Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Ahasverus]

Dance of Illusions is still king BUT this theme is amazing.

And I hope you remember we already heard the battle form of it

Castlevania Concert in the Play Fest Festival "The Return of Final Combat"

[Shiitake]

I think what they did there is tremendous: eerie side being Dracula’s theme, with the player also drawn back to and reminded of the prologue and Dracula's resurrection—the reason for the quest; Simon’s Theme: culmination of the adventure, and rather than Dracula being centre stage, it's Simon.  Dracula’s destruction is at hand.

Wow, elegant read! I really like how you put that.
 
I beat the game not a week ago. At the end, I drawn back to prologue just like you said and felt strange and complex feelings. It was also sad because when I heard the theme I realized that the one of most enjoyable CV games I've ever played is about to end. Then Simon's theme started and changed to mood, but it was a nice shift and overall satisfying end.

It also made me feel sorry for Dracula, maybe for the first time. Because when I fight him while hearing the prologue music, the image of his forgotten gravestone couldn't get out my mind.

[Flame]

SCIV isn't the only game to have done that. In fact, many CV Dracula incarnations have been given different themes for their different forms.

Except all of those are actually exclusively battle themes, where the Dracula theme in SCIV is used twice before then, in the intro, and the Castle Keep. It's not a unique piece in that regard.

[Intersection]

Dance of Illusions is still king BUT this theme is amazing.

And I hope you remember we already heard the battle form of it

Castlevania Concert in the Play Fest Festival "The Return of Final Combat"

Interesting. I wasn't aware they hosted a LoS2 concert.
Yet the major drawback of these formal musical performances is that the music that's being interpreted was never meant to be played in a formal setting in the first place. It was composed to give a suitable ambiance to a large-scale battle, not to be performed on its own.
Listen to Araujo's suite. It's almost gruesomely tedious and repetitive. And that has nothing to do with the composer's skill or musicality -- it just has to do with the role his music was supposed to play. Most of his piece is a monotonous stream of insistent, agitated musical beats, rolling across different instruments to give it an illusion of variety. That's perfectly suited for a battle, but it's practically infuriating when listened to on its own.
This pattern remains uninterrupted until halfway through the fourth minute, when the music momentarily dies down to return forcefully with an impressive tutti. Here, we get occasional bribes of Drac's melody, along with sweeping orchestral roars predictably orchestrated through voice and brass. But there's very little substance to it; its only purpose was to give the player a feeling of exaltation during an inspiring battle, and provides very little melodic depth to the piece. It's essentially the blaring trumpets and choirs you'd hear in a Lord of The Rings theme; it "wows" you for a moment, but doesn't exactly keep you listening.

Don't get me wrong here; Araujo is by no means a bad composer. It takes a great deal of talent to capture a sense of atmosphere as well as he did in Lords of Shadow. The only problem here is a conceptual one -- video game music isn't created for stage performance, and in most cases shouldn't be formally interpreted... It belongs in the game itself, where it can thrive.

Except all of those are actually exclusively battle themes, where the Dracula theme in SCIV is used twice before then, in the intro, and the Castle Keep. It's not a unique piece in that regard.

Dracula's theme in SCIV is unique. It it only teased earlier in the game, never entirely fleshed out. In the intro, it instantly seizes the game's eerie, foreboding tone, but doesn't show more -- take as a kind of foreshadowing, if it's appropriate. And it's only in Simon's final encounter that those vague fears materialize. It's probably the most unique Dracula theme in the series.
As for Simon's Theme, Silverlord is right. Once Dracula reaches his 'second form', Simon now has the upper hand, and his theme follows to bring the battle to a close, just as it opened it at the game's beginning. It's some extraordinary musical planning that I haven't found in any other CV.

[Flame]

Dracula's theme in SCIV is unique. It it only teased earlier in the game, never entirely fleshed out. In the intro, it instantly seizes the game's eerie, foreboding tone, but doesn't show more -- take as a kind of foreshadowing, if it's appropriate. And it's only in Simon's final encounter that those vague fears materialize. It's probably the most unique Dracula theme in the series.

I just don't buy that logic. That's not "teasing". It's just asset reuse. Either it's supposed to be a Dracula theme or an intro theme, who knows, but it's used for both. IMO, and this goes back to what someone here said about LoS in comparison to SCIV, SCIV has a similar "sinister" kind of moody feel to it, like a movie. It's soundtrack is deep and fleshed out, not just catchy chiptunes, some stages have 2 different tracks to them depending on the area. Definitely ambitious. When it comes to Dracula, instead of just pulling out a Dracula battle theme, they keep the eerie mellow theme from the intro, playing in the castle keep. It's actually stage music, not boss music playing... To make you feel like this is it, this is the end. Then Simon starts kicking ass, and we get his theme playing for triumphant feels.

Either way, We'll have to agree to disagree, because I don't consider SCIV's "Dracula theme" to be his theme at all, but the Intro theme reused for the final area.

[Rugal]

Dance of Illusions is still king BUT this theme is amazing.

And I hope you remember we already heard the battle form of it

Castlevania Concert in the Play Fest Festival "The Return of Final Combat"

This sounds like evil clown music to be honest with you.

[shelverton.]

This sounds like evil clown music to be honest with you.

Now all I see when listening to it is Kefka from Final Fantasy 6. Or Dhoulmagus from Dragon Quest 8. And a crazy laughter in the background

But anyway, I can accept boss battles sounding like this in a Castlevania game. In my personal opinion, it's unbearable to listen to - yes, I dislike it a lot - but for evil bosses it's tolerable and makes sense. I can listen to the final boss music from pretty much any Castlevania, but this will not be listened to outside the game. I'd go mad.

[Chernabogue]

This sounds like evil clown music to be honest with you.

This sounds like evil troll to be honest with you. 

Seriously, this sounds really awesome, and it'll be even better on the OST.

[Rugal]

Except that I am not trolling. I'm giving an honest opinion.

The fact that Shelverton partially agreed with me should have at least given you that inclination, no? I mean, it's great that they have a full orchestra and all, but again the music just sounds very stock and outright bad at times. Again, just an opinion.

If you want well done game orchestrated music, go check out how they redid the Kingdom Hearts soundtrack with the 1.5 HD release.

[Intersection]

I just don't buy that logic. That's not "teasing". It's just asset reuse. Either it's supposed to be a Dracula theme or an intro theme, who knows, but it's used for both. IMO, and this goes back to what someone here said about LoS in comparison to SCIV, SCIV has a similar "sinister" kind of moody feel to it, like a movie. It's soundtrack is deep and fleshed out, not just catchy chiptunes, some stages have 2 different tracks to them depending on the area. Definitely ambitious. When it comes to Dracula, instead of just pulling out a Dracula battle theme, they keep the eerie mellow theme from the intro, playing in the castle keep. It's actually stage music, not boss music playing... To make you feel like this is it, this is the end. Then Simon starts kicking ass, and we get his theme playing for triumphant feels.

Either way, We'll have to agree to disagree, because I don't consider SCIV's "Dracula theme" to be his theme at all, but the Intro theme reused for the final area.

Hm. I think we actually agree here, but our opinions are inverted. 
We both agree about the asset reuse, but I see Dracula's theme being reused in the intro, and you see it the other way around.
The way I'm looking at it makes me feel that there's some intricate foreshadowing at work; the way you're looking at it makes you believe the developers were simply lazy. But I still think I've chosen the more... poetic point of view.

In any case, I'm entirely on par with you as to the general soundtrack. It was a subtle but compelling change of pace among the other CV titles. And that's one of the things that makes it so unique.

As for the LoS soundtrack, they might very well be comparable, but I still feel LoS's music adapted to its atmosphere in a very different manner.

[The Silverlord]

I just don't buy that logic. That's not "teasing". It's just asset reuse.

Also can't argue about them re-using two BGM pieces during the battle.

I think there's a tendency to interpret the term 'asset re-use' in a negative context, as it seems deeply disparaging; i.e. that not enough thought or time and effort was put into something.

I simply don't see the re-use of these two themes in that negative light, or see the necessity of a single battle theme in their place.  That's not to say that wouldn't have worked, or made the battle even better.  But I think the finale was by design.  Everything about that final level has been carefully thought through.

Furthermore, the sound team were certainly good enough they could have created another piece, had they wanted to.  That last level features many BGM pieces.

BTW, I love the fact that Sumac +1'd your post, if I recall correctly, he loves Castlevania asset re-recycling.

[DragonSlayr81]

Except that I am not trolling. I'm giving an honest opinion.

The fact that Shelverton partially agreed with me should have at least given you that inclination, no? I mean, it's great that they have a full orchestra and all, but again the music just sounds very stock and outright bad at times. Again, just an opinion.

If you want well done game orchestrated music, go check out how they redid the Kingdom Hearts soundtrack with the 1.5 HD release.

I actually agree with you. It sounds like something I can see fitting into a Final Fantasy movie. Now that I think of it, so does the Dracula Theme. The Dracula Theme, in particular, has a melodic hook not unlike the kinds you'd hear from Uematsu or Shimomura. The heavy use of chanting almost post-FFVII Uematsu(it seems like since One-Winged Angel, he always finds an excuse to put chanting in some of his epic themes or final boss battles, especially Latin chanting).

[Chernabogue]

If you want well done game orchestrated music, go check out how they redid the Kingdom Hearts soundtrack with the 1.5 HD release.

Already did, thanks for the tip. (Even if most of the tracks aren't featuring real instruments.)

Guess we all have different opinions, that's all.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to give the OST a good listen.

[Munchy]

This sounds like evil clown music to be honest with you.

Hm... I'm not super impressed with it either, but "evil clown" is how I would describe Danny Elfman's music. This sounds more like Araujo waved his hand at the orchestra and said, "Well, uh, make something menacing sounding. I dunno. C'mon guys, chop chop, lunch is in fifteen minutes." Of course, this isn't to disparage the quality of the orchestra. But you know the saying - good actors can't save a bad script. (I wouldn't say "bad" in this case... more like lukewarm.)

I don't like LoS music outside of the context of the game though, so that might explain it.

Although "Return of Final Combat" sounds like a fucking amazing game title in itself.

[Ahasverus]

Yeah I'm not a SUPER FAN of this track either, Final Confrontation was better, it has its moments though. I /guess/ that the final battle is so dan intentse and full with flashy stuff that he was ordered to make the track the less distracting possible. I want to believe.