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Offline Inccubus

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My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« on: February 24, 2016, 08:25:34 PM »
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So while commenting on Nagumo-chan's thread I started thinking about what the actual games and manuals tell us about the castlevania timeline prior to IGA taking the rains as series producer.

So I came up with my own interpretation based only on info from the original Japanese manuals and the in-game text. There are many details that even back then were being retconned on a regular basis. For example in 4 versions of CV1 the black mass ritual to resurrect Dracula is stated to take place in a ruined monastery, the Tower of Colbert, and at a ruined cathedral or not mentioned at all.

Anyway this is what I have so far:

AjDrac: [CV1 NES]
   • Legend of Dracula states that once every 100 years Dracula is resurrected by evil men.
   • The last time Dracula resurrected he was defeated by Christopher Belmont and laid to rest for 100 years.
   • A group of pagans performing a black mass to resurrect Dracula on the day of Easter by pouring human blood on his remains.
   • The black mass happens at an abandoned monastery outside the village.
   • Simon, descendant of the Belmont Clan, sets out  to Dracula's Castle armed with a whip possessing mysterious power that was passed down from his father.
AjDMSX: [VK MSX]
   • From the 1100s to the 1200s a group of Germanic immigrants build a new city in Europe after their ancient home is destroyed.
   • In the latter half of the 900s a Germanic society in Transylvania is unable to defend their town.
   • Legend of Christopher states that every 100 years Dracula is resurrected via a black mass conducted by evil men at a Carpathian tower where he was sealed away by Christopher.
   • Christopher sealed Dracula 100 years prior.
   • Simon, the descendant of Christopher, takes his father's "enchanted whip" to defeat Dracula at "the castle haunted by the evil spirits".
D2tAS: [CV2]
   • Takes place 7 years after AjDrac.
   • Dracula was defeated and laid to rest by Simon for 100 years.
   • Simon was injured during the fight with Dracula and his body has been deteriorating ever since.
   • Feeling death coming he visits the Belmont Family graveyard near Angel's Hill.
   • A mysterious woman appears and explains the curse and how to seal it away by burning Dracula's remains.
   • After explaining that this is the only way to seal Dracula forever she disappears into the mist.
   • Simon must collect Dracula's 5 body parts and purify them in fire on a hidden altar in the ruins of his Castle.
DDen: [CVtA GB]
   • No matter how many times Dracula returns he is always defeated by Simon Belmont. O_o
   • Dracula has existed far longer than the first confrontation. (CV1?)
   • Dracula was an evil sorcerer and demon worshiper who built a castle on the outskirts of Transylvania.
   • As a sorcerer, Dracula performed evil rituals and summoned demons while seeking to gain "eternal life by becoming a demon king possessing evil powers".
   • Dracula has been spreading fear and terror to the people of "the village".
   • Christopher, an ancestor of the Belmont Family, goes to confront the now transformed Dracula.
AjDen: [CV3]
   • Setting: 15th century Europe.
   • Vlad Tepes lived on the outskirts of Transylvania in Wallachia and was no longer human.
   • Vlad reached the pinnacle of his power and revived dark gods/evil deity who granted him  power to terrorize the nation of Wallachia and planned to take over Europe.
   • The church sent an army to stop Vlad, who called himself Dracula, but none returned.
   • The pope called on Sypha Fernandez, Grant Dinesti, and Alucard to take on the task, but they were not heard from either.
   • Sypha is an apprentice monk, seeking to become a priest, with magical powers over fire, lightning, and ice.
   • Grant is a Wallachian rebel opposed to Dracula.
   • Alucard is Dracula's own son turned into a vampire by his father.
   • In desperation the Pope then decided to call on the Belmont Clan who had been known vampire hunters for many generations.
   • The Belmonts were feared for their powers and had lived far away from common people who treated them no better than the vampires they hunted.
   • But the Pope located a young man named Ralph C. Belmont.
   • The battle between mankind and Dracula begins more than 100 years before Simon.
AjDSNES: [CV1 SNES]
   • Simplified version of the story with less detail, but without any contradictions.
   • Instead of the blood ritual it only mentions a bolt of lightning.
DDen2: [CV2 GB]
   • Dracula was not defeated by Christopher, but is unable to reform after turning into mist so he bides his time.
   • 15 years later in a Transylvanian village Christopher's son, Soleiyu, has come of age and is given the title of vampire hunter.
   • The next day Soleiyu disappears.
   • That night 4 castle appear.
   • Dracula had taken Soleiyu and using his waning powers put him under a curse in an attempt to use his power to fully restore his body.
   • Christopher goes to rescue his son and put an end to Dracula.
AjDX: [CVDX PCE]
   • Rondo of Blood only has a basic story that states that this is a resurrection after 100 years.
   • Manual states that Dracula is "800 (?)" years old.
AjDX68k: [CV1 X68000]
   • Near identical to AjDrac, but cleaner and the black mass is now held in a ruined cathedral.
   • It includes the bolt of lightning added to the SNES version.
Bloodlines:
   • Dracula was put to rest finally in 1897 by Quincy Morris, thus tying CV to "Dracula, The Undead".
   • The game is stated to take place in 1917.
AjDXX: [CVDX SNES]
   • States that the game takes place multiple centuries after Simon.
AjDX2: [SotN]
   • States that the end of AjDX takes place in 1792.
   • Is stated to take place itself 4 years after Rondo.

Timeline of Events:
Code: [Select]
game year (A.D.) cycle? sealed? Notes
Dracula Origin ~992 - - Based on Dracula being 800 years old according to AjDX.
Old town destroyed 950 to 999 - - Stated to be in the latter half of 10th century.
New city founded 1100 to 1299 - - Stated as taking place between 12th and 13th centuries.
AjDen 1434 to 1456 - Y Based on Christopher's possible age of 15 to 35 years old when Soleiyu is born.*
DDen 1470 Y - Based on DDen2 taking place 15 years after DDen.
DDen2 1485 - Y Based on AjDrac taking place 100 years after Christopher sealing Dracula.
AjDrac 1585 Y - Based on D2tAS taking place 7 years after AjDrac.
D2tAS 1592 - Y Based on AjDXX stating that it takes place "hundreds of years" after Simon.
Since it says hundreds it must be at least 200 years since the last sealing.
???? 1692 Y Y AjDXX causes there to be an unaccounted for gap here.
AjDX 1792 Y Y Stated as such in AjDX2.
AjDX2 1796 - Y Stated to take place 4 years after AjDX.
Dracula, the Undead 1897 Y Y Stated as such in Bloodlines.
Bloodlines 1917 - Y Stated as such in Bloodlines.
*In the 15th century adulthood was considered to be at 14 years old and "old age" was considered to start at 50 years old.

I should note that the way I did this is I worked my way backwards and used the time of Dracula's defeat / sealing away as the point I reference for the 100 year cycle.
An interesting thing about how this timeline fell into place is that it makes it such that Trevor / Ralph is actually Christopher's father.
Let me know what you guys think and if you find any mistakes don't hesitate to bring them up. :)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 07:27:51 PM by Inccubus »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 10:05:16 PM »
+1
Honestly this makes more sense to me than the official materials. That's some excellent work.

It also highlights how bad the official materials are, that a fan in a very small amount of time came up with something just as good if not better.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 12:42:28 AM »
+1
Quote
AjDX2: [SotN]
   • States that the end of AjDX takes place in 1792.
   • Is stated to take place itself 4 years after Rondo.

I though SotN was five years later. Didn't Richter disappear for a whole year before Alucard took to the castle to stop the madness? From what I've gathered of the in-game story, Richter vanishes in 1796, but the game takes place in 1797. Also good job on the pre-IGA timeline.
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Offline coinilius

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 01:21:58 AM »
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Very interesting reading!

Where would Legends fit into this scenario?  I mean, obviously it would still 'fit in' at the start of the series, but considering it was released in Japan in 1997, the same year SotN was released, and wasn't developed under the guidance of IGA, should it be considered as part of a pre-IGA timeline?

Offline Nagumo

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 11:16:04 AM »
+1
A small correction: "Tower of Colbert" is actually "Carpathian Tower". That makes more sense given the setting, doesn't it?  :)

This magazine advertisement places RoB one hundred years after Simon.

 

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 11:34:19 AM »
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I though SotN was five years later. Didn't Richter disappear for a whole year before Alucard took to the castle to stop the madness? From what I've gathered of the in-game story, Richter vanishes in 1796, but the game takes place in 1797. Also good job on the pre-IGA timeline.

Makes sense since it would  fit with the next cycle at 1897.

Where would Legends fit into this scenario?  I mean, obviously it would still 'fit in' at the start of the series, but considering it was released in Japan in 1997, the same year SotN was released, and wasn't developed under the guidance of IGA, should it be considered as part of a pre-IGA timeline?

Good question, I don't know if it would fit since the game says that Sonia is the first Belmont to fight Dracula while Akumajo Densetsu says that Dracula transformed his son in a vampire. We can account that its only telling us more about Dracula's past without saying when?
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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 05:47:30 PM »
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Very interesting reading!

Where would Legends fit into this scenario?  I mean, obviously it would still 'fit in' at the start of the series, but considering it was released in Japan in 1997, the same year SotN was released, and wasn't developed under the guidance of IGA, should it be considered as part of a pre-IGA timeline?

I had thought of this in passing but didn't go as far as checking the date of release. I am planning to have a look at it when I have chance. I suspect that fitting it in will require either retconning some of CV3 or it could help solidify some of the timing of events. So either it'll help or it'll be a pooch-screw.

EDIT: A thought occurred to me while explaining my timeline to a friend. The extra bits of info from the MSX game could have been an attempt to hint at the origin of the Belmonts.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 12:47:30 AM by Inccubus »
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 10:34:00 AM »
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My question is similar to coinilius's. Do you think the CV64 games could fit in there as well? I was thinking about that, and it might explain that weird discrepancy in the game where the game states Dracula revived after 100 years (in 1852) yet his last resurrection was in 1797. That's assuming the "pre-IGA timeline" used different dates than the ones IGA later came up with.

Offline Inccubus

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 06:16:38 PM »
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I hadn't thought of that one either. It's possible, I suppose. I have to look into it's story a bit more in depth, too.

I noticed something else last night while discussing this with my friend. The not-so-great mobile game, Order of Shadows, is stated to take place in the late 17th century. Since my current timeline has a gap in 1697 it could fit there easily even though it came out much later. It makes me wonder if the developer had something other than the official timeline in mind when they made that game.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 09:17:30 PM »
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I still like my "Triple Threat" model of timelines.

Main Canon, Gaidenverse, and Lords of Shadow. I suppose this could be a fourth timeline that somehow splinters off from the main canon much like my idea for a Gaidenverse did; that one began chronologically with Legends, but really started branching off from the main timeline with a version of Simon's Quest where Simon died at the end. This ended up leading to attempts to replace the Belmont family, which results in the creation of the Hunter Whip which wound up in the hands of the (completely seperate from the Belmonts) Baldwin family, who pass the HW to Nathan Graves, and the proper VK winds up in the hands of the Schneider family instead of the Morris family but it's even more desperate because there are no pure Belmonts left to carry on the mantle and...

*cough*

You get the idea I'm sure. I had it all worked out years ago.

It was awesome.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 09:54:59 AM »
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Quote
You get the idea I'm sure. I had it all worked out years ago.

It was awesome.

Did you not write it down anywhere?
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 12:51:28 PM »
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Did you not write it down anywhere?

I actually wrote down EVERYTHING, and y'all got a good look at my Gaidenverse timeline when I ran that "Hunter Whip" thread a month or so back.

Gonna take this opportunity to tighten up the formatting of this diagram while I'm at it.

Bloody Rayne's Gaidenverse Alternate Timeline


  [Vampire Killer is somehow created]
                         |
                         |
                         V
                 Sonia Belmont
                         |
                         |
                         V
               [Sonia's son]
                         |
                         |
                         V
[Unknown : Possibly Christopher?]
                         |
                         |
                         V
                Simon Belmont
                         |
                         |
                         V
[Curse kills Simon/Alucard kills Richter] -------> [Hunter Whip is created]
                         |                                                                 |
                         |                                                                 |
                         X                                                                V
               [No Direct Heir]-------->Schneider family        Morris Baldwin
                                                          |                                |
                                                          |                                |
                                                          V                               V
                                             Reinhardt Schneider        Nathan Graves
                                                          |                                |
                                                          |                                |
                                                          V                               V
                                            [unknown successor]   [Unknown Successor]
                                                             


As you can see, there's a whole lot of space to fit all the non-canon games into a single, cohesive timeline in which versions of of a few key events we already know also play out, but end differently, explaining why the main Belmont family seems to be dwindling (or gone altogether) by the time the 1800's roll around. Simply put, it could be that Simon doesn't cure the curse (most likely in my mind) or, alternately, that Alucard killed Richter at the end of Symphony (a little less likely but still plausible in an alternate timeline). It could have been something else, but if we assume that either Simon's Quest's or Symphony's events transpired and merely ended differently, these would be the most vulnerable points in the bloodline; that being said, there's no reason to suggest either one even happened in this timeline, and the cause of the Belmont family's degredation might have been something else entirely.

All that's for sure is that the primary bloodline seems to have ended, causing the whip to pass to the Schneiders. Ancillary materials suggested that Michael Gelhart Schneider (Reinhardt's father in the original game) possessed the whip, but it's unclear if he used it or not, so I'm operating under the assumption that Reinhardt is the first of his line to use it.

As the VK is passing to the Schneider clan, an organization similar to those described in the preamble to Order of Ecclesia manages to use some sort of alchemical or magical process to create their own version of the Vampire Killer that isn't bound to a particular family line and grows in strength as the wielder uses it while being able to adapt and change forms when combined with powerful magic artifacts such as the DSS cards (or whatever they might be meant to represent as a gameplay convention).

So we're left with an alternate turn of events in which there are no pure Belmonts left with at least one known family of heirs who are "imperfect" but are now the best choices left in the phone book, as it were, while a panicked world tries to come up with some sort of replacement before the forces of Darkness kill everyone.

Cheery place, this Gaidenverse.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 01:51:12 PM by The Bloody Rayne »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline X

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 10:34:20 AM »
0
What about Bram Stoker's Dracula and CV Bloodlines? Neither of which is IGA implemented.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2016, 02:05:29 PM »
0
What about Bram Stoker's Dracula and CV Bloodlines? Neither of which is IGA implemented.

Honestly, as I think beingthehero pointed out (or was it Diplo?) back when I was on the Anti-Chapel, the relation given between Bram Stoker's D and Bloodlines makes no damn sense. Given the age of Johnny Morris during Bloodlines and how old Quincy is, Quincy would have had to have been married (or VERY naughty by his era's standards) 3 or so years prior to Dracula, which doesn't agree with his description in the novel (Johnny would have been 2-3 during the time of the novel).

If anything, Dracula and Bloodlines can only be connected via a very liberal broad strokes interpretation of the former.

It's also worth noting that Bloodlines was originally marketed as a Gaiden game that was never supposed to fit in with an official timeline. I should work on figuring out how it might fit into my Gaidenverse timeline....  ;D
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: My take on a Pre-IGA timeline
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 12:58:38 AM »
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I don't believe I let this thread slide. Oh well.

ANYWAY I'd just like to ask: Have you considered the ingame sprite of CVII for Dracula's tombstone? It shows Dracula's birth to have been in 1431, and death to have been in 1476.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:05:04 AM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.


Tags: IGA Timeline theory 
 

anything