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Offline Lashen

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #240 on: March 18, 2020, 09:42:09 PM »
0
I don't know why people keep trying to make a sex + gore connotation. I'm not. These things are different, and would contribute differently. I don't think I'm morally superior (though the thing I said about kids is a little sad to me), I just think the show is bad. No, I probably still wouldn't like it if it were written in better, but there's an added sting in now poorly it's put together. That being said, SotN's content is a lot tamer than this. It's a bad comparison.
The sexual content is just too out of left field, drags on, and interrupts the only good fight in the season. Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame. Hector I presume would still be someone's boy slave. There would still be the hole full of dead little kids at the end because every good society figure is secretly evil. S1 and 2 weren't my cup of tea but Ellis really does seem like he lives for angst. I can't justify a guy who has never played the games writing for a video game adaptation greenlit by a company that doesn't care about its fans.

Now, I'm out. I'm sure everyone's fine with that. I'd only be repeating myself. If I go on this is going to condense itself to "it's bad," "no it's not."
I genuinely thought more people would share my opinion at the start of this. Thought wrong. Sorry I upset anyone or whatever you consider it.
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #241 on: March 19, 2020, 01:45:23 AM »
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Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame.

Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #242 on: March 19, 2020, 01:59:25 AM »
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Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

*Wandering around with a literal army of reanimated hellspawn, organ-spilling undead, and fly-eyed monstrosities*

*gets rejected*

Truly, nobody should have reliably anticipated this.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline Scarlet starlet

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #243 on: March 19, 2020, 07:11:48 AM »
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I don't know why people keep trying to make a sex + gore connotation. I'm not. These things are different, and would contribute differently. I don't think I'm morally superior (though the thing I said about kids is a little sad to me), I just think the show is bad. No, I probably still wouldn't like it if it were written in better, but there's an added sting in now poorly it's put together. That being said, SotN's content is a lot tamer than this. It's a bad comparison.
The sexual content is just too out of left field, drags on, and interrupts the only good fight in the season. Even without it Isaac would still be wandering around with a pack of hellspawn animated from the corpses of somebody's relatives trying to sound poetic like society is to blame. Hector I presume would still be someone's boy slave. There would still be the hole full of dead little kids at the end because every good society figure is secretly evil. S1 and 2 weren't my cup of tea but Ellis really does seem like he lives for angst. I can't justify a guy who has never played the games writing for a video game adaptation greenlit by a company that doesn't care about its fans.

Now, I'm out. I'm sure everyone's fine with that. I'd only be repeating myself. If I go on this is going to condense itself to "it's bad," "no it's not."
I genuinely thought more people would share my opinion at the start of this. Thought wrong. Sorry I upset anyone or whatever you consider it.

Don't worry bro we are on the same boat

Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #244 on: March 19, 2020, 10:31:02 AM »
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Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

I think that last sentence sums up the entire show quite nicely. There *are* good moments in the show, but overall, it's just not very good and many times, lacks what ultimately gave Castlevania its own identity in the first place.

Still, it could be loads worse, adaptations wise. It could be like the Star Wars Sequels. Urgh.
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Offline SecretWeapon

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #245 on: March 19, 2020, 11:12:16 AM »
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Haha, this nicely sums up why I thought Isaac's storyline fell flat. The idea is interesting but the execution just doesn't work.

I think that's the point of Isaac's plot though. He has a point but he is very wrong

Offline crisis

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #246 on: March 19, 2020, 11:37:37 AM »
+1
I thought the overall narrative in the Lords of Shadow series was far worse than what we’re watching now

I’m curious, have any of you read the Belmont Legacy limited comic book series?

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #247 on: March 19, 2020, 01:04:50 PM »
+2
I think that's the point of Isaac's plot though. He has a point but he is very wrong

I thought the point of Isaac's arc was to trying to make his character seem more complex and gray. The best way to achieve that is to make the audience relate to his character. However, if his position is completely unreasonable (which is the case considering how his scenes are written) there's no point to dwelling on it for so many scenes! It's a case of do it right or don't do it all.

I thought the overall narrative in the Lords of Shadow series was far worse than what we’re watching now

I’m curious, have any of you read the Belmont Legacy limited comic book series?

I've read it and I can't image anyone even remotely caring about it if it hadn't had the Castlevania brand. It doesn't have the same feel as the games (rising the question of to who it's supposed to appeal to) and taken on its own merits it's a completely unremarkable vampire story.

Having said that, I'd rather have a Belmont Legacy follow-up series than Castlevania Netflix season 4, but that's just me.  :)     

Offline SecretWeapon

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #248 on: March 19, 2020, 04:47:05 PM »
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I thought the point of Isaac's arc was to trying to make his character seem more complex and gray. The best way to achieve that is to make the audience relate to his character. However, if his position is completely unreasonable (which is the case considering how his scenes are written) there's no point to dwelling on it for so many scenes! It's a case of do it right or don't do it all.   

I think that's exactly why he's has a degree of gray though. We know he can be reasoned but he's not reasonable simultaneously because demons aren't good at all (like, without any shade of gray or racism there, they just aren't) yet he doesn't seem to truly rationalize that. Isaac is very much insane.

Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #249 on: March 19, 2020, 06:06:05 PM »
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It’s pretty clear to me that Isaac is changing from not just fanatically loyal to Dracula, but to crazy and unreasonable.  He’s getting more unstable, but rather than the camp, cackling evil he is in the game, this is a colder, quieter evil and insane, which is actually a much better take.  Yet at the moment at least, there is still something redeemable about him.  All round though it makes him a much more interesting and engaging character, more three dimensional as a person, as we see his descent, and see his journey as a character.  It’s something I like to see.

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Offline Sindra

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #250 on: March 20, 2020, 07:24:15 AM »
+4
Got my video put together that cites the references between season 3 of the show and the games, or what I found of them anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiB-g4PBM4w

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #251 on: March 20, 2020, 12:22:42 PM »
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I think that's exactly why he's has a degree of gray though. We know he can be reasoned but he's not reasonable simultaneously because demons aren't good at all (like, without any shade of gray or racism there, they just aren't) yet he doesn't seem to truly rationalize that. Isaac is very much insane.

It's also fair to point out that he's beginning from a place of hatred toward humanity, so of course he's going to make the worst of almost every single interaction he has and never consider why people are behaving the way that they are towards him. Those two things confirm his biases, which anyone who has gone through negative bias confirmation can attest, it can feel oddly satisfying, even good. Deep down, Isaac doesn't want to see things any other way, because that would require him to do two things he really doesn't want to do: admit he was wrong, and then change his ways.

He likes being who and what he is, so any evidence that he might be wrong gets marginalized or handwaved, and he overly fixates on how his treatment makes him feel rather than considering the reasons for it, and it's possible that he may be subconsciously choosing the path of worst resistance to confirm as many biases as possible so he can have "permission" to carry out his plans. He has also surrounded himself with servants who cannot disobey him AND tell him that he is right. The way Isaac is presented in this season is essentially a character study into human bigotry and intellectual fallacy, which is... timely, if nothing else.

When he dies, it won't be as a reformed villain, admitting he is wrong, but rather, seeing his death as simply the last piece of confirmation to his views, and I'd fully expect him to quote Nero: "Qualis artifex pereo!"/"What an artist dies in me!" He really does see himself as a sort of anti-hero, raging against a corrupt system. Of course he'd ignore evidence that the system isn't actually that corrupt. Isaac will not stand to have his internal narrative meaningfully challenged, condemning him with the Sin of Pride, and blocking him off from any sort of redemption.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 03:35:31 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline SecretWeapon

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #252 on: March 20, 2020, 08:02:04 PM »
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unrelated to the Isaac conversation but i was thinking about the zombie priest making the river holy water last season and thinking it was to some degree criticized for being anti God/religion but... if you think about it, God is supposed to be all knowing. By letting the zombie priest turn the river into holy water he destroyed both Dracula's and Carmilla's armies, which ultimately casued the death of a bunch of vampires, the generals and Drac himself. By destroying Carmilla's army she couldn't go through with her plan there, which caused this season events and will eventually lead to the destruction of the Styrian vampire court as well.


Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #253 on: March 20, 2020, 08:11:03 PM »
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[...] i was thinking about the zombie priest making the river holy water last season and thinking it was to some degree criticized for being anti God/religion

first i've heard, that's an interesting way to look at it i hadn't considered

though, i criticize it because an "unholy" undead creature being able to successfully bless anything with prayer doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so maybe it's a given i wouldn't have thought of that stance


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Re: Castlevania Season 3
« Reply #254 on: March 20, 2020, 09:52:43 PM »
+1
first i've heard, that's an interesting way to look at it i hadn't considered

though, i criticize it because an "unholy" undead creature being able to successfully bless anything with prayer doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so maybe it's a given i wouldn't have thought of that stance

🤷. We've fought several monsters with "holy" based power in the games.  Doesn't seem any different to me...

I think you have to look at it from a perspective of holy/of God =/= necessary good.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

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