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Offline HeartOfFire

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What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:42:14 PM »
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Hey guys. Relatively new Castlevania fan here. Started with Aria of Sorrow 4 years ago, loved it, but never got the chance to play anything else. About a month ago I started with a binge starting with Circle of the Moon, then Harmony of Dissonance (gave up a bit through because I don't like the two worlds mechanic and I felt that I didn't understand/know about some mechanics, but I'll likely go back because Juste Belmont is a beautiful man), Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, and Portrait of Ruin which I finished last night.

I started Ecclesia last night and I'm super not impressed by it. Portrait took some time to grow on me but I wound up loving it about halfway through. Ecclesia just feels...off. I do love the art, the plot is good, and I do like the idea of a hub world. However, some of the controls feel kinda wonky, and the level design so far is just...bad. I'll admit to not getting very far (I just got to the Prison Island), but there are some levels that are literally just...a single long flat corridor. The amount of exploration you can do in the game seems to be crazy minimalistic compared to the other two DS games, and even though Portrait of Ruin had its own smaller areas, they were nowhere near THIS small. The difficulty also seems to be ramped up QUITE a bit, and I'm really iffy on regular attacks having a cooldown.

Does the game get better with time? I don't hate it, I'm just disappointed that it didn't seem to grow on the past games, and instead almost moved backwards a few steps.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 01:23:38 PM »
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Hello!

Order of Ecclesia is definitelly the most linear Metroidvania from IGA. Hence the at-times unimaginative level design.

That said, Ecclesia is often hailed as IGA's best work, exactly because it tries returning to CV's roots as a combat+platforming focused game. So, at the beginning of the game you'll face challenges on mostly unchallenging environment, but this will change slowly as you progress. Near the end of the game you'll have a much more varied level-design mixed with pretty hard combat.

So, does it get better? To me, at least, it did. When I reached the point where I had enough MP that I could keep the flow of combat going, that is when the game caught me. And I learned to like it on its entirety across the years.

Quote
and I'm really iffy on regular attacks having a cooldown.

This isn't a novelty to Ecclesia, y'know? Most Castlevanias have a cooldown. The difference is that, while on other Vanias the cooldown is spaced evenly between attacks. Shanoa's cooldown accumulates in the form of MP recharging. Meaning that, while she can attack REALLY fast if you alternate the buttons, the "cooldown" will be greater when you wish to replenish all MP.

So, try to keep a rhythm to the attacks, and you'll see you'll rarely run out of enough MP that it becomes dangerous.
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Offline HeartOfFire

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2018, 03:04:00 AM »
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You're right; my issue was with the expectations of the game I had going in.

I'm enjoying it a lot more now that I'm keeping in mind that it's focusing more on the combat than the exploration.


I was mostly salty that the Giant Skeleton kept kicking my ass.

Offline Zuljaras

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2018, 04:45:53 AM »
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For me it is extremely nice CV game. As a person that played most Metroidvania games I really liked the different areas linked in more linear way. It was nice experience and I love the New Game + and the collection of items and stuff. Doing the quests and gaining the boss medals.

The ONLY thing I do NOT like is that the Giant skeleton boss was refurbished as normal enemy later in the game. That is one of the reasons I did not like Aria's first 4 bosses. They were rehashed in the end and it was just lazy. A boss should have its own unique graphics and abilities.
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Offline X

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 10:06:29 AM »
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Quote
The ONLY thing I do NOT like is that the Giant skeleton boss was refurbished as normal enemy later in the game. That is one of the reasons I did not like Aria's first 4 bosses. They were rehashed in the end and it was just lazy. A boss should have its own unique graphics and abilities.

To be fair Aria wasn't the only game that did this. I recall in SotN there was a boss character that appeared again as a standard enemy in the inverted castle. Also in the original Castlevania the Phantom Bat boss is used again as a regular enemy on the bridge segment for stage 6.
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Offline Zuljaras

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 05:24:16 AM »
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To be fair Aria wasn't the only game that did this. I recall in SotN there was a boss character that appeared again as a standard enemy in the inverted castle. Also in the original Castlevania the Phantom Bat boss is used again as a regular enemy on the bridge segment for stage 6.

Yes. Couple of Castlevania games do this unfortunately.

That is why I love the uniqueness of the bosses in:
- Circle of the Moon
- Harmony of Dissonance
- Dawn of Sorrow
- Portrait of Ruin
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 03:47:43 AM »
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I don't believe OOE has less platforming than previous CV's.
POR had barely any platforming through the main castle and few areas where the platforms weren't static, DoS platforming was more of the same but at least there were areas here and there where the floor would break from beneath you (boss fight) or where you had to use that doll-throw technique to access an area, and so forth. AoS had more platforming than PoR or DoS, particularly in the clock tower and coliseum where enemies (demons) strike downward through the entire screen, and that optional area where you stand on the platform and follow the d-pad directions, not to mention the backdash puzzle which grants you the whip-sword and accessing the waterfall via Soma transforming into a demon (Curly, for example).

OOE I would say moreso than the above CV's. Magnus is more versatile than Super jumping and actually requires skill, there's a whole underwater platforming area with bombs you have platforming during multiple boss battles, the challenge areas, the glyphs which involve absorbing at the correct time, and the fact that some of the platforming increases in difficulty on the hardest setting (the likes of which were not seen since LOD).
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Offline VladOfWallachia

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 04:29:57 PM »
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I wasn't too fond of OoE either. The level design was often bad (very long corridors with nothing but repetitive enemy spawn points) and the combat isn't interesting enough on its own either. Additionally, the heroine is fairly weak and you have to either grind(boring) or fight bosses that are super simple but are basically damage sponges with a ton of health(also boring).

I did like how they went back to a darker tone and art style for OoE, as I think the brightly colored anime art style of DoS and PoR was a poor fit for the series.

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Re: What's the deal with Order of Ecclesia?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 07:12:46 PM »
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I loved the darker tone/art and more challenging bosses.  I don't think I've ever really disliked any CV game I've played, but some of the handheld titles of that time (HoD, AoS, PoR, etc..  Even the console titles in that era...) seemed easy -- I felt like they ended too quick because I just killed everything without much trouble (like having the Crissagrim in SotN or something).  I felt like I had to play more carefully and strategically with OoE, and I ended up really appreciating that.

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