Topic: Let's discuss A Clockwork Orange

[Mooning Freddy]

Yeah, you hooligans, I know many of you read the book or at least watched the movie. I just read that thing and I feel like there are so many things to discuss about it.

First of all, I hate Alex. He is the worst kind of evil character that I ever encountered. And it's not about him being a disgusting sadist, murderer and anarchist. It's all that, plus his impossibly disturbing hypocrisy. Being the kind of abominable being that he is, I am incredibly annoyed by the way he, the narrator, sees himself as a nice guy. He is highly intelligent, knows perfectly that what he is doing is wrong and evil, and nevertheless he thinks of himself as "quite a nice person" who is just "fooling around" and is disgusted by the presence of "real criminals" in jail. Plus, when he is punished for his crimes he thinks it's injustice. I could have hated him much less if the kid at least had a little dignity to acknowledge that he's as bad as the rest of the scum in prison.

Second of all, what do you think of the "treatment" he received? I know that half of the story's criticism is about how the treatment is not right by taking away his ability to choose between good and evil, yet in Alex's case and similar cases, I would totally approve of it as he would under no other condition choose to be a righteous citizen.

Your say?

[Ratty]

Yeah, you hooligans, I know many of you read the book or at least watched the movie. I just read that thing and I feel like there are so many things to discuss about it.

First of all, I hate Alex. He is the worst kind of evil character that I ever encountered. And it's not about him being a disgusting sadist, murderer and anarchist. It's all that, plus his impossibly disturbing hypocrisy. Being the kind of abominable being that he is, I am incredibly annoyed by the way he, the narrator, sees himself as a nice guy. He is highly intelligent, knows perfectly that what he is doing is wrong and evil, and nevertheless he thinks of himself as "quite a nice person" who is just "fooling around" and is disgusted by the presence of "real criminals" in jail. Plus, when he is punished for his crimes he thinks it's injustice. I could have hated him much less if the kid at least had a little dignity to acknowledge that he's as bad as the rest of the scum in prison.

Second of all, what do you think of the "treatment" he received? I know that half of the story's criticism is about how the treatment is not right by taking away his ability to choose between good and evil, yet in Alex's case and similar cases, I would totally approve of it as he would under no other condition choose to be a righteous citizen.

Your say?

I've not read the book but I was quite fascinated by the film some years ago and would have read the original work if I'd had access to an unedited version. The original American editions omitted the last chapter in which Alex is shown to be fully cured and a good person, something Kubrick also left out of his movie.

I don't think Alex is supposed to think he's a good person though, he is just presenting himself as a good person to us. We're an audience just like the prison chaplin* who think's he's a good Christian for memorizing the Bible when really he's fantasizing about helping in the crucifixion. I think part of the point there is that we never really know what's going on in someone's head, and our presumptions are often wrong.  He refers to us as "his only friends" and he uses Nadsat, the Russian influenced (remember this was during the cold war) fake slang language to dull the shock of what he's doing. "The old in-out" sounds better than "rape" for example, at least until you realize that's what it means. He's an extreme sadist, but he feels very deeply, we're moved by his descriptions of the arts for example.

In the end though the Ludavico technique takes away his ability to be good or bad, he's just a victim. In the latter half of the story we see that his former victims can be just as inhumane as he. Basically, at least as Kubrick paints it, the world is less "good and bad" as it is the powerful and the powerless, torturers and victims. Even the idealistic journalist gives up his attempt to help the common people to get revenge on a now-helpless Alex.
It's a great and deeply disturbing movie that can be read many ways. One thing's for sure though, you'll never hear "Singing in the Rain" the same way again.

*Or "Charlie" a play on Charlie Chaplin, probably my favorite Nadsat-ism.

PS- As well as being a victim he also becomes an automaton. Without free will to choose how we act, we're basically "Clockwork" people.

[Abnormal Freak]

The movie has lots of tits.

Oh, it's also a really good movie with a great score.

[Gunlord]

I enjoyed the movie, but I thought the original book was much better. The end chapter is REALLY important, IMO, without it the point the author tried to make is occluded entirely.

[Mooning Freddy]

The movie has lots of tits.

Oh, it's also a really good movie with a great score.

That has got to be the most constructive review I've ever heard. 10/10

The Best Part in Beavis & Butthead Do America

*facepalm*

[Super Waffle]

One time I said I liked Clockwork Orange, someone on uh... I think it was SomethingAwful asked me if was because I personally identified with Alex.

They were referring to my writing style.

[Gunlord]

I was about to say the same thing, Waffle-kun.