Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[beingthehero]

I know 4 people who died from cox's lie, e105beta.

[e105beta]

Cox murdered my father in cold blood, but that's not the point! It wasn't the lies that killed him.

[Dracul_Belmont]

Apparently there will be a boss rush mode or something like that according to Cox. But then again, he is a liar lol

[Kingshango]

A month ago the leak guy came through and said that there's an arena mode in Los2, so that's probably it.

[theplottwist]

You're grossly exaggerating how complex it is to make an, IMO, very poor point.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatManIsDead

It's a very, very common trope.

What is a very poor point? Me unlinking Cox spoilerrific antics? Ha, that's cute.

You know what is also a common trope? Writing a decent story, and not spoiling it's twist before the time, or people will bark at
you. Not that he cares, but still...

Trevor becoming Alucard, I WILL admit that would be a good twist on this timeline, but the worst thing Cox did was spoiling his appearance, then lying about it, then we finding out that he can't ever keep a blanket on his own story to make it interesting.

Did anyone say we can't call him Trevor? Dracula calls him Trevor.

Am I saying anything about people calling him Trevor or Alucard? I think I made myself quite clear that what I hated was Cox's little "misleading" info. THAT is what gets me. And there are people jumping right in front of Cox to defend him, saying that, in fact Alucard is not Trevor. And you would be surprised with the ammount of times I called "Alucard" Trevor, and people jumped right in to correct me. Gimme a break.

Stow the drama for a second, will you? Nobody is saying "OMG TREVOR ISN'T ALUCARD IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, OR VICE VERSA. THEY ARE TWO DISTINCT BEINGS ORIGINATING FROM TWO SEPARATE SOURCES". The point is that Cox was running MoF's PR at the point of making that statement, and upon being asked the biggest spoiler of the game, chose no to spoil it and instead responded with what ultimately amounted to a very PR answer.

The drama is only inside your head. Also, nobody is saying that Alucard is not Trevor? I recommend you do a quick skim through the responses not only on this topic, but everywhere on the internet.

I don't get why people get so "Cox lied, people died" about it. Sure, he could have abstained from answering the question, but he didn't, and the answer works if you're not being flat out literal about it.

"Sure, he could have abstained from answering the question"

THIS. This is the whole point.

My opinion is simply: "Cox lied about his own plot twist to ensure the success of it, yet it was outright predictable and disappointing, leading me to think that maybe Cox doesn't have such a firm grasp on the story after all".
He could've abstained, but what he did was generate a bunch of fans that will swear that Alucard is not Trevor. See what I mean?

Also, I'm entitled to my opinion, much like you are. But the fact "Cox lied" is not malleable to opinions. He lied, spoiled his own twist, and that's it, period. "Cox lied, people died" because these people actually DO care for the plot, and hates when they are spoiled about it. It's even worse when the own creator of the work spoils it for you.

That's the WHOLE problem. The spoiling. It ruined the surprise. And it got even worse when Cox decided to "unspoil" the whole thing, just to have the game itself call him a liar. If he's able to sacrifice his own twist to earn some publicity, what more is he able to do?

My opinion on the matter is that, amazingly, this is the only thing I hate about his trilogy and himself. The game? I like it a lot and cannot wait for the sequel.

Also, is anyone aware if MoF will come for PC anytime soon?

[e105beta]

I'm just going to post this again, because I don't think you took a second to even look at it:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatManIsDead

There is a common trope where characters lose themselves in their alter egos or leave behind past selves that they, for one reason or another, want to leave behind. When Alucard says "Trevor died along time ago, father, I am Alucard" he's being symbolic. It doesn't mean he's contradictory or lying, it means that he no longer sees himself as the man known as Trevor, and acknowledges that his old life is gone. In his eyes, Trevor was a human knight of the Brotherhood. Now he's some disgusting vampire. His essence, his humanity, has changed, and he's adopted the new persona of Alucard to distance himself from his old self.

Yes, it's semantics, but language is full of semantics. You can sit there and say "Cox is a liar" because Alucard used to be Trevor, and obviously he was being dodgy to avoid spoiling the twist, but there are philosophical grounds to the contrary, and plenty of movies/books/games play with it all the time. Also, getting upset about it is dumb. It's marketing, the whole point is to get you talking about it.

Also, Konami spoiled nothing. They revealed too much, maybe, but everyone figured out Trevor becomes Alucard on their own, and there was enough uncertainty that people were arguing that they were two distinct figures up until the very end.

[theplottwist]

I'm just going to post this again, because I don't think you took a second to even look at it:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatManIsDead

Please don't insult my intelligence. Even if I had no idea of what TV Tropes is or the activities the tropers take, supposing I didn't try reading it is going many limbs off. Even the title of the trope is basically Exactly What it Says on the Tin.

There is a common trope where characters lose themselves in their alter egos or leave behind past selves that they, for one reason or another, want to leave behind. When Alucard says "Trevor died along time ago, father, I am Alucard" he's being symbolic. It doesn't mean he's contradictory or lying, it means that he no longer sees himself as the man known as Trevor, and acknowledges that his old life is gone. In his eyes, Trevor was a human knight of the Brotherhood. Now he's some disgusting vampire. His essence, his humanity, has changed, and he's adopted the new persona of Alucard to distance himself from his old self.

That's exactly why, in my previous response, I pointed out this exact same thing. It's all about the symbolism of losing one's self. However, interpretation and symbolism are subjective. The fact that Trevor is Alucard is not. Just to clarify, I know that you know that Trevor is Alucard. The point I'm trying to make refers to the fact that Cox's failure of an evasion became sort of a "shield" of semantics used by people defending him.

Yes, it's semantics, but language is full of semantics. You can sit there and say "Cox is a liar" because Alucard used to be Trevor, and obviously he was being dodgy to avoid spoiling the twist, but there are philosophical grounds to the contrary, and plenty of movies/books/games play with it all the time. Also, getting upset about it is dumb. It's marketing, the whole point is to get you talking about it.

I'd call it "failure marketing". Indeed he got people talking. Talking trash. Getting upset because he spoiled the main selling point of his game is seriously dumb, but not for me. Makes people like me question his intelligence or greediness and carelessness. On my specific case, I have no doubt that Cox is an intelligent man, but I fear that he does not care so much for the game or the plot as to not spoil it. Like you said, he could have simply ignored the questions.

Also, Konami spoiled nothing. They revealed too much, maybe, but everyone figured out Trevor becomes Alucard on their own, and there was enough uncertainty that people were arguing that they were two distinct figures up until the very end.

People didn't figure it out of the blue, with zero spoilers at all. They figured it RIGHT when very revealing images of the twist, namely "Alucard", started appearing on the internet.
It's not like people had a magic ball and started asking. They started comparing promotional art released by Konami, with other plot points and characters released by Konami. So yes, Konami pretty much spoiled itself. Without any "obvious revealing", the fans would never, EVER guess Alucard's identity. Not until they started playing as Alucard, at least.

[crisis]

a few of us here at the Dungeon were jokingly and mockingly throwing around the name "Alucard Belmont" well before MoF was even officially announced, lol

[e105beta]

That's exactly why, in my previous response, I pointed out this exact same thing. It's all about the symbolism of losing one's self. However, interpretation and symbolism are subjective.  The fact that Trevor is Alucard is not. Just to clarify, I know that you know that Trevor is Alucard. The point I'm trying to make refers to the fact that Cox's failure of an evasion became sort of a "shield" of semantics used by people defending him.

Of course they're subjective. Language is all about perspective, which is why the question "Is Trevor Alucard?" can be answered "Yes" or "No". Yes, in the sense that Trevor becomes Alucard, no, in the sense that Trevor refers to the human Knight of the Brotherhood and Alucard refers to the vampire. It's all about perspective, and when dealing with PR, any socially normative context for perspective goes out the window.

I'd call it "failure marketing". Indeed he got people talking. Talking trash. Getting upset because he spoiled the main selling point of his game is seriously dumb, but not for me. Makes people like me question his intelligence or greediness and carelessness. On my specific case, I have no doubt that Cox is an intelligent man, but I fear that he does not care so much for the game or the plot as to not spoil it. Like you said, he could have simply ignored the questions

People didn't figure it out of the blue, with zero spoilers at all. They figured it RIGHT when very revealing images of the twist, namely "Alucard", started appearing on the internet.
It's not like people had a magic ball and started asking. They started comparing promotional art released by Konami, with other plot points and characters released by Konami. So yes, Konami pretty much spoiled itself. Without any "obvious revealing", the fans would never, EVER guess Alucard's identity. Not until they started playing as Alucard, at least.

Any press is good press, or so they say.

And you spend more than a third of the game playing as Alucard. They revealed him because he's a major selling point, and if all they did was put out a picture or two and a voice line, then I'd say Konami, and Cox by extension, played MoF's plot far closer to the vest than the vast majority of games that get released nowadays. You can call that a spoiler if you like, but it just looks like advertising to me.

[Shiroi Koumori]

a few of us here at the Dungeon were jokingly and mockingly throwing around the name "Alucard Belmont" well before MoF was even officially announced, lol

Dungeonites can predict the future. hehehe. 

[DragonSlayr81]

It's not a lie at all. Alucard himself even agrees.

"Trevor died a long time ago father. I am Alucard."

Yeah, and I'm Jerry Cougar Mellencamp.

1
:  to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2
:  to create a false or misleading impression

... yeah.

Yup, pretty much! A lie, by any other name.... is a LIE!  People could spin the rhetoric anyway they want, it's still a lie.

[Chernabogue]

Cox said we would get a new trailer around New Year, and that we would get more than a/one trailer.

[TatteredSeraph]

The way I see it, this can go round and round in circles until the cows come home.  ON one hand, Cox sort of lied.  On the other, he didn't.  People change, and can figuratively be very different people to who they used to be.  It's like in The Hobbit, when Bilbo asks Gandalf whether he will come back (from the quest), Gandalf replies "No, but if you do, you won't be the same.".  It's the same here.  Alucard *used* to be Trevor, just as Dracul was once Gabriel Belmont.  They're very different now to who they used to be when they were alive.  Alucard, when he woke, had an amount of amnesia, and had forgotten a lot of his old abilities. 
  I agree that yeah, Cox was using marketting PR tactics.  That's nothing new at all, and it doesn't make him a big bad who should be hunted down with pitchforks.  However, he wasn't 100% out and out lying.
  Also, Alucard doesn't wear the same gear as he did as Trevor - that gear can be seen in the library, up in the chapel-like room by where his battle cross was kept. 

[Flame]

Why is this such an issue.

let's just enjoy videogames and stop arguing semantics over language and wording Jesus

[crisis]

b/c we're all nerds and that's what nerds do; debate argue & insult each other & the creators over plot details such as these. we can't always talk about gameplay.. Embrace it  : )

In los1 previews cox said he hated qte's yet they're cluttered in the game. He's a liar
I remember IGA saying in CoD previews that Trevor being a playable character was "too predictable" and for the fans to keep guessing. He lied there too


I hope the new trailer or whatever is a Victor-based one. Show us what's happening through Vichiter's perspective. prunyuu~