Topic: Castlevania Lords of Shadow Mirror Of Fate HD

[Intersection]

That's completely nonsense.

Claiming the earlier games were "judiciously presented" as an excuse for them being scant

It isn't an excuse. If it was, almost every Castlevania game would have a considerable number of excuses to make. 
The plot elements in most Castlevania titles were indeed scant, but they always sufficed. They managed to build a simple, acceptable story that always proved perfectly adequate in driving the game forward. And that was all that ever mattered; Castlevania never needed an overabundant plot or a groundbreaking narrative, since plot and narrative were never considered priorities. CV titles excelled in other areas, so developers judiciously went for brevity and simplicity, in a way they knew would not prejudice the game itself.
Now, would Castlevania be any better off with a deeper, more compelling story? Probably. Lords of Shadow pulled it off magnificently, and I wouldn't enjoy the title nearly as much were that aspect to dissapear. But the fact is that Castlevania never really "suffered" from its absence.

(...) while at the same time claiming that MoF did nothing to establish Simon's (or any character's) personality is silly. Alucard in SotN is somehow more developed than Alucard in MoF, despite the fact that all we really learn from SotN is that Alucard is a half-vampire who favors his human side and will fight his father despite their blood relationship?

Let's take a look.
In Mirror of Fate, Trevor is a man who wishes revenge upon his father for the murder of his mother. He journeys to Dracula's castle, travels through the castle, uttering a few dramatic platitudes on the way, fights his father, but gets killed. He is resurrected as Alucard, shouts nonsense about his fate, gets even angrier at Dracula, tries to kill him again, and this time succeeds by teaming up with Simon. THE END.
In Mirror of Fate, Simon, raised from boyhood in the forest, wishes revenge upon Dracula for the murder of his parents. He journeys to Dracula's castle, travels through the castle, participates in a few incomprehensible exchanges, and kills Dracula by teaming up with Alucard. THE END.
In Mirror of Fate, Dracula is the evil lord of the castle Simon and Trevor explore. When Trevor arrives into his throne room, claiming vengeance for his mother, he remains cynical, and they begin to fight. When Trevor is killed, he reveals that he is Dracula's son, upon which Dracula dramatically regrets his actions, and, grief-stricken, attempts to revive his son. Several years later, however, when Simon faces Dracula, the latter jumps at his own grandson and tries to kill him, yelling "I cannot suffer to see this bloodline live on any longer!" Fortunately, he is defeated as Simon and Alucard join forces. THE END.

So... how exactly does this consist of any better characterization than that offered in SoTN?

And there's not "scores" of cutscenes in MoF. There's maybe six per character, all together equaling 22 minutes in a 9 hour game (That's 4%), and individually they're pretty brief, with very few lines actually said outside of a select few.

You're right; there aren't "scores" of cutscenes in MoF. It's a poor choice of a word. Essentially, I'd meant that many cutscenes felt entirely unnecessary.

EDIT:
castlevania aria of sorrow - cutscene dracula reborn

I mean, this isn't exactly wonderful writing.

It's not wonderful writing, but it isn't terrible, either. For a GBA Castlevania game, it's actually rather good.

Essentially, here's my point: Mirror of Fate's plot, in itself, isn't really any worse than any other title's. But it so heavily burdened with convoluted dialogue, unnecessarily dramatic staging, and confusing narrative structures that it ends up tripping over itself. Yet it's still presented as if its story was truly supposed to be taken seriously -- something which, judging from the current state of its plot, is rather hard to swallow.

[e105beta]

My phone deleted my rather lengthy response, which killed my desire to continue this discussion.

So just wanted to let you know I read your response, and agree to disagree.

[Intersection]

My phone deleted my rather lengthy response, which killed my desire to continue this discussion.

And so it did. I can't tell you how many times I've found myself in that situation. 

So just wanted to let you know I read your response, and agree to disagree.

Right. It's the best way to put an end to this discussion.

In any case, I couldn't possibly criticize you for enjoying a game -- that would be utterly pointless. I was only sharing what I'd thought of it.
If Mirror of Fate worked for you, well, that's a rather good thing -- after all, it's one of the reasons for which it was conceived in the first place.

[e105beta]

And so it did. I can't tell you how many times I've found myself in that situation. 
Right. It's the best way to put an end to this discussion.

In any case, I couldn't possibly criticize you for enjoying a game -- that would be utterly pointless. I was only sharing what I'd thought of it.
If Mirror of Fate worked for you, well, that's a rather good thing -- after all, it's one of the reasons for which it was conceived in the first place.

That's what I get for taking 60 minutes to finish a post XD

And yes, different strokes for different folks.

[Maedhros]

It isn't an excuse. If it was, almost every Castlevania game would have a considerable amount of excuses to make. 
The plot elements in most Castlevania titles were indeed scant, but they always sufficed. They managed to build a simple, acceptable story that always proved perfectly adequate in driving the game forward. And that was all that ever mattered; Castlevania never needed an overabundant plot or a groundbreaking narrative, since plot and narrative was never considered priorities. CV titles excelled in other areas, so developers judiciously went for brevity and simplicity, in a way they knew would not prejudice the game itself.
Now, would Castlevania be any better off with a deeper, more compelling story? Probably. Lords of Shadow pulled it off magnificently, and I wouldn't enjoy the title nearly as much without it were it to dissapear. But the fact is that Castlevania never really "suffered" from its absence.

This post should be put on a fucking pedestal.

Brevity and Simplicity. Great gameplay first. History later. As an action platformer series, that's what I always expected from Castlevania and will continue to expect in the future. When I want a good story in games, I play Visual Novels, RPGs, etc.

[Ahasverus]

^ Can you make a post without swearing, giving me cancer out of hyperbole or being so loud? Jeez.

We can have good entertaining story and good gameplay and the enw series is giving us that, it might not be the best written, but it's nice and entertaining, and certainly above videogame average so that's a plus. I bet none of us would be as excited as we are for LoS2 if the story wasn't that important, in fact, there are people that are interested in the game if only for the last lOS twist. THe old series was fine when videogames were like porn, some of the newer games went to a good direction (I'd even say CoD and OOE had just good stories) the problem is that those few games with story were taken down by being thrown together with the "porn-style" ones. That's why Im a fierce advocate of keeping separate Castlevania storylines, we can have one for rebirth plot-less games, one for intricate plotted and so, but for the love of god, don't mix them together. it just hurts both.

[Maedhros]

^ Can you make a post without swearing, giving me cancer out of hyperbole or being so loud? Jeez.

No.

[Ahasverus]

No.

Just what I thought

[DoctaMario]

Lol every time Maedhros posts something, it makes me hope his computer or his fingers break so he wont' be able to post his lunacy in public. xD

[Intersection]

That's what I get for taking 60 minutes to finish a post XD

I always seem to forget to set the login time to an arbitrary 5 hours to keep this from happening. So I've gotten into the habit of continuously copying my posts while I write, so that the final result doesn't get lost when I'm suddenly logged out after 60 minutes.
But it still manages drives me insane when I see a "not everyone is allowed to post on the forums!" message after half an hour of writing -- when I log in again, all that's left is a blank "new thread" page. Honestly, if we've managed at all to make it to the posting screen, it's obviously because we were members in the first place...

^ Can you make a post without swearing, giving me cancer out of hyperbole or being so loud? Jeez.

No.

Hehehe...

Lol every time Maedhros posts something, it makes me hope his computer or his fingers break so he wont' be able to post his lunacy in public. xD

I wouldn't say that. Maedhros seems to have his own set of posting standards, and so far he's done everything to live up to them. I find that admirable. Don't you? 

[Maedhros]

Lol every time Maedhros posts something, it makes me hope his computer or his fingers break so he wont' be able to post his lunacy in public. xD

I imagine you guys dying the most terrible deaths everytime you guys posts like anything LoS related is perfect or when I see you guys protecting yourselves with upvoting.

This is completely out of topic by the way, but if you guys want to internet fight, hell, why not. It's not like I have anything better to do anyway.

[e105beta]

Or none of us could internet fight and we can just stay on topic.

In regards to story, though, I have to agree with Ahasverus. I don't see why you can't have a narrative AND solid gameplay. It's not like they're mutually exclusive.

[Maedhros]

Or none of us could internet fight and we can just stay on topic.

In regards to story, though, I have to agree with Ahasverus. I don't see why you can't have a narrative AND solid gameplay. It's not like they're mutually exclusive.

Too bad MoF doesn't do any of both great. It's worse than LoS in every aspect as I said back there, IMO. Well, the castle is cool I guess...

The combat could be so much better... instead, they gave three "almost the same gameplay" characters.

The only reason I'm buying this is because it has Castlevania in the name and I already bought LoS and will buy LoS2. Need the complete collection.

EDIT: let me put "IMO" here despite being me with my username doing the post.

[TatteredSeraph]

So far, I'm rather enjoying MoF HD.  The graphics look better imo, smoother, and the lip-syncing in the cutscenes really helps.  Yes, the plot is ridiculously easy to work out - I twigged immediately as to who Alucard was as soon as he was shwon in the trailer with the 'Revealed by destiny' tag line - however, I still really quite like it.  I just wish that the game was longer, and that you could get more details on the family. 

I've reached the Nightwatchman.  I'm surprised though, as I think that they've removed his dialogue when he enters in the HD version as opposed to in the 3DS version.  Anyone else spotted this?  Does it happen elsewhere as well?

[Intersection]

I imagine you guys dying the most terrible deaths everytime you guys posts like anything LoS related is perfect or when I see you guys protecting yourselves with upvoting.

This is completely out of topic by the way, but if you guys want to internet fight, hell, why not. It's not like I have anything better to do anyway.

Gather round, ladies and gentlemen! It's time to witness the greatest confrontation of the century. Prepare yourself for high-octane entertainment in this legendary battle of wits. Get ready for.... THE INTERNET FIGHT!
On one side of the ring is our current champion, the mighty Maedhros. On the other side, we've got... oh, my... it seems we've the entire world!
Ladies and gentlemen, this promises to be a very tough fight for our hardened champion. Who will be defeated? Who will prevail? Only time can tell. Oh, the suspense!
Any bets before the fighting starts?
Yes, Sir? Madam? Would you like to place a bet?
Hey, you know what, I'll be honest with you: I'm siding with Maedhros here ( ).
And you, young man? Yes, you, over there. Who do you think will win?

Oh, the excitement!

Or none of us could internet fight and we can just stay on topic.

WHAT!? No! Please don't shut us down! We were just getting started.
Come on -- don't you want to see some real fighting action? Aww...
*aside* And what about my salary, huh? Do I get paid for this? Why, you ungrateful...
*speaks loudly again* Ahem! I'm dreadfully sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but the evil e105beta has forced us to suspend the show. *a collective groan is heard*. I know, I know. But don't worry, we'll be back next time, won't we? Do come again! Surely the next INTERNET FIGHT isn't too far away!