Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Vampire Killer]

Though I loved the combat system in LoS (not that it was perfect), I can see where it might be a problem in an exploration type Cv. I remember that one of my main gripes with LoI was that in the latter half of the game, enemies would respawn each and every time you re-entered a room (like in a most 2D games). Problem was you were often forced to kill every enemy in said room, before you could leave. Considering how poorly (lazily?) LoI's environments were done, I would often get lost, and end up having to go through anywhere from 5-20 minutes of battles, just to get back on the right course.

Hopefully, MoF will follow LoS more closely in this respect, making it so once a room is cleared, it stays cleared for either a certain period of time, or until you reach a certain point in the game.

Other than that though, I have no worries. Well, other than how I'm gonna scrounge up the $$$ to buy a 3DS as well as MoF.

[e105beta]

I still don't get why people are still trying to make this Cox vs IGA.

Am I just one of those rare types of people that, I dunno, actually like both without feeling the need to say which one is more pure or how IGA just rehashes EVERYTHING EVER or that Cox is arrogant and is TURNING EVERYTHING INTO A GOW CLONE?

I mean damn guys, most people just want a good game and actually don't want to turn this into a dumb pissing contest about whose guy is the best guy.

I highly doubt Cox or IGA think of each other as any more than coworkers, and certainly don't hate each other.

Also Ahaseverus-sama, that comparison picture between CoD Trevor and Lor3ds Trevor is kind of whoa. I had no idea they were basing Trev off of his CoD appearance. Having a callback to that game is a nice touch, just as nice as seeing Simon's design reference Chronicles and a little bit of Julius.

The -1 you have on that post illustrates the problem completely.

This isn't between Cox and IGA. This is between a very angry, very vocal subset of Castlevania and Castlevania fans.
The former is a group that intensely loves a subset of the Castlevania games, and believes those to be "true" Castlevania games. They ignore the various changes the series has gone in its lifetime, and will argue (angrily) with anyone who says otherwise, because what they like, they like, and you are stupid for not liking it too.

The latter, much larger group, is perfectly fine discussing the series as a whole, assessing it for everything it has done right and everything it has done wrong. They don't all like the same games, but they can have a civil discussion about what they like, what they don't like, and why their opinions are the way they are.

TL;DR Forum has a bad case of "My favorite game was _______ and I will decry all games that aren't like it"

[Vampire Killer]

The -1 you have on that post illustrates the problem completely.

This isn't between Cox and IGA. This is between a very angry, very vocal subset of Castlevania and Castlevania fans.
The former is a group that intensely loves a subset of the Castlevania games, and believes those to be "true" Castlevania games. They ignore the various changes the series has gone in its lifetime, and will argue (angrily) with anyone who says otherwise, because what they like, they like, and you are stupid for not liking it too.

The latter, much larger group, is perfectly fine discussing the series as a whole, assessing it for everything it has done right and everything it has done wrong. They don't all like the same games, but they can have a civil discussion about what they like, what they don't like, and why their opinions are the way they are.

TL;DR Forum has a bad case of "My favorite game was _______ and I will decry all games that aren't like it"

So true. While I'm admittedly a LoS fanboy, I've loved most Cv's over the years, and Iga, for all his mistakes, did very well by the series. I just felt that the series desperately needed a fresh coat of paint after all these years under one mans control.  Can't wait to introduce my kid to the entire series. Not sure where to start though.

[e105beta]

So true. While I'm admittedly a LoS fanboy, I've loved most Cv's over the years, and Iga, for all his mistakes, did very well by the series. I just felt that the series desperately needed a fresh coat of paint after all these years under one mans control.

Agreed. I just don't know why it's so hard for people to see the series so comprehensively. Maybe a lack of perspective?

I mean, I love LoS. I think it's a great, fresh new way forward for a series that saw a fair bit of stagnation in the last few years. Does that mean I think it's perfect? Not in the least. The platforming was slow and clunky, and the level design could have been far improved. There were also some enemy battles that just dragged on and on and on. As for the art-style, I loved it, but there were also times when I longed for something a bit more romanesque and a bit more stylized. Did I like the music? Yes, but it while it did have its references, it was missing the melody of music from older titles.

I think people are too stuck on the idea of "perfect" and I think a lot of fans are missing perspective. I know I've talked to plenty of Castlevania fans who think SotN is the pinnacle of Castlevania design and that if anything deviates too far from that, it stops being good. Is SotN an excellent game? Of course it is. I love. I own three different versions of it. Was it perfect? No. I have my gripes. Do I want to play SotN-style Metroidvanias for the rest of my Castlevania career. Not really. I started with CVIII, and I've seen the changes the series has undergone, some of them good, and some of them bad, but nothing is ever bad enough for me to scream "That's not Castlevania!"

For example I hate Soma's character concept. Hate it. The concept of the dark lord Dracula being reincarnated into an effeminate Japanese school boy wearing a white pimp coat bothers me.

But I loved Aria of Sorrow. I even liked Dawn of Sorrow. The tactical soul system was an excellent addition to the series, and IGA should be lauded for coming up for it.

Sorry, a bit of a rant, but I've grown oh so tired of all of the "That's not real Castlevania!/The fans demand respect!" garbage that keeps getting thrown around.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

The -1 you have on that post illustrates the problem completely.

This isn't between Cox and IGA. This is between a very angry, very vocal subset of Castlevania and Castlevania fans.
The former is a group that intensely loves a subset of the Castlevania games, and believes those to be "true" Castlevania games. They ignore the various changes the series has gone in its lifetime, and will argue (angrily) with anyone who says otherwise, because what they like, they like, and you are stupid for not liking it too.

The latter, much larger group, is perfectly fine discussing the series as a whole, assessing it for everything it has done right and everything it has done wrong. They don't all like the same games, but they can have a civil discussion about what they like, what they don't like, and why their opinions are the way they are.

TL;DR Forum has a bad case of "My favorite game was _______ and I will decry all games that aren't like it"

EDIT: Keep the -1's coming, guys, you're only proving my point.

That -1 looks like  a +3 to me.

[Vampire Killer]

Agreed. I just don't know why it's so hard for people to see the series so comprehensively. Maybe a lack of perspective?

I mean, I love LoS. I think it's a great, fresh new way forward for a series that saw a fair bit of stagnation in the last few years. Does that mean I think it's perfect? Not in the least. The platforming was slow and clunky, and the level design could have been far improved. There were also some enemy battles that just dragged on and on and on. As for the art-style, I loved it, but there were also times when I longed for something a bit more romanesque and a bit more stylized. Did I like the music? Yes, but it while it did have its references, it was missing the melody of music from older titles.

I think people are too stuck on the idea of "perfect" and I think a lot of fans are missing perspective. I know I've talked to plenty of Castlevania fans who think SotN is the pinnacle of Castlevania design and that if anything deviates too far from that, it stops being good. Is SotN an excellent game? Of course it is. I love. I own three different versions of it. Was it perfect? No. I have my gripes. Do I want to play SotN-style Metroidvanias for the rest of my Castlevania career. Not really. I started with CVIII, and I've seen the changes the series has undergone, some of them good, and some of them bad, but nothing is ever bad enough for me to scream "That's not Castlevania!"

For example I hate Soma's character concept. Hate it. The concept of the dark lord Dracula being reincarnated into an effeminate Japanese school boy wearing a white pimp coat bothers me.

But I loved Aria of Sorrow. I even liked Dawn of Sorrow. The tactical soul system was an excellent addition to the series, and IGA should be lauded for coming up for it.

Sorry, a bit of a rant, but I've grown oh so tired of all of the "That's not real Castlevania!/The fans demand respect!" garbage that keeps getting thrown around.

Pretty much agree 100%. Loved AoS as well, even though I also hated Soma's overall design.

I guess I just don't get how people get hung up on some of the most trivial of details, and let that keep them from enjoying the majority of what's good.

[Darkson]

I'd have to agree e105beta, too many people get hung up on the metroidvania style that was used in symphony. I say just enjoy them all for what they are. I personally got sick of metroidvania after the fifth or so iteration. That is why I liked lords of shadow. It was different, it had its own unique, but familiar flavor. It kept the dark fantasy the series was known for, but used different enemies than the various copy pasted foes we faced in the past. I enjoyed not having to fight five different colors of skeletons. Not to mention, once you got used to them, the qte were easy to do, and rewarded you with an impressive kill like what happened to carmilla.

[MelancholySpork12]

I'd have to agree e105beta, too many people get hung up on the metroidvania style that was used in symphony. I say just enjoy them all for what they are. I personally got sick of metroidvania after the fifth or so iteration. That is why I liked lords of shadow. It was different, it had its own unique, but familiar flavor. It kept the dark fantasy the series was known for, but used different enemies than the various copy pasted foes we faced in the past. I enjoyed not having to fight five different colors of skeletons. Not to mention, once you got used to them, the qte were easy to do, and rewarded you with an impressive kill like what happened to carmilla.

I think the problem with Lords of Shadow is that it just felt like a mash-up of things that have nothing to do with Castlevania. Gameplay from God of War, boss fights from Shadow of the Colossus, music from John Powell's demo reel and an art style lifted directly from Lord of the Rings. Nothing about the game felt "fresh" to me. It was definitely a new take on Castlevania, but it wasn't anything new.

And, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. There's just nothing special about it either, and Castlevania is a series that has always felt special to me. It's unique. Yeah, the gameplay is like Metroid, but it's got a far deeper item system and handful of RPG elements that set it apart. The music is like none other, and the whole franchise just drips with personality. Lord of Shadow? Virtually no personality what so ever. MercurySteam managed to take a cherished franchise and turn it into a bland, B- experience.

Having beaten LoS, I'm not knocking the game for what it is, I would just be sorely disappointed if this is what CV's future looked like. I'm all for innovation, but I'm not seeing any innovation here. I'm just seeing mediocrity.

[Darkson]

Well, since it seems that cox and the team have listened to the critics, it's highly likely that both mirror of faith and los2 will be a bit more gothic in style, perhaps even put a better spin on the collosal bosses if the include them again. I personally loved the dracolich, was exciting and entertaining.

But I do acknowledge your comments, the combat did feel like god of war at times. Though I do disagree on the music, but maybe if they had The previous series composer work with the one for lords of shadow, they could find a middle ground for both fans.

[LoneChild]

I feel sincerely sorry for some people here. Every time we get a new announcement I get this 11 years old boy feeling again and again, no matter how many years have passed since Simon's Quest.

I'm not digging this respect points system, but e105beta and Vampire Killer, there you go.

[Sumac]

This isn't between Cox and IGA. This is between a very angry, very vocal subset of Castlevania and Castlevania fans.
The former is a group that intensely loves a subset of the Castlevania games, and believes those to be "true" Castlevania games. They ignore the various changes the series has gone in its lifetime, and will argue (angrily) with anyone who says otherwise, because what they like, they like, and you are stupid for not liking it too.

Precisely.
Looks like they hegemony is finally over. MOF just needs to be a good game, so this people will be put on their places and maybe stop being so...vocal with their imaginary perfection.

I think people are too stuck on the idea of "perfect" and I think a lot of fans are missing perspective.

This is precisely what I have written quite a time ago.
People (usually old fans) great a "perfect image" of the series. It is usually shaped after one of the games and then there are vehemently praising it as "the standard of perfection that should be worshipped by anyone". The ones who dare to say something against this "image" are immediately labeled as trolls, fools, not true fans, and other garbage. This is quite bad situation, because said people will never be satisfied with anything that IGA or anyone else will put out, because it will be far away form they perfect vision. And the more time will pass, more they will believe in this "image" and more angry they will be, when next game will have nothing to do with what they have created in their heads. Then they will try to justify they worshipping of the phantom and aggressiveness as "being true fans, who know better than developers, what series should be and protectin it from corrupting influence of modern gamers and technology and greedy producers who dare to not care what they, TRUE FANS want".
This theory was confirmed quite a lot of times in different fandoms. But Castlevania fandom is probably plagued the most by it.
Sorry for the rant and longwinded explanation.

[Dremn]

You guys shouldn't be shooting anything down until you've seen the game in action. All we have is screenshots and a synopsis, just wait until tomorrow tonight before you decide to hunt down Cox and Konami.

As long as the game feels like Castlevania I'll be content with it. The amount of content in the game we know about already is enough to know they've been hearing everyone's complaints, and they've actually made a big effort to answer them.

Lords of Shadow will never, ever, be Akumajo Dracula. Ever. The series is rumored to end at LoS 2 anyway, I doubt they would go beyond a trilogy. After LoS 2, they'll go back to the old canon and probably either remake more games, more spin offs with no Belmonts, or never make the 1999 game anyway.

...................

I have no idea what this post is but basically everyone needs to stop getting their titties in a twist.

[Reinhart77]

i wonder if this'll be essentially 3D combat with 2D movement.  does needing area attacks for when enemies surround you mean that you could be flanked by enemies and have enemies in front of you and behind you?  are you limited to 2D movements, while enemies can move in 3D? 

the playing perspective of this game reminds me a little of what the canceled Castlevania: Resurrection might have been like.  i think that would have essentially had 2D movements through a 3D environment. 

of course, making comparisons to Resurrection makes me want Sonia to be in the game.  wonder if there will be lots of references to characters like her in cut-scenes, backstory, or the equivalent of brotherhood scrolls.  it'd be cool if you could find a Belmont pedigree or family tree scroll lying around somewhere.  they could also make a puzzle around one.

[MelancholySpork12]

Well, since it seems that cox and the team have listened to the critics, it's highly likely that both mirror of faith and los2 will be a bit more gothic in style, perhaps even put a better spin on the collosal bosses if the include them again. I personally loved the dracolich, was exciting and entertaining.

But I do acknowledge your comments, the combat did feel like god of war at times. Though I do disagree on the music, but maybe if they had The previous series composer work with the one for lords of shadow, they could find a middle ground for both fans.

I hope you're right. From what I've seen of MoF, the art style is looking more like what I'd expect from Castlevania. Time will tell.

About the music, perhaps I can offer a different perspective, since I'm a composer myself. The music in LoS is very nice, but considering the extraordinary length of the game, the actual music content was pretty minimal. I definitely heard the same four tracks loop several times throughout most of the game. It's quite obvious to me that they grabbed a first-rate composer and told him to write something pretty, and didn't involve him much in the game's aesthetic development. He wasn't having any fun with the process, just doing his job. I find that you can usually hear the difference when the composer is having fun with the soundtrack. I hear that a LOT in Castlevania music - bouncy, DNB-ish basslines with a sophisticated melody playing over it. LoS's music is technically fine, above-average even. But there wasn't much soul in it (for lack of a better word).

Which also reflects my feelings towards the entire game, but the music stuck out to me in that aspect.

[DragonSlayr81]

Well, since it seems that cox and the team have listened to the critics, it's highly likely that both mirror of faith and los2 will be a bit more gothic in style, perhaps even put a better spin on the collosal bosses if the include them again. I personally loved the dracolich, was exciting and entertaining.

That's actually I'm anticipating about LoS2's revealing, if Cox applied the critisism he talked about(with MoF) to his next HD 3D CV venture. It's all and good with MoF, because that is a different game than LoS, being handled quite differently, but the criticism was originally from LoS, so I'd assume those were meant to be taken into consideration for their next big 3D CV game. And considering I'm loving what I'm seeing with MoF, I REEEEALLY hope they do!