Topic: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (1999 Fan Project)

[Dracula9]

I should probably post this finally--nearly forgot about it. 

https://soundcloud.com/dracula9antichapel/castlevania-umbra-of-sorrow-the-count-voice-demo

[Shiroi Koumori]

@plot: Ooohhhh nice track. I have a feeling what that moment is.
@D9: yes! More more!

[TatteredSeraph]

Great demo for Drac, D9.  OMG though, Last Light is amazing!  Love it.  It sounds like an official CV track.  Love it.

[darkmanx_429]

I should probably post this finally--nearly forgot about it. 

https://soundcloud.com/dracula9antichapel/castlevania-umbra-of-sorrow-the-count-voice-demo

This is seriously really good. Have you done this professionally D9? If not, you should.

[Dracula9]

Working on it. 

Now that my pop filter's finally arrived and my soundproofing barrier is being built, I can go after this stuff a bit more head-on.

[theplottwist]

Hello!

Today I come to ask you to give your opinion on a point on Umbra's development. Before I ask, I need to clarify one thing I already did on this thread: There is a game-designing document being created for this in case it becomes a game. Now, with that said, I want your opinion on the following:

In the game version of this project, an enemy is introduced to drive home a plot point: The Bogeyman. The Bogeyman is a creature who manifests as its prey's worst fears, intending to weaken them to consume them easily. This enemy will appear to three characters in the story, one of them being Alucard. Alucard's greatest fear is of turning into a complete vampire. Therefore, the Bogeyman appears as Alucard himself -- but fully vampirized, and in a scene evoking Alucard's own psyche.

During the development of this enemy, I proposed an idea, and my partner proposed another. Then we proposed counterpoints to these ideas, and came to disagreement. The two ideas are the following:

1. The Bogeyman manifests to Alucard as Alucard himself in full vampire mode. The arena changes to the village where Alucard's mother was killed. The village is burning, in reference to the first and only time Alucard succumbed to his vampiric urges, mentioned on the Radio Drama to happen in the same place. Nothing else is present but the burning village, Alucard and his own vampire persona.

2. The Bogeyman manifests to Alucard as Alucard himself in full vampire mode. The arena changes to the village where Alucard's mother was killed, referencing her sacrifice and last words. Also a reference to SotN, where the Succubus tries tempting Alucard. Alucard witnesses his full-vampire persona slaughtering the villagers that killed his mother while her corpse overlooks the carnage like a grim harbinger, thus not only succumbing to his dark side but also denying his mother's dying wishes and attacking humans out of vengeance and hatred.

The counterpoints are the following:

Counterpoint to idea 2 and defense of idea 1:

(click to show/hide)

Idea 1 is better. Adding the burning village doesn't detract from the players' unfamiliarness to the lore since the same village from SotN's "Nightmare" is present, still linking them with the familiar symbolic representation of the village on his mind. Fans familiar with the Radio Drama get an extra fan service for recognizing the scene, while fans unfamiliar with it lose nothing -- it's the same village with the same symbolic significance after all. It's important to set this appearance of the village apart from it's previous appearance in SotN for novelty, but still link it to important events on Alucard's life. He lived one when his mother died, and another when his vampiric side was exposed, thus the choice for the second, "burning" version of the village is favored, as the first version is already present on the canon. Keeps the symbolism, gets a new visual. Also important of note is that this scene is referencing a past event ("see what can happen?"), not evoking it ("look what you did!") -- thus why Magnus the Inccubus is not present.

Counterpoint to idea 1 and defense of idea 2:

(click to show/hide)

Idea 2 suffices without requiring the radio drama, due to the key elements of Alucard's entire moral compass being explained in SotN--he lives by the final wishes of his mother, and strives to do good by humanity and not fall to his darker side and become what his father is. By expanding further on Alucard's fear--which stems in no small part from his unshakeable dedication to Lisa's last words--and having his Bogeyman not only show what he could become, but the ultimate extreme of what he could become by also discarding the foundation and source of the very moral code he lives by.

In addition, it must be considered that there will be many potential players who know nothing of the radio drama, and while a reference only understood by some isn't inherently bad, relying on such a source provides a context which those unaware players will not have, and thus the scene involving Magnus would lose some portion of its impact.

Thirdly, the Bogeyman provides purely hypothetical worst-fear/worst-case scenarios for each character it appears to; therefore, having it manifest as a confirmed canonical scene (the village-burning from the radio drama), the Bogeyman is doing something different for Alucard than it does for the others, when there is no inherent reason or importance from a writing perspective for it to change its presented methods for the sake of an inside reference.

The other two characters will simply see hypotheticals of their deepest subconscious fears realized and confronting them, but Alucard would simply be reminded of something that actually already happened. Alucard going vampire and burning the village may be a realization of his worst fear, but that scenario could, of course, always be made worse--one small village does not compare to the other millions and millions Alucard could slaughter and feed from if he chose such a path. Therefore, expanding on the themes that made the radio drama scene effective and having the Bogeyman manifest as a complete and utter refusal of everything Alucard stands for (his mother and her dying wishes to do well by humanity even if they show no gratitude) is a step up in realizing Alucard's deepest fear. Simply being reminded of something he already lives with and fighting another knockoff Doppleganger would be a picnic for him, since it can't show him anything he's not already confronted before. But a version of himself which abandons Lisa's manifesto is something he has yet to confront--Alucard is so steadfast in his loyalty to her ideals that such a scenario likely seems unthinkable, and thereby would have an actual impact on him beyond simply being reminded of that really embarrassing and unpleasant thing he did a long time ago.

I will not say who proposed what idea or counterpoint for a reason: You might end up biased. I'm not looking to be appeased, but to choose between two ideas which there is no agreement. The points and counterpoints here are written by its creators in their own words as to not incur on misrepresentation.

I'm also not telling who my development partner is for the same reason as before: Turning this into a game is not a 100% certainty and I don't want people expecting a burden from a person who would be doing this out of free will.

So, that's it. Please give your opinions.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Hmmm... I actually prefer idea 1.
Even if someone does not know about the Radio drama, the burning village is good enough to show an alternate reality.

[Chernabogue]

Idea 1 is better. Keep it simple and not too explicit.

[SecretWeapon]

1 would be better. You could always have him just finishing "feeding" to further drive the point.

Alternatively you could go for something completely different and have Alucard Lord of Castlevania

[theplottwist]

So it's three votes for idea 1. If anyone else wishes to vote, please comment here.

The next update is near. On this update I'll reveal one more artwork, one more character, and also elaborate a little on what the game-design ideas at this point are. I'll try to explain what exactly is the "game" situation for this project right now, because it's pretty obvious there is something game-y going on.

But I'll always repeat: The story is the primary focus and will probably come out before anything resembling a game does.

[Shiroi Koumori]

I can't wait for the next update.

[Intersection]

Just my own opinion:

I like the role the character is supposed to fulfill, but why go for the Bogeyman? It's a tired, American horror trope that's been used for cheap scares in almost every kind of horror game, save for Castlevania. I mean, if you're looking for an already existent "nightmare character", there's Paranoia in CV itself. Otherwise, I'd love to see a similarly-inspired character from your local mythologies you've spoken to me about.

For voting purposes: I vote for 2. It lends a sense of poignancy to the scene that the first scenario doesn't fully deliver on.

[theplottwist]

I like the role the character is supposed to fulfill, but why go for the Bogeyman? It's a tired, American horror trope that's been used for cheap scares in almost every kind of horror game, save for Castlevania. I mean, if you're looking for an already existent "nightmare character", there's Paranoia in CV itself. Otherwise, I'd love to see a similarly-inspired character from your local mythologies you've spoken to me about.

The Bogeyman was chosen specifically for the reason you used as demerit: It's a tired horror trope, as the werewolf, the vampire, the zombie, the skeleton, the ghost, the horned demon, the Grim Reaper, etc etc etc. Bogeyman is one of the creatures of classic horror cliché that never made an appearance on a game where classic, cheesy horror clichés are at home.

Another reason for the Bogeyman to appear is that one single well-known monster from culture was needed to replace the Succubus and the Doppelganger at the same time, playing a similar role while giving me freedom to create upon -- something an already established monster such as Paranoia doesn't allow. At the present moment there is a conscious effort to avoid using the Succubus and the Doppelganger anywhere in this project.

I'm adding creatures from my own folklore, but only one has the possibility of making it in as a powerful creature/mid-boss (which is one IGA himself expressed he'd make into a boss, given the opportunity), which is the Headless Mule. The Bogeyman equivalent of the brazilian/Tupi mythos is the demon "Jurupari", yet the Bogeyman is far more well-known than the Jurupari even in Brazil (known as "Bicho Papão"). None of the brazilian-myth monsters present on the game version are present on the story version.

A little more about the Bogeyman's relevance:

The character is present on the project with the sole purpose of being a context-sensitive enemy, not an active character. It has no plot-relevant speaking role, plot twists or anything generally reserved for complexly-constructed characters. It's existence is context relevant, but not plot heavy. Its presence is meant to assist (not guide) the story in an unique way when it's not being told -- hence why it exists on the game version and not in the story version. If the story has the entire spotlight, then the Bogeyman is not needed as this specific plot-mechanic will support itself through the character's inner conflict.

Sure, of course I understand that you can write a story and still have the Bogeyman be relevant. But that's not the point: If I'm writing about one character's personal fear, I'll represent it on a more contrived manner than "a monster trying to eat you" which, quite honestly, is what the Bogeyman ultimately is. The point of the Bogeyman is to be a context-sensitive enemy for the character to symbolically overcome their fear without the need for any words -- thus why it is a game-only asset. The more words I can/must use to convey this overcoming, the less "visual" the conflict needs to be, and less important the Bogeyman becomes.

[SecretWeapon]

Unrelated but have you thought a reason to why is Yoko named...well..."Yoko"

[theplottwist]

Unrelated but have you thought a reason to why is Yoko named...well..."Yoko"

Yes. Yoko is of partially japanese descent. Lenora Belnades is her mother, but has no japanese ancestry whatsoever. How is that possible is covered on Umbra's plot, but I'll say right now that it's not a surprise. It's pretty predictable and somewhat unnoteworthy, actually.