Topic: Infidelity

[Lone Wolf]

So... Has someone ever had problems with this before?

[Neobelmont]

no but I did a something 80+ page report alongside my team in sociology(and had to present all this information BY MY SELF during Finals). They say men cheat more but I say that there is not(nor will there ever be) sufficient enough proof for that even with all we acquired .   

[Lone Wolf]

Well... I actually can't believe it is possible to live with such a thing deep inside of you..
I mean, even knowing this is wrong and there's a girl you love so much... You still do this to yourself, and her as well. It feels horrible...
What is true love at the start? Can we really love someone enough to not even betray them? Humans commit mistakes, i know, but how? Can't we find any true love? Will we always live with this same thing tormenting our lives?

[Ratty]

Are you asking for advice or what?

The best place to start is the beginning, so ask a few questions to set the outlines of your greater conundrum.
What precisely is fidelity and why does it matter to you? Are we talking about emotional fidelity or physical only? At what point does one cross the line into infidelity? Can one be physically faithful but unfaithful emotionally and mentally? Why does it bother you when your spouse cheats on you, what does it say about your relationship and their feelings toward you? After all there are people, swingers and polygamists, who don't see a contradiction with many partners at once or having casual sex with many people who are not your partner.

Some of these questions you have to answer yourself and some have accepted definite answers, but the answers to all of them should be considered when trying to understand infidelity, why it happens and why it hurts. Also don't forget that brain chemistry that might be the result of other factors comes into play, as well as the fact that sex (along with the search for food and shelter/security) is one of the three primary motivators for humans.

[Neobelmont]

Well... I actually can't believe it is possible to live with such a thing deep inside of you..
I mean, even knowing this is wrong and there's a girl you love so much... You still do this to yourself, and her as well. It feels horrible...
What is true love at the start? Can we really love someone enough to not even betray them? Humans commit mistakes, i know, but how? Can't we find any true love? Will we always live with this same thing tormenting our lives?

 You have a girl right there to love you to death yet, you turn the other way to hurt her it makes no sense to me either. Facts and research may show something as to possible reasons why, but in the end...

I was a little kid when I heard this song:


 
The Thunder Rolls: Garth Brooks lyrics


Things like this lead to no good even death...

[Lone Wolf]

I don't see this in such a way, Ratty.. I mean, when there's someone you love very much..
But still, sometimes you commit mistakes..
You know, as a man, how can you still feel something for other persons as well as your first lover, and still live with that so commonly?
I mean, if real love means more than just "liking" someone..

[Ratty]

Meh human's don't always act logically, especially where their libido is concerned. Because on some level we're just pack mules for our genetics trying to disperse our traits in as wide a net as possible out of pure instinct. It's a common human failing we have to recognize. We don't have to accept it, but recognizing and understanding it can only help us control it.

[Lone Wolf]

Meh human's don't always act logically, especially where their libido is concerned. Because on some level we're just pack mules for our genetics trying to disperse our traits in as wide a net as possible out of pure instinct. It's a common human failing we have to recognize. We don't have to accept it, but recognizing and understanding it can only help us control it.

I got it... It's something instinctive, i know.. But it sucks.. Then how can you differ it from true love?

You have a girl right there to love you to death yet, you turn the other way to hurt her it makes no sense to me either. Facts and research may show something as to possible reasons why, but in the end...

I was a little kid when I heard this song:

 
The Thunder Rolls: Garth Brooks lyrics


Things like this lead to no good even death...

I agree, Neo.. And still, you try to be loyal to her as much as possible... Sometimes it hurts to be a man, you know... I heard women can still control this with more facility. Not saying women can't betray men, though.. But i can't stand the fact men seem so fragile to this...

[uzo]

Cheaters are scumbags. No if's, and's or but's.

THE END

[Ratty]

I got it... It's something instinctive, i know.. But it sucks.. Then how can you differ it from true love?

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking. Love and lust are obviously very different (though not necessarily mutually exclusive) emotions when you experience them. Some people unfortunately have very poor impulse control when it comes to their biological urges, whether it's food, sloth or sex. But I should think even to such people the difference between physical desire and deeply held affection are obvious.

I agree, Neo.. And still, you try to be loyal to her as much as possible... Sometimes it hurts to be a man, you know... I heard women can still control this with more facility. Not saying women can't betray men, though.. But i can't stand the fact men seem so fragile to this...

At least part of that is biology/instinct, for most of the history of our species (and still today in large part) if a man got a woman pregnant and didn't want to raise the baby he could just leave. The woman doesn't have that option, she's stuck at least until she has the baby or has a miscarriage/abortion. So women might have a stronger tendency to be monogamous and selective of their partners purely on instinct.

Cheaters are scumbags. No if's, and's or but's.

THE END

Yes but again how do you define cheating? Is it a violation of trust? Does it have to be a physical act? I'm not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination however in Matthew 5:28 Jesus says "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."*
So are lustful thoughts for those who are not your partner infidelity? Or does a perhaps older axiom hold true, that being "I'm married, not dead." ?

*No doubt most other religions have input on the subject as well. If someone has some examples they might add an interesting dimension to the discussion.

[TheouAegis]

No such thing as cheating. As for who does it more, it's even. ... Yeah I just contradicted myself. When a guy cheats, it's usually for sex. When a girl cheats, it's usually for companionship or sex. Since girls typically have more reasons to cheat than guys, then girls potentially cheat more often than guys. The thing is most girls think a guy really loves them when he's just there for the sex and isn't really cheating because he never wanted her for anything more than a fuck buddy. Some girls are like that too, hence why I said there's no such thing.

[Lone Wolf]

Not all guys just want girls for sex. But instinct is still something that really bothers you at times like these, men just can't resist it in most of times... And even when you know that you love someone, when something as this comes to you, it can be really annoying.

At least part of that is biology/instinct, for most of the history of our species (and still today in large part) if a man got a woman pregnant and didn't want to raise the baby he could just leave. The woman doesn't have that option, she's stuck at least until she has the baby or has a miscarriage/abortion. So women might have a stronger tendency to be monogamous and selective of their partners purely on instinct.

Yes but again how do you define cheating? Is it a violation of trust? Does it have to be a physical act? I'm not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination however in Matthew 5:28 Jesus says "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."*
So are lustful thoughts for those who are not your partner infidelity? Or does a perhaps older axiom hold true, that being "I'm married, not dead." ?

About the first one, what do you mean with "instinct" in there, Ratty? And, you're not relating emotions to it as well, are you?

And about the second one, i know what you mean. So even if a man really loves a person, he can still be with another girls and that's it? I don't know, i think there's more than just one thing to think about.
First, what is he feeling for both girls? Is this really love? Or maybe what he feels for the second one is lust?
Second, as you said, what is considered infidelity? Even if he could feel the same for both girls, or not, so just staying with a second girl as well is enough to be considered cheating?
And third, isn't it wrong? I mean, can he still live with both at the same time? Even if he loves one person only, is it still okay to live with more than just one? Maybe? Since one of them agrees with that and doesn't see it as cheating? I think it's not just the opinion of the man that counts, but the opinion of each girl as well, don't you agree with it? So they can all live in harmony, even if in a three-person relationship or whatever that is.. I don't mean to relate it to the religious point of view, though..

[Lone Wolf]

Look, i'm sorry if it's not allowed to double post or whatever. But i need to put it out..

For me, i don't think being with more than just one girl could be wrong. I mean, does it necessarily have to be considered a "betrayal"?
Maybe jealousy is some kind of obsession for love? Or maybe just fear from losing one's partner to the other person?
If one man has a second girl as well, doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't feel anything for the first one anymore.. He may still feel something, for both of them, as well..
Maybe... Being with another girl as well isn't wrong, maybe people were just tought this way, and now they have fear that something horrible could happen?
Personally, I think both the guy and the girl are free to stay with other persons, of course, since they can still maintain their main relationship. Freedom was made for both of them, and of course, whatever happens to one couple, it's one couple's responsability, the other couples have nothing to do with that.
For me it would be okay.. But i'm still not sure if it's right, or if i shouldn't care about it? I'm not really sure if thinking this way is right for me. I don't see any trouble though, but... I wonder if two persons in a couple can understand their mistakes, and make it through...

[X]

Maybe... Being with another girl as well isn't wrong, maybe people were just tought this way, and now they have fear that something horrible could happen?

And you'd be right. We were taught this way; by religion. They had essentially shoved it down our throats. Before religion there was paganism and the whole idea of being tied down with one woman for the rest of your life simply did not exist in the same context as it does today. A married couple had the freedom to sleep with other men/women if they so chose. It was all for the benefit/survival of the group/tribe. There was nothing sinful about it. Sex is a survival instinct, like food, water, shelter and fighting to survive. Love is something you feel with your heart and soul. It is in essence the power of God and what you feel with your heart and soul is vastly different then what you feel with your libido. Physical pleasure is only temporary; lasting till the deed is done, whilst the pleasure you feel with your heart and soul is forever. Even if you don't feel it after a time it is still with you; imprinted unto your very being. Love is not related to physical sex even though some of the religious communities would see it otherwise. It's simply human nature to procreate with more then one woman, even if you are married. So in terms of "infidelity" I don't think that such a word was ever meant to exist, let alone be forced upon us just to satisfy a few dogmatic egomaniacs. God understands completely about this nature of ours because he/she created us with it and therefore it is truth. As true as we are. As we can be. And unfortunately it is a truth that many have attempted to stamp out, without even beginning to try and understand why it is and why it exists.

[Lone Wolf]

I love you, dude. It makes an amazing sense to me this way. Thank you so much! I totally agree it.