Topic: If Soma Could Absorb The Soul of a Belmont, What Type Would This Soul Be?

[zangetsu468]

It specifically does say that each slain vampire's soul adds to the power of Dracula (not Mathias) so it implies to me he took the name long before his war on humanity. That's my opinion. The war on humanity came after. Needing Death to do it for him or not doesn't really make a difference imo. Death can be revived at any time by him. By the time if POR Dracula is obviously strong enough to absorb souls (even Death's) without aide. 

The only difference between Lord of the Vampires and Dark Lord imo is that post-Lisa's death (CVIII) he wages his war on humanity, that's the essential difference. Everything else is white noise.

On a side note if Dracula's soul is absorbed into the CS over and over, it wouldn't be Death doing it for him, in nearly every CV game Death is defeated shortly prior to Dracula. Dracula would be absorbing his own soul over and over again.

[theplottwist]

It specifically does say that each slain vampire's soul adds to the power of Dracula (not Mathias) so it implies to me he took the name long before his war on humanity.

Which I'm also not disputing. Dracula had a wife and named his son with "Tepes". Mathias obviously named himself "Dracula" before his war on mankind. Perhaps even centuries before his war on mankind.

The only difference between Lord of the Vampires and Dark Lord imo is that post-Lisa's death (CVIII) he wages his war on humanity, that's the essential difference. Everything else is white noise.

There is a very big difference between both, and being the Demon King is FAR from just "a vampire that wages war on mankind".

On the case of calling himself "Lord of Vampires, King of the Night", it is Mathias who calls himself like that. It's a title. If he has the power to back it up, it still doesn't mean he's the Demon King. It only means he's a very powerful vampire who has named himself the Lord of Vampires.

Now, being the Demon King/Dark Lord is a completelly different beast. It's a position atop the demonic hierarchy granted to the one who possesses the power of Dominance - as seen in Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow. It's a power to rule over ALL demons, not only vampires, by enslaving their souls using said Dominance. As Soma states in Aria, it's "the power to rule", which sends Graham in a flying panic. Having a connection to Chaos is also important, though I don't know to what extent exactly.

If one wants or not to wage war on mankind with this power, it's irrelevant. What makes the Demon King is his will to rule over demons and become the opposite of good - the entire plot which the Sorrow games revolves around. Dmitrii, also, arrives at the same conclusion after learning that one doesn't need to be Dracula to be the Dark Lord, he only needs the Dominance, and to gain control over demons with it.

The japanese term (魔王 Maō) used to name Dracula is the same term for "Satan", btw, which caused some mishaps as translating the "Dark Lord Ring" as "Satan's Ring" and causing people to believe there actually is a Satan to whom Dracula responds to, when in fact the ring belongs to Dracula, and he responds to no one.

The manual for The Adventure also makes a clear distinction between Dracula as a powerful vampire sorcerer and as a Demon King.

On a side note if Dracula's soul is absorbed into the CS over and over, it wouldn't be Death doing it for him, in nearly every CV game Death is defeated shortly prior to Dracula. Dracula would be absorbing his own soul over and over again.

I don't know where did you get that Dracula's soul is absorbed into the Crimson Stone over and over, but IGA has already said when Dracula is defeated, his soul is sent to the Makai (Demon Realm).

[zangetsu468]

Which was why I said "if" as this was thought to be the case some time ago by certain theorists. Just because it is in the makai, doesn't mean it can't be absorbed by him with the stone upon re-entry to the human realm. Anythings possible, some people are inside the box, others are outside playing a little game of what-if..

OOE may shows us this with the vessel that contains Dracula's soul. By that logic it can't be in the "makai" but be in a vessel, yet here we are. Or if one believes it can, then this is no different from being in a stone and in the makai, ya dig.

[theplottwist]

Which was why I said "if" as this was thought to be the case some time ago by certain theorists. Just because it is in the makai, doesn't mean it can't be absorbed by him with the stone upon re-entry to the human realm. Anythings possible, some people are inside the box, others are outside playing a little game of what-if..

OOE may shows us this with the vessel that contains Dracula's soul. By that logic it can't be in the "makai" but be in a vessel, yet here we are. Or if one believes it can, then this is no different from being in a stone and in the makai, ya dig.

The last to defeat Dracula before OoE was Alucard. In the Audio Drama description for Alucard it's stated that he sealed Dracula. This could be why Dracula is sealed inside that vessel. The fact that Dracula's remains also are in that vessel, and that they were last seen in Alucard's possession gives credence to this.

If it's inside a stone vessel, then it obviously is not in the Demon Realm. It appears that getting sealed inside that stone vessel is NOT something that seems to occur naturally to Dracula's soul.

I thought it was logical to think that IF something doesn't happen to this soul (such as being sealed in a stone vessel), then the natural course of things dictates that this soul be sent to the Demon Realm. This is what I understood by IGA's statement, anyway.

Because it is sealed in that vessel in OoE, doesn't mean it ALWAYS gets sealed in a vessel every time.

[zangetsu468]

I'm not sure why if Alucard s Dracula in SOTN why would he need to 'seal Dracula/ his remains"?
I'm assuming by remains it's referring to the relics named after Dracula such as "heart of Vlad"
It doesn't make sense Alucard would need to seal Dracula after the final battle, as Alucard Richter and Maria all leave.

I always assumed since you need those relics to enter the final room they actually had something to do with Dracula's resurrection. In that case, having Dracula's remains after the final battle wouldn't make sense. OOE also doesn't mention Dracula's remains, it mentions Ecclesia/ Barlowe having the vessel to Dracula's soul, which Barlowe initially believes can only be broken with Dominus. I don't recall remains being mentioned per se.

Is this radio thing even canon?



'

[theplottwist]

I'm not sure why if Alucard s Dracula in SOTN why would he need to 'seal Dracula/ his remains"?

There is something missing there, I believe it's the word "defeats".

Well, Alucard wants to rid the world from his father. Makes perfect sense for him to actually seal Dracula in a form where he can't be revived, or seal Dracula's remains somewhere where nobody can touch them without an enormous effort.

It doesn't make sense Alucard would need to seal Dracula after the final battle, as Alucard Richter and Maria all leave.

To me, it does. We have no idea what happened offscreen, sealing Dracula's remains and soul in a vessel could be one such thing.

OOE also doesn't mention Dracula's remains, it mentions Ecclesia/ Barlowe having the vessel to Dracula's soul, which Barlowe initially believes can only be broken with Dominus. I don't recall remains being mentioned per se.

Albus: Half-right. But think about it: where does a Glyph's power come from?  Nothing comes from nothing, after all. What do you suppose Barlowe used to create his precious [Dominus]?

Shanoa: Hmph... What?

Albus: They used [Dracula], Shanoa. [Dominus] is made from his remains. That's HIS power. Nothing less.

Shanoa: [Dominus] is...? It can't be true.

Is this radio thing even canon?

I believe it is, since it had the supervision of IGA and deals with/references events imediatelly following Symphony of the Night. It's not present in any official timeline, however. But so is the case with Order of Ecclesia.

[zangetsu468]

... It can't be true?

Good finds 

[Nagumo]

These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula). They fancied up the English translation a little bit by giving Mathias these two fancy titles. However, I do think this doesn't make plottwist's point invalid. Everybody assumes the bit that says Mathias becomes the Dark Lord took place inbetween LoI and CV3, with a large chunck of time before and after, but this event might very well have taken place shortly before the latter. In fact, it makes more sense that way to me.

[TatteredSeraph]

These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula).

Technically, 'Dracula' means 'Son of the Devil'/'Son of the Dragon'.  It's interesting though to see the differences.  Thanks!

[zangetsu468]

So are we all in agreement then that the English version is never canon, ever? Even if there's a FIRE!

[theplottwist]

These type of discussion always makes me want to check out the Japanese dialogue of the games. And as usual my detective work shed some light on a certain matter. The ending narration from LoI simply says Dracula eventually called himself Maō and Devil (Dracula). They fancied up the English translation a little bit by giving Mathias these two fancy titles. However, I do think this doesn't make plottwist's point invalid. Everybody assumes the bit that says Mathias becomes the Dark Lord took place inbetween LoI and CV3, with a large chunck of time before and after, but this event might very well have taken place shortly before the latter. In fact, it makes more sense that way to me.

I'll end up getting a sum of money to pay you and Shiroi to translate everything from A to Z in these games. I really do not understand why in freaking hell these localization teams keep getting these details wrong or adding unecessary flourishes to them. Changing this ONE line in english changed the whole idea.

But yeah, if he ended as the Dark Lord, it makes more sense to be just before Castlevania III. This is in accordance with Castlevania III itself and The Adventure (and maybe with Curse of Darkness, too), as they do mention Dracula's turning into the Devil happening just before his war on mankind.

So are we all in agreement then that the English version is never canon, ever? Even if there's a FIRE!

Seems to be the case. The localization team seem to never respect the true intention of the creators when it comes to Castlevania, after all.

[zangetsu468]

Seems to be the case. The localization team seem to never respect the true intention of the creators when it comes to Castlevania, after all.

This is why for every game with an ounce of story, the original Japanese version (voices, script, etc) with properly translated English should be made available. That or don't butcher the canon.

[theplottwist]

I like to think of Dracula as what happens to Soma in the bad ending of Dawn.

He had the potential to become the Dark Lord, but wouldn't do it. He'd walk in the edge of becoming evil incarnate, but not do it for the little bit of humanity that still existed inside him - humanity that led him to open his heart for Lisa.

But just as Lisa is killed, Dracula loses his shit and climbs that last little step that was keeping him from becoming the Dark Lord. Just like Soma does upon witnessing "Mina" die by Celia's hand.

[Dracula9]

I like to think of Dracula as what happens to Soma in the bad ending of Dawn.

He had the potential to become the Dark Lord, but wouldn't do it. He'd walk in the edge of becoming evil incarnate, but not do it for the little bit of humanity that still existed inside him - humanity that led him to open his heart for Lisa.

But just as Lisa is killed, Dracula loses his shit and climbs that last little step that was keeping him from becoming the Dark Lord. Just like Soma does upon witnessing "Mina" die by Celia's hand.

I actually have this long-time desire to do an animation of Dracula going berserk and attacking the village that executed Lisa, butchering every single person there and razing the place to the ground, with the final shot being him finding and holding her charred body and shedding the last of his tears amidst flames and carnage.

Just when I've almost forgotten it, something always brings it back to memory, though this time was pretty straightforward.

[Belmontoya]

Do it. But with Sandlers Dracula.