Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Sindra]

They make me ashamed as well....and I'm a Sonic Sega-Purist. -_-

I think we can all agree that, honestly...we want both continuities to continue - both the old and the new. One shouldn't be beatout by the other and left the "winner", allowed to survive and continue making games. In this case, it really SHOULD be like the Marvel 616 and Marvel Ultimate universes - separate, yet able to continue their own stories without worry that one will overrule the other, because they both have their own rules.

You hear me, Konami?! Goddamn MARVEL COMICS is able to make the idea of two separate universes for the same franchise work within the means AND be profitable. IT CAN BE DONE!

[e105beta]

there should be a new improved 2012-style banner imo, it's already cluttered as is

There's so much space up there. It would be so easy to just spread them out with a new design

[Dremn]

Just noticed that these two promotional artworks actually make up one giant piece.

...yea there's really nothing interesting to talk about anymore.

[Neobelmont]

Guess what I found


Best of E3 2012 Awards: Best 3DS Game [HD]

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Honestly I was not excepting them to win they better not disappoint  .

[shelverton.]

Mirror of Fate WINNING the "Best of E3" award in the 3DS category, on gametrailers.com? It beat things like New Super Mario Bros 2, and Paper Mario? That was pretty damn unexpected.

[Chernabogue]

That's great, i hope they won't disappoint.

[Inccubus]

Different parts of the series are always compared between each other, it is obvious. However, when there were only one game, there is simply NO defined standard. Everything can change especially since in the old days, games often went from hand of one team to the pther and no guarantee that the new team will like whatever previous team have created. Series gameplay is more or less save, when there were several games that set main basics. When there is one game - there is none of that. Copying original game's gameplay is not so much "following the standard" as a "following a safe route".

This is all completely false. Multiple teams working on the same series is a modern phenomenon. During the NES era companies were much smaller and did not have the resources to have multiple teams work on the same series. In fact what was most common back then was that the same team would work on multiple series. And, furthermore, the very notion that that the second game in a series has no standard is patently false. There are very few examples of a sequel being radically different from it's predecessor. The two most prominent ones being CV2 and LoZ2, but that was most definitely not the norm. And the third game almost always ended up going back to the original format. The only case I can think of off the top of my head is the Thunder Force series which withing the first 3 titles went from a top-down shooter to a side-scrolling shooter.

Besides, VK is not the same as CV1. Only things that common in two games are graphics (to certain extent) and action mechanic. Given that even genres of the two are different (dynamic action vs adventure / quest-like) they simply not the same game in different coating.
And CV2 is essentially improved version of VK - (hidden) merchants, hearts, multiple subweapons, that player can use at the same time, different equipment, open-world inspired by level-maps from VK. All of this are basically ideas that were taken from Vampire Killer and received new forms. The link between two games is painfully obvious. Yes, CV2 is more dynamic, but that is exactly why I said that CV2 was an atempt to merge CV1 and VK gameplay styles. I elaborate: CV2 was an attempt to merge dynamic action of original CV and exploration / quest-like elements of VK.

This is also false.

*CV1 and VK have nearly identical stage structure and very similar layouts. VK has more rooms in general because of the larger storage space available on the MSX. CV2 did not have this.

*You progress from stage to stage and cannot go back to explore previous stages in both games. VK added the need to find keys to unlock the door to the next stage in the current area. CV2 did not have this.

*Hidden merchants are shared between VK and CV2, even the graphics, they just don't live inside stone blocks anymore. I did for get to mention that there is one more thing VK and CV2 share and that's the Shield mechanic.

*Almost every castlevania game has hears. If you mean using them as currency, yes. That IS the other thing I said VK shares with CV2.

*VK is the ONLY cv game where the player can use multiple sub-weapons "at the same time". To be specific VK has only 2 sub-weapons. The Holy Water and the Hourglass. Once you find them they are both usable. To use HW jump, and press forward. To use HG jump and press down. All other weapons in VK replace the whip. In contrast the Sub-weapons in CV2 work the same way as in CV1 except that you don't loose them when you die, but you can still only use one at a time like in CV1.

*VK has MORE equipment, CV2 has DIFFERENT equipment. There's a difference.

*VK does NOT have an open world at all. There are no paths even. The stages are set up just like CV1.

If anything, CV2 was the very first attempt to make Castlevania more like Metroid.

[Sumac]

I'd rather Castlevania were laid to rest after Mercury Steam is done than see CV continue to be stretched past the point of death

This a way of true fans right here!! Let's our favorite series die and be forgotten, because it doesn't get another copypasted entry and was experimented a bit!! Yay!! So, we all can cry "When Castlevania will return" while series is forgotten completely.

You hear me, Konami?! Goddamn MARVEL COMICS is able to make the idea of two separate universes for the same franchise work within the means AND be profitable. IT CAN BE DONE!

Nope.
Game development take much more money than creating comic books, hence Konami will not spent their money to sustain two separate continuities out of desire to cater to the small group of old fans, when they can spent money  to make something more profitable, like new, modern and beautiful version of the CV game.

Multiple teams working on the same series is a modern phenomenon.

Yeah, and that's why classic Castlevania games were so different from each other in look and gameplay design and were released on the different consoles in the very short time. In the modern industry multiple teams usually work on new entries, indeed, but usually one at a time. Or there is one major entry in the series, and everything else is rather small and insignificant in the big picture (read - cheap to produce), that could be assigned to random team of developers (like Order of Shadow).

And, furthermore, the very notion that that the second game in a series has no standard is patently false. There are very few examples of a sequel being radically different from it's predecessor.

Let me reinstate this - second game in the would-be-series doesn't have solid standard. Usually second entry improves on all game mechanics but also introduce some changes. First game is a basis, not a standard. And this basis could be transformed into whatever developers later saw fit.

This is also false.

Most of your following statements are false.

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*CV1 and VK have nearly identical stage structure and very similar layouts. VK has more rooms in general because of the larger storage space available on the MSX. CV2 did not have this.

You haven't played VK, if you say this, or you played it very badly. Levels in VK have very little to do with stage structure of CV1. There are tonnes of additional areas and slight differences. Sections themselves built like minimaps looped on itself. While the general layout could be similar, levels themselves are practially complete different only reminding about CV1, but not copying it alltogether.
CV2 had one big looped area, that was derived from VK's minimaps idea.

*You progress from stage to stage and cannot go back to explore previous stages in both games. VK added the need to find keys to unlock the door to the next stage in the current area. CV2 did not have this.

Castlevania 2 is adheres to the adventure exploration genre, like VK, but in different context. It took VK aproach and expanded on it, abandoning level by level structure and replacing it with giant map and several submaps, that could be counted as mini stages, if you want. Much like in VK, you need to find different items and upgrades to progress through the game. You can't access some parts of the world map, if you didn't have Blue Crystal or Red Crystal. Also, you can't progress further in the game, if you didn't have certain equipment and upgraded weapons. In short, while CV2 is quite different it uses the same logic as VK, but expands on it.

*Hidden merchants are shared between VK and CV2, even the graphics, they just don't live inside stone blocks anymore. I did for get to mention that there is one more thing VK and CV2 share and that's the Shield mechanic.

Hidden Merchants in CV2 look like monks in grey (sometimes different coloured) robes. You maybe speak about Gypsies in the CV2, but I am not sure if they use the same graphic as Merchants in VK and besides you can't buy anything from them. They just spout some useless advices. Shield Mechanic is present, that is another proove of relation between CV2 and VK.

*VK has MORE equipment, CV2 has DIFFERENT equipment. There's a difference.

This statement is nonsense. CV2 has much more weapons and equipment in the game as a whole. And idea of having multiple weapons and equipment (and ability to use them at the same time) in CV2 was certainly inspired by VK, however it was present there in much more user-friendly form.

*VK is the ONLY cv game where the player can use multiple sub-weapons "at the same time". To be specific VK has only 2 sub-weapons. The Holy Water and the Hourglass. Once you find them they are both usable. To use HW jump, and press forward. To use HG jump and press down. All other weapons in VK replace the whip. In contrast the Sub-weapons in CV2 work the same way as in CV2 except that you don't loose them when you die, but you can still only use one at a time like in CV1.

Nope.
In CV2 you can also use multiple subweapons at the same time. Use Flame Pillar, activate menu, throw Diamond or a Dagger. It maybe different from how you can use multiple subweapons in VK, but it is still works.
And there is no need to explain for me VK mechanics - few months ago I made a one life playthrough of this game and wrote a review about it. AI did the same about CV2 too.

*VK does NOT have an open world at all. There are no paths even. The stages are set up just like CV1.

VK stages set up in completely different fashion rather once that could be found in CV1. Each section is a looped minimap that is often have intricate, puzzle like design. There are still somewhat linear, but nowhere near the straightforward design of the CV1 levels.

If anything, CV2 was the very first attempt to make Castlevania more like Metroid.

Finally some logical statement. However CV2 ideas were heavily derived form VK. It is simply couldn't be argued. Too many coincidences in the design between the two games.

I wonder why my previous post received minuses? For having different opinion? Well, that's a friendly, open-minded fandom for you, where old fans allowed to be jerks and express they disadain however they like and people who disagree with their opinion are repressed.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

It's not like you get reprimanded by having respect down.  You're not really being so 'repressed'.
Don't be so dramatic.  There is really no downside at all from that aside from your post being somewhat unpopular.

I don't even understand why people even post about their respect points anyway.
Just think of it as "I posted something that resonated with the people, its value determines whether it was a negatively or positive resonance".  Not "OH GAWD I'M SO REPRESSED THIS SYSTEM IS STUPID GET RID OF IT", as the few PMs I get seem to suggest.

[Johnny Alucard]

Mirror of Fate WINNING the "Best of E3" award in the 3DS category, on gametrailers.com? It beat things like New Super Mario Bros 2, and Paper Mario? That was pretty damn unexpected.

It's not surprising. New Super Mario Bros. 2, while it looked fun, showed that the New Mario Bros series is following the same formula with new gimmicks.  Plus no Wario.  Meanwhile, there is a lot of controversy over the sticker system and the lack of partners for Paper Mario.

Thus, Mirror of Fate's already impressive showing made it a sure winner in that category.

[Maedhros]

That sounds like a good idea, actually. Maybe one just for the new timeline.

Nopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenope.

[Sumac]

Don't be so dramatic.  There is really no downside at all from that aside from your post being somewhat unpopular.

I am not afraid of being unpopular, I don't care about it.
However, I prefer when people who dislike my opinion express what they dislike and why. All this "respect points system" allow people to hide behind anonimity and vote down on the personal emotion "like author / dislike author" and not because posts were unpopular, offensive or something like that. It's not constructive and leads to mutual dislike and misunderstanding.
Also this system potentially could create conditions when some people have a negative points simply because they uphold a different opinions, however others (new forumgoers or random visitors) could think of it as those are "bad" people who are wrong, vandals or whatever. This undermines idea of people being eaqually allowed to express their opinions give a way to possibility of such people being humilated and ostracized for their different mindset.
In short it's not an issue about popularity, but about equality.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I think you're overreacting, and I also think that posts complaining about the respect/popularity forum mod do a great job at derailing the threads they're in.

Please return to the original subject of this thread, or take it to Off Topic somewhere.

[uzo]

However, I prefer when people who dislike my opinion express what they dislike and why.

The people who '-1' and don't reply are the same people that use to just shake their heads and not reply. The ONLY difference now is that you can actually quantify those people.

[crisis]

It also doesn't help your case when you're always belittling/criticizing the "old, tired" fans of the classic canon as a "small, insignificant" group. There's quite a lot of us, but w/e

I guess it's a good thing that MoF won the best of 3ds e3 award. but i hope that doesn't give MS an excuse to ignore the rather obvious & glaring complaints the game's receiving already. not just framerate issues, but all the other stuff (enemies, music, et cetera) I have high hopes *fingers crossed*


this made me chuckle