Topic: Castlevania Identity Crisis:what should the next Castlevania game be like?

[Dremn]

Bloodborne is looking pretty damn good, I can see Konami chasing that audience for the next reboot.

[DragonSlayr81]

Here is a random thought. I was going through the top 100 Vania songs on Youtube by VashClone and saw Melancholy Joachim on it. Made me wonder what if they show how someone like Joachim or Walter or Rinaldo ended up in their states. I.E how Walter lost himself to vampirism how Joachim became imprisoned how a Sucubus was made or how Rinaldo became the alchemist that he is known as. Just a thought.

The Japanese mobile comic seems to go into detail regarding a lot of this. I don't think anybody has translated it, though. Would love to see someone eventually rip it and translate it.

[Nagumo]

If I recall correctly, Walter's mother, who is named Bianca in the manga, at some point almost dies while she is pregnant with him, attempts to make a deal with a demon in order to save her life in exchange for her baby. But as it turns out, baby Walter made a deal with the demon first, so his mother dies in his stead and he is born as a vampire. It's pretty awesome.

[ROCKMAN X]

They should try another reboot. Just with Castlevania DNA this time around, instead of random references being shoehorned left and right.

NO NO MORE REBOOTS PLEASE!! just bring back dracula somehow or just focus on some other enemy like the Nazis from Hellsing there's no need for another reboot.

What we really need is something "Fresh&Familiar" NOT a reboot which is hit or miss like LOS trilogy,like many have stated just go back to what the original was all about and make a 3d game around it! Castlevania is an "action platformer" NOT a hack'n'slash and NOT an RPG! sure it can have a hint of both RPG&hack'n'slash but no way in hell should it deviate from being an action platformer.

Now looking back at N64 games they actually did one thing right they stuck to what original castlevania was all about but sadly the camera angels&controls were being controlled by dracula himself and COD&LOI follows SOTN more than the originals and the latest game focuses on just being a hack'n'slash/adventure game.

So really the fix is so damn easy.. they just need to make a 3d "Action platformer".. and please try not to rip off PRINCE OF PERSIA KONAMI!  he he just kidding they can rip-off off as much as they want assassins creed is a blight on POP's legacy.

Bloodborne is looking pretty damn good, I can see Konami chasing that audience for the next reboot.

I don't really want a Dark souls-eque game,its just a slow paced RPG unlike castlevania which was mainly about platforming&action and it was fast paced.

[Belmont Stakes]

NO NO MORE REBOOTS PLEASE!! just bring back dracula somehow or just focus on some other enemy like the Nazis from Hellsing there's no need for another reboot.

What we really need is something "Fresh&Familiar" NOT a reboot which is hit or miss like LOS trilogy,like many have stated just go back to what the original was all about and make a 3d game around it! Castlevania is an "action platformer" NOT a hack'n'slash and NOT an RPG! sure it can have a hint of both RPG&hack'n'slash but no way in hell should it deviate from being an action platformer.

Now looking back at N64 games they actually did one thing right they stuck to what original castlevania was all about but sadly the camera angels&controls were being controlled by dracula himself and COD&LOI follows SOTN more than the originals and the latest game focuses on just being a hack'n'slash/adventure game.

So really the fix is so damn easy.. they just need to make a 3d "Action platformer".. and please try not to rip off PRINCE OF PERSIA KONAMI!  he he just kidding they can rip-off it off as much as they want assassins creed sucks ass.I don't really want a Dark souls-eque game,its just a slow paced RPG unlike castlevania which was mainly about platforming&action and it was fast paced.

I am in agreement with you. I think the controller technology (at least the stuff I know about) may not be ready yet for the cumbersome task of jump, target, whip/secondary weapon, swing and dodge. Its getting close. Video games are going to require more on your toes multi tasking and targeting. Which brings me to another thought I have.
In the LOS series there was not so much in the way of quantity of enemies as there was quantity of health for enemies.
Which is more preferable. Longer stages treacherous stages with tons of platforming complete with endless bats flying at you from the edge of the screen in a timed cued up wave like pattern ala Castlevania I or minimal enemies with lots of health in a pool area like an arena reminiscent of the main hall of the vampire lords castle in LOS but no ledges. It seems there is a mathematical conundrum with powerful lesser enemies and sudden death platforming pitfalls. 

[ROCKMAN X]

I am in agreement with you. I think the controller technology (at least the stuff I know about) may not be ready yet for the cumbersome task of jump, target, whip/secondary weapon, swing and dodge.

No problems here buddy.. i have this! there's not a control in the world which a keyboard&mouse can't handle! so even if newer castlevania has control impediment in the consoles it won't be an issue in PC.

I'd imagine catlevania 3d game would be like prince of persia but harder and even if there are checkpoints to compensate for instant deaths there should still be some penalty for dying.

It seems there is a mathematical conundrum with powerful lesser enemies and sudden death platforming pitfalls.

There has to be a way around this! POP creators included a time-rewind feature to compensate for instant deaths so castlevania has to do something similar to compensate for constant knock-backs and swarming enemies in platforming or else just remake the concept altogether for a 3d game.

[Mike Belmont]

I'd also like a return of those film sprockets that were on the title screens of the first three games.

Absolutely agree . That`s one distinct thing that I see in CVIII when I played for the first time. I think its gives something special to a game related to Dracula and monsters from horror movies...

[Claimh Solais]

Instant deaths are always cheap in games, but there are games that find ways to make up for the cheapness. In 2D, for example, the Castlevania games always have checkpoints, or Mario games just have short stages in general. Doing things like these in a 2D game removes that "cheap" feeling.

In 3D games, like said already, the Sands Trilogy in Prince of Persia added the rewind feature, so unless you kept repeating the mistake, or were unfortunate enough to be caught in a platforming segment without any sand, you weren't given an instant death. Or, for example, Uncharted. When an instant death occurs (maybe falling into a hole, or hit with a trap), there are checkpoints that take you back only a small amount of distance.

When these instant deaths are things that force you to return to the title screen or from your last save, they can be a heavy annoyance. There ARE ways to make games harder without frustrating the player. Checkpoints and autosaves do NOT make the game worse, but are actually far more convenient for the player. Instead of a death forcing you to repeat a segment, and probably several prior segments due to saving, instead, make the segments harder.

One thing I appreciated about the earlier Castlevania games and especially the Souls titles is the way they handle their difficulty, and I think the next Castlevania should apply this. They don't swarm you with enemies, and they don't give them an unnecessary amount of health (coughLoS2cough). Instead, they give you a ton of unique enemies with different patterns, with enough intelligence to fight you without making the game overly difficult.

Games like Prince of Persia have some pretty shitty higher difficulty levels. All that changes is that you take more damage, and enemies have more health. This is NOT a fun way of making the game harder, it just makes the battle more tedious. The Metroidvanias with selectable difficulties had this problem as well. Instead of ramping up the amount of damage you take and heavily dialing down the amount of damage you dish out, only changes those a bit, while adding new moves to the bosses or enemies, change their patterns, make them faster or stronger, or hell, even add new enemies.

tl;dr: If you're gonna have instant deaths, find a way to make them feel less cheap. And if you're gonna make the game hard, don't make it artificially difficult.

[DragonSlayr81]

One thing I appreciated about the earlier Castlevania games and especially the Souls titles is the way they handle their difficulty, and I think the next Castlevania should apply this. They don't swarm you with enemies, and they don't give them an unnecessary amount of health (coughLoS2cough). Instead, they give you a ton of unique enemies with different patterns, with enough intelligence to fight you without making the game overly difficult.

Seeing the more recent footage of Bloodborne from Gamescon, I totally get what you mean.

Bloodborne - Official Gamescom Demo Gameplay: Full Play-thru | PS4 Exclusive Action RPG

 I really disliked the whole "tank enemies" of the LoS games. You look at the footage here and a lot of the more common enemies go down with a couple(three at max) hits, while larger enemies take more hits. That's how it should be in 3D CV games, at least IMO. Battling shouldn't be based on pulling off ultra-impressive mega combo chains(which is the reason enemies have such high HP), but should be more strategic where enemies are more dangerous but most common ones can be taken out quickly for players that think smart. To me, that's like a 3D evolution of 2D strategy regarding action platforming. Know how to lure enemies away from areas where they might hit you off, or time patterns and attacks to not get hit. To me, what let me down with LoS and IGA's 3D CVs were the whole arena battles where exploration is haulted until you defeat a certain amount of enemies to progress forward. Exploration's pacing shouldn't be hindered by that sort of thing. If you can get past enemies by smartly evading attacks, that SHOULD be one of many ways to play the game. You shouldn't be FORCED into combat.

And that being said, I LOVE the look of Bloodborne. Victorian horror.... I'm not shy about wanting a CV that goes full on with THIS kind of setting!

[Lelygax]

Why someone removed this post from Nagumo and moved it to the Library?

If I recall correctly, Walter's mother, who is named Bianca in the manga, at some point almost dies while she is pregnant with him, attempts to make a deal with a demon in order to save her life in exchange for her baby. But as it turns out, baby Walter made a deal with the demon first, so his mother dies in his stead and he is born as a vampire. It's pretty awesome.

It was interesting after all... 

[Dremn]

Seeing the more recent footage of Bloodborne from Gamescon, I totally get what you mean.

Bloodborne - Official Gamescom Demo Gameplay: Full Play-thru | PS4 Exclusive Action RPG

 I really disliked the whole "tank enemies" of the LoS games. You look at the footage here and a lot of the more common enemies go down with a couple(three at max) hits, while larger enemies take more hits. That's how it should be in 3D CV games, at least IMO. Battling shouldn't be based on pulling off ultra-impressive mega combo chains(which is the reason enemies have such high HP), but should be more strategic where enemies are more dangerous but most common ones can be taken out quickly for players that think smart. To me, that's like a 3D evolution of 2D strategy regarding action platforming. Know how to lure enemies away from areas where they might hit you off, or time patterns and attacks to not get hit. To me, what let me down with LoS and IGA's 3D CVs were the whole arena battles where exploration is haulted until you defeat a certain amount of enemies to progress forward. Exploration's pacing shouldn't be hindered by that sort of thing. If you can get past enemies by smartly evading attacks, that SHOULD be one of many ways to play the game. You shouldn't be FORCED into combat.

And that being said, I LOVE the look of Bloodborne. Victorian horror.... I'm not shy about wanting a CV that goes full on with THIS kind of setting!

Just create a game like this with a bigger emphasis on platforming and it's Castlevania.

[EisaKrieger]

I don't think realistic should be an issue regarding a demon castle that can take many forms. What I liked about Olrox's Quarters in SotN was that to reach him, it was almost tailored for a vampire(long vertical shaft in the ceiling). Similar to the "heart" in the center. It's layout should act as an obstical in itself. Besides, I'm kinda sick of realistically designed locations. Dracula's castle isn't meant to entertain human guests. It should fit him and his monstrosities in a similar fashion the subterranean caverns in The Descent best fit those "Crawlers", not the human explorers.

Sorry, castles that aren't handicap accessible are deemed politically incorrect and not marketable to the mainstream.

Anyway, there's a couple interesting castles I visited and went on behind the scenes tours, especially the the one Mercer built for his home.  There's some pretty unaccommodating narrow towers where you step across gaps from doorway to doorway a good bit above the winding steps below.  He actually didn't have real architectural training so he worked more like an artist with cement.  And I guess if it was traversable or comfortable to him, he thought it was OK and he didn't have to obey a hundred more years worth of building codes and laws we have now.   Despite being a sizable castle there's actually no big expansive rooms.  There is a lot more room in his museum castle though....  and furniture nailed to the ceiling.

[zangetsu468]

The issue with making a decent 3d Castlevania? I've yet to play a 3d CV game which (N64 games aside) captures the spirit and the gameplay of CV, translated into 3d. (I only emphasise 3d because of the current market trend for mainstream titles)

Notice with 3d CV, there's never been candlewhipping in the air, no real use of Medusa heads and no plummeting to one's untimely demise when one falls into pits. (lest N64)

The biggest element of CV was always its platforming, and the concept of verticality at a 2d level, and enemies, (Medusa heads, Winged Skeletons etc) attacking, subweapons and so forth being accessible between platforms. I feel much of these concepts have been lost in the realm of 3d, and we receive much less of the enemies (bats medusas etc) and concepts (pits, spikes, candles) which relate to oldschool CV in newer iterations of the franchise.

Please just steer the series away from being wholeheartedly combat based. Combat is good, but CV is not a combat game, it's an action platformer. Not a combat or action game with platforming thrown in.
Why can't there be a game where you're teetering or hanging on a thin ledge and having to whip medusa heads?
Why the lack of verticality and no elements like superjump in previous 3dvanias?
Why is Dracula a sad, misunderstood protagonist all of a sudden? (and why is he Irish?)
Nobody wants to see Belmonts having domestics within an uninspired storyline (MOF, looking at you)
You know that DMC4 boss, the saviour? As a boss fight that feels more like a 3d Castlevania than any other CV game. (Eligor in OOE springs to mind)
Take the positive elements of LOI and LOS' gameplay and use them, because they are good games.

My advice, and I've said it before: continue the original canon in 2d. Continue LOS or whatever new canon in 3d. This maximises the fan base and keeps the hardcore fans happy. The hardcore fans are over it, Zelda got SS and HH for its 25th anniversary, Castlevania got DLC, which should have been free of charge.

Don't piss off your hardcore fans konami, because unless you make another LOS, WE are all you have left for Castlevania.

[theplottwist]

The issue with making a decent 3d Castlevania? I've yet to play a 3d CV game which (N64 games aside) captures the spirit and the gameplay of CV, translated into 3d. (I only emphasise 3d because of the current market trend for mainstream titles)

Notice with 3d CV, there's never been candlewhipping in the air, no real use of Medusa heads and no plummeting to one's untimely demise when one falls into pits. (lest N64)

The biggest element of CV was always its platforming, and the concept of verticality at a 2d level, and enemies, (Medusa heads, Winged Skeletons etc) attacking, subweapons and so forth being accessible between platforms. I feel much of these concepts have been lost in the realm of 3d, and we receive much less of the enemies (bats medusas etc) and concepts (pits, spikes, candles) which relate to oldschool CV in newer iterations of the franchise.

Please just steer the series away from being wholeheartedly combat based. Combat is good, but CV is not a combat game, it's an action platformer. Not a combat or action game with platforming thrown in.
Why can't there be a game where you're teetering or hanging on a thin ledge and having to whip medusa heads?
Why the lack of verticality and no elements like superjump in previous 3dvanias?
Why is Dracula a sad, misunderstood protagonist all of a sudden? (and why is he Irish?)
Nobody wants to see Belmonts having domestics within an uninspired storyline (MOF, looking at you)
You know that DMC4 boss, the saviour? As a boss fight that feels more like a 3d Castlevania than any other CV game. (Eligor in OOE springs to mind)
Take the positive elements of LOI and LOS' gameplay and use them, because they are good games.

My advice, and I've said it before: continue the original canon in 2d. Continue LOS or whatever new canon in 3d. This maximises the fan base and keeps the hardcore fans happy. The hardcore fans are over it, Zelda got SS and HH for its 25th anniversary, Castlevania got DLC, which should have been free of charge.

Don't piss off your hardcore fans konami, because unless you make another LOS, WE are all you have left for Castlevania.

Do you know what would work to translate it to the 3D world? Metroid Other M's system.

Metroid Other M has platforming, had the combat, has the map exploration, everything.
Castlevania COULD borrow from this, and finally make it's glorious transition to 3D while looking badass as hell.

And of course, this would be the second time that Castlevania borrows something from Metroid xD

Also, I don't know about you guys, but I actually love how the Belmonts whip in Judgment. That game may have been... Odd... But it sure got it's whipping right in a 3D plane.

Take that, add buttons in place of nonsense wrist movements, put the character inside Metroid Other M's framework, BAM! Badass 3D Castlevania is born.

[zangetsu468]

Do you know what would work to translate it to the 3D world? Metroid Other M's system.

Metroid Other M has platforming, had the combat, has the map exploration, everything.
Castlevania COULD borrow from this, and finally make it's glorious transition to 3D while looking badass as hell.

And of course, this would be the second time that Castlevania borrows something from Metroid xD

Also, I don't know about you guys, but I actually love how the Belmonts whip in Judgment. That game may have been... Odd... But it sure got it's whipping right in a 3D plane.

Take that, add buttons in place of nonsense wrist movements, put the character inside Metroid Other M's framework, BAM! Badass 3D Castlevania is born.

You know what, as many things as Other M didn't achieve, the gameplay was spot on (although I would replace the waggle-dodge with a backflip if possible) and I have actually voiced the same idea around 2 years ago.
Why can't Castlevania work following the same environmental 'planar' format? This way the game would be more about landing jumps, backflips and timing whip attacks, rather than trying to string combos together.
In fact, two games spring to mind for 3d Castlevania: Other M and Gauntlet 3d. I always thought a 3d CV should be more zoomed out, almost more like its 2d brethren. 
Beh.. Maybe some day they will get it right.