerned, I think that was a last minute addition to the game. If you look at the way the game was designed, enemy placement, etc, the whip breaks a lot of it, especially in the earlier stages, which makes me think they put that in after most of the game was done.

I played this when it came out, and I have to say, it was amazing to see this game in action in big beautiful 16-bit after playing the earlier games. The game just seemed HUGE at the time, even compared to CV3. They just seemed to have so many great ideas, some of which took advantage of the new hardware, which was par for the course for Konami back then. Every game seemed better than the last and for a 1st gen 16-bit game, this one has aged really well like folks have said.

TL;DR SCV4 isn't overrated in the least, it deserves the accolades it gets even if just because of the atmosphere, pacing, and design.

[Inccubus]

The game is awesome and it did pretty much everything right. I'm a big believer in adding a lot of neat details to very game to make it more interesting ad fun. Super Castlevania (I drop the IV since it's made up) is dripping with cool details from the reactive bridge tiles in stage 2 to the ominous torches leading to Dracula's Lair.
I will agree with the analysis that the 8-way whip breaks certain things and was probably added later in the game's development. However, it's just so damn fun! And they've never been able to do anything nearly as awesome in any other game since. Also, I think the problem with the 8-way whip isn't the mechanic itself just the large size of the sprites.

[Belmontoya]

The 8 way whipping was great and it should have been further developed in later titles. I can think of 2 solutions to the imbalance off of the top of my head. 1: program the whip to not be able to whip through walls. This would eliminate the problem of being able to spam enemies before they have a chance to attack you. 2: give the enemies more abilities and or strength. I would like to see most enemies have 2 or 3 types of attacking methods as opposed to one.

Being able to attack through walls is super unrealistic and cheap if you think about it.

[Lelygax]

Montoya, I've never asked you about that but we can expect to see this mechanic in your game?

[Pfil]

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said on this topic.
But Ratty has resumed it better in my opinion.

It's not a case of SCV4 being overrated. It's that other ClassicVania games are too underrated.

I don't consider SCV4 to be the best Castlevania, but it's sure an excellent game that never ages.

[GuyStarwind]

I feel like I'm somewhat responsible for this thread haha. 

[The Silverlord]

It's not a case of SCV4 being overrated. It's that other ClassicVania games are too underrated.

Or maybe when held up to those other, supposed 'under-rated' games, Castlevania IV just does things better.  That's not necessarily putting down, or devaluing the others.  I don't think any less of the original.  The 16-bit at the time really was a jump up though.  Konami were on top of their game, SNES-era, even that early on after Gradius 3.

I mean, when fans talk about their favourite series stages, I'd happily be picking four or five for the top of my list, all from this game.   Forest of Monsters/Swamp, Library, Stage V, Stage B/Room of Close Associates .  .. they are that good.  Same if I were picking tracks of music.

There's just so much of this game done so well.

[Belmontoya]

Montoya, I've never asked you about that but we can expect to see this mechanic in your game?

The Rise of Castlevania will feature 8-directional whipping. But I will say that this thread has got me thinking about how we are going about it a lot.

ROC will sport a combination of many awesome mechanics from CV games that have never been in one game all at the same time.

Familiar enemies will have new tricks up their sleeves as well.

We will be very focused on balance and difficulty. This is one of the many things that I think Mig did a wonderful job at with Lecarde Chronicles.

[Maedhros]

Or maybe when held up to those other, supposed 'under-rated' games, Castlevania IV just does things better.  That's not necessarily putting down, or devaluing the others.  I don't think any less of the original.  The 16-bit at the time really was a jump up though.  Konami were on top of their game, SNES-era, even that early on after Gradius 3.

I mean, when fans talk about their favourite series stages, I'd happily be picking four or five for the top of my list, all from this game.   Forest of Monsters/Swamp, Library, Stage V, Stage B/Room of Close Associates .  .. they are that good.  Same if I were picking tracks of music.

There's just so much of this game done so well.

I think it's mostly nostalgia.

[Belmontoya]

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

CV4 brought real innovations to game play. Many of which had never been done before in a game much less a Castlevania.

Rondo brought a map system, alternate character and anime cinemas. Dracula's Curse brought alternate paths and characters. Bloodlines borrowed from CV4 and Dracula's curse. None of these games expanded on the way you actually play the game like CV4 did.

CV4 wins in innovation. It wins in graphics IMO. And it wins in music IMO. And the presentation of the game is incredible on top of everything else.

Nostalgia. Right.

[Ratty]

It's important to remember that the "best" is entirely subjective. (For an example I saw recently, this is why US Pizza chain "Papa John's" can legally say it has the "better" ingredients regardless of what those ingredients actually are. Because legally "better" and "best" are essentially meaningless opinion-based qualitative assessments.) The game is easier than it's fellow Classicvanias like I said. Which makes it more accessible and I believe for many who don't get the thrill of the challenge from the harder games it makes it a "better" title. I think other games in the series have had better music and graphics/atmosphere but again that's down to personal taste.

I'm interested in exactly how SCV4 was really "innovative" aside from the 8 direction whipping and the duckwalk though? It used a lot of mode 7 and it had some scrolling puzzle-like stages, though we'd already seen some of those in CV3. But I'd argue that, especially in light of many of these new aspects not being used in later games/SNES hardware specificity, a lot of these elements were artistic flourishes or experiments (in some cases one could say "gimmicks" if they wished to be negative) rather than true innovations. But it's been a few years since I've played the game, I'm sure there's some things I'm overlooking/forgetting and would like to hear about it's innovations from more devout fans.

[Belmontoya]

Whip swinging, whip fluttering and a dedicated sub weapon button.

[Abnormal Freak]

I think it's mostly nostalgia.

I fucking hate "it must be nostalgia" posts. Stupidest claim anyone can make.