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Offline zangetsu468

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The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« on: December 27, 2018, 06:38:49 AM »
For my final post, I go back to a previous thread that was started by me:

I maintain that a version of events occurred prior to the player's 'play through' of OOT. This event I called the Ocarina of Time Prologue.

We know 3 timelines exist as well as the following:

- There's no evidence to suggest all 3 timelines don't exist concurrently, seeing as two definitely do and there's most evidence of BOTW existing in the Hero is Defeated Timeline.
- There is no reason for the Master Sword sealing Link's spirit for 7 years (due to his body not being old enough to wield it) other than it knew that Link would lose. Remembering that the MS is sentient.
- Rauru immediately knew why the MS sealed Link's spirit for 7 years, because his body wasn't ready to wield it.
- In the OOT ending, Child Link replaces the MS into the pedestal of time, meaning he was able to at least carry it and handle it without being phased. 
- Hyrule Historia states that Link challenged Ganondorf to a battle in the original timeline - Hero is Defeated(HID) Timeline - and lost.
- Following the Hero of Legend's defeat (previous point) Ganondorf acquired the whole Triforce from Link and Zelda becoming 'Ganon' (Pig Form) and the 7 sages sealed him, however, undefeated by Link.
- In OOT's Adult portion, Link had to awaken the sages because "evil was flowing from the temples" (Rauru's quote), aside from the Temple of Light, which is Rauru's temple.

My reasoning for the inclusion of the OOT Prologue is listed here, along with the timeline itself provided in the IG link:

- In the original/ HID Timeline in the OOT Prologue which happens prior to the game, Child Link challenged Ganondorf to a battle directly after withdrawing the blade from the pedestal of time. How. because Ganondorf followed him into the Temple of Time, just as he did in the actual play through.
- The Hero of Time's prophecy was made because the events had already happened, with only a select few recalling (Rauru, possibly adult Zelda, The MS and the Goddesses) the only sticking point being that he didn't succeed. The prophecy I'm referring to is reflected on the Temple of Time's pedestal which hold the 3 spiritual stones, once Adult Link touches it the text on the pedestal changes, stating that the "Hero of Time descended here".
- Given Child Link in theory within the OOT Prologue could draw the Master Sword, he could challenge Ganondorf as the Hero of Time, because Ganondorf didn't have 7 years to invade all of the temples/ areas and hence therr would be no 'evil flowing' which was blocking the 6 Sages (minus Rauru) from awakening. Therefore, I propose the Sages would have awoken automatically in the chamber of sages at the point when Child Link drew the Master Sword.
- Given the original (HID) HoT challenged Ganondorf and lost, it makes more sense for this to have happened as Child Link, given Adult Link is capable of defeating Ganondorf. (which makes sense, given the MS prevented his body from wielding it the next time around).
- Given the above point regarding the sages, this is why/ how Child Zelda was able to summon the sages in the HID timeline, and how they were able to seal Ganon prior to his wish on the Triforce materialising.
- Link awakening from a dream of Ganondorf on horseback at the beginning of OOT makes sense, given the end of the events of the hypothetical Prologue would have ended not long after.
- Why didn't Link recall his Prologue quest? Ganondorf had already become "Ganon", Ganon had gained the whole Triforce, link lost his piece (and Zelda lost hers). If Link gets sent back with no Triforce then everything resets, because he goes back into an alternate reality where nobody had gained the triforce. However, if Link retained his piece, we'd have the same scenario as the OOT Ending where Link, Zelda and Ganon all retain their respective pieces. The answer is in OOT's ending Link is recognised as the Hero of Time because he carries the Triforce of Courage, because he wields the MS. These make him the Hero of Time, so if he returns to the past with nothing then he returns with no recollection of what's happened previously. (This isn't farfetched when we consider that in TP all bearers of the Triforce gained protection from the Goddess of their respective piece, which prevented them from being consumed by the Twilight; by the same token, Farore likely protects Link as he travels through time, with the MS as the key to igniting the pedestal of time).
- In BOTW on the Zora Stone Tablets, Ruto is mentioned by name, but without any mention of Ganon's defeat, correlating with the proposed Prologue.
- The Prologue is why Child Zelda told Link his name sounded familiar and why Adult Zelda (Shiek) stated that while holding the MS Link looked "just like the Hero of Time".. Weird thing to say given he was never supposed to have existed before.
- There is a statue in Zelda II: AOL called "trophy", which in Japanese is called "Goddess Statue", implying that knowledge of the Goddess Hylia still existed all this time after OOT.
- The events of the OOT Prologue are the only way to reconcile ALTTP's backstory about how the Hylians created the MS, but no Hero appeared to wield it i.e. This is true if the Hero challenges Ganon, fails and disappears from the HID Timeline's reality. Note that in ALTTPFS where "wise men" were altered to "sages" this text remained unchanged.
- As BotW states, Link still fulfills his destiny as the Hero of Time not from defeating Ganon, but from the moment he draws the MS from the pedestal of time, this is why even the stone pedestal itself in the Adult timeline stated that the "Hero of Time" descended here.. He was already the Hero without having faced Ganondorf. The Hero was destined to withdraw the MS and awaken the sages (Which was supposed to happen automatically). Rauru states to Link in OOT" "Your power to fight together with the sages makes you the Hero of Time!"
- Rauru's speech in OOT to Link states "Only one worthy of the title of the Hero of Time can pull it (MS) from the pedestal of time... However, you were too young to be the Hero of Time".... How could he have known that unless an event had previously unfolded?
- Aside from the existence of the prologue itself, no assumptions are made and all evidence are taken directly from the game's events or script (text dump)

Assumptions based on what happens in-game/ text dump of OOT/ seen in other games:
1 - At the end of the Prologue, when Child Link is defeated by Ganon, Child Zelda plays the Ocarina of Time to send Link back to before his quest began. This isn't really an assumption given Zelda, the sage of time did this in OOT's ending because she felt bad for Link having lost 7 years of his youth. Note: Child Zelda would've automatically awoken as the Sage of Time in the Prologue.
2 - In the Prologue the sages automatically awoke and materialised accordingly in the Chamber of Sages. This explains why Zelda and Impa who were on horseback, were present during the HoT challenging Ganondorf and losing. No Evil flowing from the temples = Sages ahoy! ("Because of the evil power flowing from the temple she (Saria) cannot hear the awakening call from the Sacred Realm!" - Rauru, OOT)
3 - Either Zelda or Rauru after (1) placed the MS back in the pedestal of time, severing the door between times, now that Child Link had been sent back, creating two realities/ timelines as it did during the Child and Adult era(s) of OOT. This is by no means a stretch given we see Zelda place the MS back in its pedestal in BOTW and in TP, there's an engraving of Rauru holding the MS by its hilt

My IG links evidencing most of the quotes used in this post:

Why the OOT Prologue? Because it explains the existence of all 3 timelines and doesn't settle for an open-ended and non-definitive "what-if" Marvel scenario, it explains why there's no mention of a hero linked by blood in any subsequent game in the HID, while the Child and Adult timelines made specific mention of that, it explains the necessity for why the MS denied link to wield it straight away as a child, it demonstrates that Ganon was always destined to acquire the triforce in part, however, one timeline where the original Hero survived has always been more prosperous than the other two i.e. The Child Timeline: OOT>TP>FSA, and finally it reinforces the HID Timeline as the original timeline which created the other two timelines as a result of its existence.

Welp, this is my last post. Life is getting busy and I've had to make some decisions to be thrifty with time, as the last year has gone in the blink of an eye. As my last, I wanted to go back to a topic that I've been really passionate about for many years. 

For those who stayed in conversation and/ or debate with myself, thanks for the time spent with these forum walls.

All the best guys, take care.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:43:15 AM by zangetsu468 »

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Offline Super Waffle

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 12:54:23 AM »
Nintendo making the "timeline" stuff canon and caving into fan demand that doesn't really add anything to the games was the dumbest thing ever.

edit: no wait on second thought everything about Bowtow was the dumbest thing ever. But the timeline stuff is still the second dumbest thing.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 12:59:02 AM by Super Waffle »

Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2019, 12:01:41 PM »
You can always come back, y'know, Zangetsu.
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2019, 01:07:38 PM »
Hey man, see ya around. I hope you return to the Dungeon someday.
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Offline X

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Re: The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2019, 07:35:50 PM »
Pop in from time to time so we don't forget you  :)
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Re: The Legend of Zelda - OOT Prologue re: Hero is Defeated Timeline
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2019, 12:28:03 AM »
Damn, Zangetsu left? I wanted to say how this theory is is freaking damn near perfect and a much more satisfactory scenario than the half asses crap they put in HH.
It lines up with much of my own theory crafting and fills in the blanks I was having trouble with.
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