Topic: The Future of the Castlevania Series

[shelverton.]

I agree that the atmosphere in SotN had a lot to do with it. The biggest difference between SotN and the metroidvanias that followed it was that the exploration felt "real". Exploring every nook and cranny was exciting cause it really felt like this huge gothic castle. In AoS/DoS/Hod etc I really felt I was just playing a video game. And as great as those games were in their own right, you could almost see the code running, and the sense of exploring was a bit lost.

Games like SotN and Super Metroid did a fantastic job making you feel like you were exploring places that noone - not even the developers - knew existed. Silly, I know. But the atmosphere made the environments more than just levels in a game. IMO.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I agree that the atmosphere in SotN had a lot to do with it. The biggest difference between SotN and the metroidvanias that followed it was that the exploration felt "real". Exploring every nook and cranny was exciting cause it really felt like this huge gothic castle. In AoS/DoS/Hod etc I really felt I was just playing a video game. And as great as those games were in their own right, you could almost see the code running, and the sense of exploring was a bit lost.

Games like SotN and Super Metroid did a fantastic job making you feel like you were exploring places that noone - not even the developers - knew existed. Silly, I know. But the atmosphere made the environments more than just levels in a game. IMO.

In my opinion, we were weaned on SOTN's exploration to the point that it becomes second nature, that is why, in the later metroidvanias, things just seem "been there, done that." We already knew where the developers would most likely hide stuff without the need for a walkthrough.

[shelverton.]

In my opinion, we were weaned on SOTN's exploration to the point that it becomes second nature, that is why, in the later metroidvanias, things just seem "been there, done that." We already knew where the developers would most likely hide stuff without the need for a walkthrough.

Well, I guess you're right. Though I honestly think the level design in SotN was less "video gamey" than many of the games that followed it.

In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways. Hitting walls with your normal weapon is too obvious. There should be more mystery! More secrets! More hidden areas where you can't explore unless you really go out of your way, performing crazy wall jumps, and death defying acrobatics, only to reach your destination and find out that you needed to bring..dunno....DYNAMITE (!) from ten screens ago. I want to be frustrated more.

[The Puritan]

In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways. Hitting walls with your normal weapon is too obvious. There should be more mystery! More secrets! More hidden areas where you can't explore unless you really go out of your way, performing crazy wall jumps, and death defying acrobatics, only to reach your destination and find out that you needed to bring..dunno....DYNAMITE (!) from ten screens ago. I want to be frustrated more.

This is why Chair Entertainment is one of my picks to do future Metroidvanias. They 'get' the formula, and Shadow Complex showed it. 

[shelverton.]

This is why Chair Entertainment is one of my picks to do future Metroidvanias. They 'get' the formula, and Shadow Complex showed it. 

Truth!
I wish they'd spend some of those Infinity Blade millions and finish Shadow Complex 2 already. But yeah, Castlevania would be sweet. At this point I would be happy to give Castlevania to any small developer with a decent track record. Chair, WayForward, Armature (even though that Vita/3DS Batman game got mixed reviews), From Software (please please please!) or... dunno.. some indie-developer nobody's ever heard of. As long as they have some love for 2D and know and respect the history of the franchise.

I wouldn't mind Retro Studios either but that would mean Nintendo exclusive, which is fine with me as long as it's for the 3DS. No prepared to buy a WiiU just yet..

[Intersection]

At this point I would be happy to give Castlevania to any small developer with a decent track record. As long as they have some love for 2D and know and respect the history of the franchise.

This is why Chair Entertainment is one of my picks to do future Metroidvanias. They 'get' the formula, and Shadow Complex showed it. 

Agreed. We need developers who've already proven that they know how to handle CV-styled 2D games. Shadow Complex was an extraordinary game, so I'd be quite optimistic if Chair was to take the lead. Castlevania simply can't afford to see another title like Mirror of Fate come out.

And it may be just me, but seeing those successful, modern games draw comparisons to what Castlevania used to represent makes me wonder just what MercurySteam could possibly be trying to achieve with that strange 'reboot' it had in mind. After all, it's not the most rewarding experience out there to read about how so many great games have "taken inspiration from Castlevania", whereas the actual Castlevania series has for some reason gone masquerading as God of War...

[theANdROId]

Well, I guess you're right. Though I honestly think the level design in SotN was less "video gamey" than many of the games that followed it.

In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways. Hitting walls with your normal weapon is too obvious. There should be more mystery! More secrets! More hidden areas where you can't explore unless you really go out of your way, performing crazy wall jumps, and death defying acrobatics, only to reach your destination and find out that you needed to bring..dunno....DYNAMITE (!) from ten screens ago. I want to be frustrated more.

One thing this says to me (thinking of my wish to have at least the Belomont, Belnades, Alucard trio on call) is different skills/abilities.  I suppose some may say it's...(something...can't think of the word I want)...it does present opportunities for secret areas to come back to later.  Somewhere only Alucard can reach in bat or mist form, somewhere only a Belnades using magic/elemental magic can open...stuff like that.  Furthermore, in one character's area, place a secret only accessible to another character, eventually opening a route for that character to get there.  Maybe that sounds confusing or aggravating, but to me it sounds like maximizing exploration.

That also makes me think of the "whip-flip" in LoI.  I think most people hated that little thing, but I loved it!  Sure, flipping across multiple grapple points was tough sometimes (like that one room where you climb up by going across soooo many of them) but getting close and falling back down a level is what I think when you say you want to be frustrated!  It was fun, and I almost made it...GAH...gotta try again, but I'll make it!

Then there are those few places in several games (AoS, LoI, and I think one from CoD are first to my mind) with the puzzles to solve to get through the room:  The platform in AoS where you pressed the D-pad as you went along; the room with the cannon shooting at you in LoI, where the door that opened to you depended on which set of statues you destroyed; a high wall to climb up before the platforms all retracted back into the wall (in CoD?).

[adelcs]

And it may be just me, but seeing those successful, modern games draw comparisons to what Castlevania used to represent makes me wonder just what MercurySteam could possibly be trying to achieve with that strange 'reboot' it had in mind. After all, it's not the most rewarding experience out there to read about how so many great games have "taken inspiration from Castlevania", whereas the actual Castlevania series has for some reason gone masquerading as God of War...

Unfortunately, stuff like that happens all the time in the game industry. The original Uncharted took very heavy inspiration from Tomb Raider. Then, years later, the new Tomb Raider comes out and it's basically a total ripoff of Uncharted. This stuff goes back and forth constantly.

Also, on the subject of new developers to handle Castlevania, I think it'd be interested to see what Retro Studios could do with a 3D Metroidvania. After all, they were the ones who successfully pushed the Metroid franchise into 3D without compromising too much of what made Metroid unique. Of course, that would require some type of agreement between Nintendo and Konami, since Retro is owned by Nintendo.

[X]

One thing this says to me (thinking of my wish to have at least the Belomont, Belnades, Alucard trio on call) is different skills/abilities.  I suppose some may say it's...(something...can't think of the word I want)...it does present opportunities for secret areas to come back to later.  Somewhere only Alucard can reach in bat or mist form, somewhere only a Belnades using magic/elemental magic can open...stuff like that.  Furthermore, in one character's area, place a secret only accessible to another character, eventually opening a route for that character to get there.  Maybe that sounds confusing or aggravating, but to me it sounds like maximizing exploration.

The word you're looking for is 'gimmick'. If it's a gimmick IGA would be all over it like melted cheese. He would have no-doubt used what you've described in the above in at least one of his Metroidvania games. However he did not maximize it to the full potential that you have mentioned.

[theANdROId]

The word you're looking for is 'gimmick'...

That's it!  Thanks! :-)  But even as gimmick-y as it might be, a gimmick can sometimes be good if done right.

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Another reason why SOTN has never been surpassed (or even rivaled, though that's subjective) could stem from the music. Let's face it: the music was a big part of why we loved the game. Later games had a lot of great tunes but on the whole they just... couldn't truly live up to SOTN's. And that may have pulled down our general experience of every IGA-made game since.

As someone whose favorite Metroidvania is SotN and for whom the game would still be 10/10 even if it had no music at all (i.e. not necessarily a big part of why I loved the game), I can't really agree with that. I prefer PoR and OoE's OSTs to SotN's. I feel Yamane finally discovered the heart of how to write catchy VK/WC/BT-like songs in those last years with songs like Jail of Jewels and An Empty Tome.

In a future metroid-style Castlevania I wish there were more effort put into secret areas and passageways.

Do you really think there will be future Metroid-style Castlevanias?

(click to show/hide)

I don't. She's dead, Jim, the wider audience killed her. The sooner one accepts this, the sooner one can find peace and move on.

[Hec_toR]

little spread discussion about this ....Maybe reboot ,  maybe HD collecttion on future console and about stories line , its got to future time!! it like Aria of sorrow

[Simonbelmondo12]

I really want a few more of the godofwar like Castlevania, it was a really fun and new thing for Konami to try. After that, I guess I want another reboot. As much as I hate to say it, we probably won't go back to classic Castlevania and the Metroidvania style is getting old.

[JoshuaKadmon]

I've come to terms with a few facts about CV's future, and I don't think we will be able to retread the paths we've already traveled.  While I would love to see some collections or anthologies assembled to consolidate the existing titles in a newer format, any new entry past LoS2 will need to move into fresh territory.

1) We can never truly relive classic 2D side-scrolling like CVI-IV, as gaming has simply progressed too far beyond that format.

2) Metroidvania games by Iga were great, but their decreasing popularity and lower profits are part of what led to Western development in the first place.  SotN cannot be fully replicated.

3) Love 'em or hate 'em, LoS will be done next year.  There won't be much Konami can do to expand it, though a next-gen trilogy release including MoF HD and all LoS1&2 DLC could be nice to incapsulate it.

4) The old timeline is too crowded to add much more to it.  If Konami keeps trying to squeeze in chapters, it will likely damage existing classics, and I doubt we will ever see an entry based directly on the 1999 Demon Castle War.

Honestly, I don't trust Konami to do CV internally any more, and I would be fine if another Western studio got a crack at it.  WayForward, Chair, and Retro have all been mentioned, and those would be fine if we're talking 2D.  But it could also be nice to see CV updated as a customizeable open-world action-RPG, something more frenetic than Dark Souls or Skyrim but possibly in that vein.  Frankly, I'll try to be happy with any new CV, no matter what direction it takes.  I just want them to continue, and I would prefer for them not to suck.

[Chernabogue]

Even Metroid is not doing Metroid style anymore lol