Topic: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

[Pfil]

I'd like to state a difference from what I see it. Well, a difference from LoS, mind you 
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.
Dante is a different character, and it kind of rebooted the story.
But the look, music and gameplay stayed exactly as every Devil May Cry fan remembers it.
I never cared for Dante, so I didn't care for the change (I liked this Dante even less than the previous one).
I liked the story (but I also liked DMC3's story), and in terms of enjoyment this was the game I enjoyed the most on the series.
There were several times that I felt a little envy for DMC fans, because this is how a saga can be rebooted and still retain the identity.
It's what I personally see, and anyone can differ from my vision.
But I find DmC as the perfect example to refresh a franchise with respect for its name.

[Flame]

So Flame can see in SOTN Metroid elements but can't see the God of War/Uncharted/Shadow of Colossus in LoS?

EDIT: Nah, he can.

I see it. I see what people complain about. I just think it's unfair to bash it on that when CV has done it before. personally, i don't see GoW in LoS. I see Hack n' Slash, but not specifically Gow HnS.

Some have noted that having a Castlevania without (a) medusa (heads) is a lot like having a Mario game without mushrooms for example.

i have no problem with people feeling that way. What i DO have a problem with is people taking subjective measurements as to "what defines Castlevania" and applying to "why loS sucks" or why it "destroyed the franchise" and other inflammatory buzz I hear. it's fine if you don't like the game. Dont treat it as fact though. "IMO" isn't hard to type or get across.

The classic music was disregarded (even disrespected outside of the game) and the horror elements were largely thrown away

loS1 had plenty of Cv musical nods. I don't think we have to make a list for the Nth time. that said, sure, the music was a different style. it was more ambience "mood" music and had a more traditional orchestra feel, a movie orchestrated score feel. but subjectivity strikes again, i had no problem with it. CV with a completely different coat of musical paint? I'm game for that. they also remixed some of the more obscure themes (aside from VK)

Horror? perhaps not Gothic horror, or horror horror. CV was based around B movie horror, which later tried to go gothic horror. But you can't tell me some of the later games had ANY kind of horror feel to them at all. Aria was the last one to have a very thick gothic horror feel. LoI tried, but was really it's own beast. CoD... Erm. yeah. That's another one that doesn't have much gothic horror to it outside pipe organ scores. CV stopped feeling like horror of any kind. And started feeling like anime. Good quality gothic art anime for sure, but not nessecarily the kind of thing CV had been prior. Even Rondo who had anime cutscenes outright, had more of the classic B horror feel.

LoS certainly was NOT Horror. It was more dark fantasy. But i was ok enough with it to let it try it. And I can swallow the explanation of dark fantasy being the theme "pre-Dracula". MoF despite it's shortcomings though, definitely injected a much more gothic dose of horror into the game. And Carmilla's Castle in loS 1 was oozing with Castlevania feel. So they know how to make a gothic environment.

(click to show/hide)

I still don't see that as comparable. that was a lighthearted kiddie game to start and it became a grimdark super serious game. that's the WORST end of the spectrum. if you told me kid Dracula was going to be remade as a fps horror game and some shit, then ok. but LoS is really 9in my opinion) Classicvania in 3D, with a different coat of paint. it's hardly the massive blasphemic change it's made out to be.

Cox is Nic Caging Castlevania.

Well, Nic Cage's roles might be in bad movies, but at least he's a hell of a lot of fun to watch! And the guy DOES have some good acting chops in him. His role as Big Daddy in Kick Ass might be his greatest role ever.

I'd like to state a difference from what I see it. Well, a difference from LoS, mind you 
DmC is a perfect example of a reboot that has a high respect for the name it carries.
Dante is a different character, and it kind of rebooted the story.
But the look, music and gameplay stayed exactly as every Devil May Cry fan remembers it.
I never cared for Dante, so I didn't care for the change (I liked this Dante even less than the previous one).
I liked the story (but I also liked DMC3's story), and in terms of enjoyment this was the game I enjoyed the most on the series.
There were several times that I felt a little envy for DMC fans, because this is how a saga can be rebooted and still retain the identity.
It's what I personally see, and anyone can differ from my vision.
But I find DmC as the perfect example to refresh a franchise with respect for its name.

Really? I thought people hated DMC, if not for it's gameplay, for changing the character and turning him into the director.

also for this

DmC Devil May Cry Old Dante Easter Egg (DmC White Wig Hair Joke Cut scene) 【HD】

[Dark Nemesis]

*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?

But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

The map screen was almost identical as well in presentation.

SoTN, has the same game play style with Super metroid, the same map style, but it still has memorable music and not some generic style, it has classic and new enemies and none from other games, like Super Metroid, Alucard has an unique game play style, while Richter has the classic game play style, so i fail to see why it didn't do a good job, when aesthetic is still like previous games, music is one of the most memorable, difficulty, might not be it's strong point, scenario was good and the feeling, playing with Alucard, son of the Dracula back then, was amazing, at least for me. In general, it didn't go astray from what we knew about Castlevania..........on the other hand what Cox said for LoS, forget what you knew about Castlevania, i believe that it must be the only time he has spoken the truth.....

I see it. I see what people complain about. I just think it's unfair to bash it on that when CV has done it before. personally, i don't see GoW in LoS. I see Hack n' Slash, but not specifically Gow HnS.

Combat cross game play it's a rip-off from GoW dual chain blades game play and if you denied it, then i'm sorry, but either you haven't played GoW or you are blind or ignorant, because you can see the similarities that SoTN has with Super Metroid, but you can't see the GoW combat game play, when it's a copy paste?

[VladCT]

Better late than never I suppose, but...

[Dark Nemesis]

Better late than never I suppose, but...

If you got to do it, do it right:
Whitesnake - Here I Go Again '87

[Kale]

*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?

No? Not until that last line about childishness... that made it sound childish, but I didn't say that, so I guess I'm okay.

I don't get why people rag on LoS for being derivative, when SoTN did it too. So did Simon's quest. (except Simon's quest actually had deathtraps despite it) Vampire Killer was the game that managed to include RPG and Open world elements without feeling derivative. (And we might never know if it was inspired by Metroid, since despite being of the same year, they came out a few months apart, with metroid coming out first.) Simon's quest similarly, did not feel like it copied metroid, since it still followed classicvania gameplay despite being open world like metroid. And it's RPG elements were also pretty different from what Metroid did.

But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

I don't mind if a game copies things. It's something that happens a lot in ..... virtually everything. However, if you're going to copy, do it well, and/or improve on it. And the big one, don't copy something to the core. Now, LoS isn't the only game to copy things. Look at Darksiders, it copied a lot. It didn't even do a good job with most of the stuff it copied. (Still liked it though, because I enjoyed the combat.)

LoS copied a lot of things, and pretty much all of it was done badly. The combat isn't included because it's an action game... not many ways out there to make an action game. Though if a new way came out that's enjoyable that'd be cool. Like that new MGS game (And there goes another tangent) But the QTEs, which we were lied about btw, were horrible. Especially that stupid ass spin the lever one. UGH. I hate QTEs in general, but that is just... gotta be one of the worst I've ever seen. Colossi combat was done very very very poorly as well. No freedom in it, completely different game play, that just throws you off the side of the cliff from the real combat.

SotN, I felt did good with the things it copied, which is why I never talked about it ripping off other things. Or many other games.

Doesn't help it when Cox was here trying to bait us either.


BTW, wasn't me who thumbed you down. And btw, one of my main reason for hating him was him blatantly lying too. Anywho, back to what this edit was supposed to be about.

I think the DMC reboot wasn't very respectful, and that's been pointed out. I did like majority of the game play though, and the level design, it was quite well done.

[son_the_vampire]

I wouldn't say it (LoS) was copying any other franchise but it was inspired by other titles. Same goes for SotN. They saw what people admired most about Super Metroid and then tinkered it to make their game its own entity. It shares some of the same elements but i would dare say their intentions were to copy

[Shiroi Koumori]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery....
Hmmm... That would mean that games developed by big name companies in the future will be similar to each other. /brr

[Kingshango]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery....
Hmmm... That would mean that games developed by big name companies in the future will be similar to each other. /brr

That's been happening for a long time now.

[The Silverlord]

I half-think Cox is trolling some of you guys in these interviews!  He gets you every time.

I think he’s right in one sense though: Castlevania wasn't going anywhere.  Whether it would have went under or not is a different matter, but the games really weren’t going anywhere.  The two last 3D attempts were generally not well received, and the Classic and Castleroid games—as much as I love most of them—have played themselves out about as far as they can.  Just look at the level design of Portrait or Ecclesia.  Let's be honest: it's not great, and this is several years on from ‘97.

For me, Lords of Shadow arrived later than I would have liked.  It's the best 3D game since the N64 days, and it's moved us on beyond the—I almost want to use the word profligacy, in the sense that it went on for too long, and seemed devoid of fresh idea and inspiration—of the IGA/Kojima/Yamane years.  Castlevania had to move on, it had to grow up.

Could another developer other than Mercurysteam have done better?  Probably.  Could the game have been better?  Definitely.

Now, all that said, I do also think Castlevania might still go nowhere.  Mirror of Fate sales were disappointing.  Lords of Shadow 2 might struggle too, given its release at the end of this Xbox360/PS3 generation.  In its favour perhaps, gothic fantasy is quite big right now.  We’ve got Dark Souls, Game of Thrones: there’s a lot of dark fantasy doing well and in the mass consciousness at present.

[A-Yty]

What's the point of trolling? Especially since he, Alvarez etc. have already made some pretty douchey statements during these couple of years. If he really is doing that, he's making things worse.

[crisis]

I love a reading a good debate, and lets face it, if everyone here agreed with each other all the time then this would be a very boring forum! +1 to all

Castlevania had to move on, it had to grow up.

Yo dawg, is yuo implying LoS is the "grown-man's" Castlevania??  o .o;

[A-Yty]

What does "growing up" actually mean? Plot gets more complicated? Things turn more "epic" and/or grittier? Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-tas, nice nude bum-bums, hoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?

[VladCT]

Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-taas, nice nude bum-bums, yoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?

Sounds like Dante's Inferno to me.

[The Silverlord]

What does "growing up" actually mean? Plot gets more complicated? Things turn more "epic" and/or grittier? Blood, guts and gore? Big ta-taas, nice nude bum-bums, yoo-hoos and floppy dingdongs?

Blood, guts and gore?

I loved all of that.  A change for the better.  Some really raw characters on show in Lords of Shadow, that butcher was fantastic boss idea for example.  The dracolich battle was brilliant.

You know I'm not going to say the story/plot line was brilliant.  But I yearn to see more mature characters and themes, we've not really had anything of that kind.  Now is it Castlevania?  Maybe not in the purest sense, and I understand our series isn't say, Game of Thrones, but we have a rich gothic horror setting and some really powerful characters/entities and mythology to work with.