Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Flame]

by all means tell me: what makes a Castlevania game? what is essential to a cv game?

[EstebanT]

Keep in mind that previews are only meant to share a few personal impressions, and don't constitute a professional critique. So in essence, those "nerd guys" aren't any less justified in their opinions then we are.  It's also hardly surprising to see someone describe LoS2 as "weird"; by any Castlevania standard, Lords of Shadow is very weird indeed.

As the GI appreciation, I'll grant you that a 6/10 review is hardly a good way to start the cycle, but I'd wait until LoS2 actually comes out before starting to "durr-durr" my way through it. No one will be able tell how accurate the score is until the game is released, so it's pointless to start complaining early.


Incidentally, those angry people who insist on calling LoS a God of War clone aren't as unreasonable as you'd think; you can't reduce this CV subseries to a fit of plagiarism, but you also can't deny that Lords borrows heavily from other successful franchises -- God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, and Devil May Cry among others. It's a very thin line to tread, anyhow; few modern hack n'slash games can escape the inevitable GoW comparison.

You are aware lament of innocence, castlevania 64, and legacy of darkness are pre god of war right? Just making sure....

[crisis]

weve had the "what makes castlevania castlevania" debates mad times already, what can be said that hasnt already been said?

that said, y are so many getting upset & discombobulated from reading/watching these reviews that you knew what to expect, you knew exactly how they were gonna approach it just like they did with los1, the god of war comparions & such*. its like you knew what they were gonna say about the game, but still get disappointed from what they say, i dont get it

it is what it is, los saga has divided fans from the start & loox like gonna be no different with los2. im sure ill still enjoy it regardless (although that 1 "messy" stealth section every1 keeps complaining about has me a bit worried)


*concerning the gow comparisons, it is true there have been many games that predate the god of war-esque style, but since god of war's release, god of war has been the gold standard for that type of genre, and not even the latest Devil May Cry games have been looked at the same since DMC3. until a game is released that is on par or perhaps surpasses god of war in terms of everything, those certain types of games will always be considered "inferior" or "another gow clone," it's just the way it is for now. its annoying, yes, but it's also temporary, and we just gotta deal with it. i know this is subjective, as many would argue gow has already been surpassed, but not many games have seen the success god of war has seen [in the action/hack-n-slash/platformer genre, anyway]

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

You are aware lament of innocence, castlevania 64, and legacy of darkness are pre god of war right? Just making sure....

To be fair none of those games had chain whipping mechanics.

All of their whips felt like just that......whips.

[Flame]

as far as cv goes, a whip is a whip. chain or leather. loi played ver similarly to los in the combat dept.

[EstebanT]

To be fair none of those games had chain whipping mechanics.

All of their whips felt like just that......whips.

You have got to be kidding me.

[e105beta]

Honestly, that little preview sounded fair to me. Whenever I talk to my friends or other people about LoS they always bring up that it's not the Castlevania they're familiar with or particularly like.

One thing I have to agree with them is Mercury Steam not trusting the player enough, the on screen prompts always seem kinda "duhhh no shit" to me, and that's not an issue that's exclusive to just MS. It's a problem that's very rampant in a lot of video games today. Maybe it's because the devs really don't trust the player, or they're level design just isn't smart/clever enough for someone to look at and go "oh, I get it." It varies.

For a series that started off as a Barbarian whipping candles hunting B list horror movie monsters, "weird" is a fair assessment of LoS2.

See, I get that it's different, and that it's not what fans have grown accustomed to over the last 11 or so years, but Castlevania has changed a LOT over the 25+ years it has been around. I don't see anything in LoS2 that is so particularly "weird" that it doesn't seem Castlevania. Demons, flying armor, robots, homunculous, giant flying jellyfish, Greek gods and monsters, Egyptian mythology, Hindu mythology, American urban legends, giant robotic centaurs, a maid with a vacuum cleaner, etc; these are all things that have been added to the series since the series inception. I don't see what's so ridiculous about a demon robot soldier, a flying golden paladin, a clockwork titan, or religious themes (which isn't even really new).

I mean, I expect to see the stealth come up as something uncharacteristic, and it has, but outside of that, I just don't see it. At least not in LoS2. LoS had a bit more of a generic fantasy theme in some of the areas, but that seems to have been wholly rectified in LoS2.

Keep in mind that previews are only meant to share a few personal impressions, and don't constitute a professional critique. So in essence, those "nerd guys" aren't any less justified in their opinions then we are.  It's also hardly surprising to see someone describe LoS2 as "weird"; by any Castlevania standard, Lords of Shadow is very weird indeed.

As the GI appreciation, I'll grant you that a 6/10 review is hardly a good way to start the cycle, but I'd wait until LoS2 actually comes out before starting to "durr-durr" my way through it. No one will be able tell how accurate the score is until the game is released, so it's pointless to start complaining early.


Incidentally, those angry people who insist on calling LoS a God of War clone aren't as unreasonable as you'd think; you can't reduce this CV subseries to a fit of plagiarism, but you also can't deny that Lords borrows heavily from other successful franchises -- God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, and Devil May Cry among others. It's a very thin line to tread, anyhow; few modern hack n'slash games can escape the inevitable GoW comparison.

I may just be particular, but I think it's possible to draw comparisons to God of War without reducing it to "clone" status. Clone implies that the game is merely derivative and lacking almost entirely in creativity, which I don't think LoS is.

Case in point, nobody called Symphony of the Night a "Metroid clone", instead it got its own moniker to denote that it was still a Castlevania, only now with Metroid elements.

IMO, all the semantics revolve around reception. SotN and LoS came into the game under similar circumstances, but only the latter had to contend with the increasingly niche fanbase of the former. Classicvania was just losing fans all together, but Metroidvania created a super-fan for every fan it lost.

To be fair none of those games had chain whipping mechanics.

All of their whips felt like just that......whips.

To be fair, Castlevania had chain whips long before God of War was even a thought

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

as far as cv goes, a whip is a whip. chain or leather. loi played ver similarly to los in the combat dept.

Already knew that, its obvious really.

The point here is that he brought up LOI,CV64,and LOD as examples of 3d castlevania games that where out before God of War.

The thing is however that God of War still was the first to do the chain whipping mechanic first in 3D, something LOS is doing now.

Those 3 games where based on the leather whipping rather than chain whipping.

[Kingshango]

So we're really having this "What is a Castlevania " argument again?

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

To be fair, Castlevania had chain whips long before God of War was even a thought

Read and understand my posts more carefully, its obvious we are referring to chain whips on the 3.D plane.

You have got to be kidding me.

Lol great reply, if this is the kind of responses I can expect from you than maybe I should avoid trying to have actual discussions with you in the future.

[EstebanT]

Read and understand my posts more carefully, its obvious we are referring to chain whips on the 3.D plane.

Lol great reply, if this is the kind of responses I can expect from you than maybe I should avoid trying to have actual discussions with you in the future.

Leather or chain is such a stupid and specific detail.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Leather or chain is such a stupid and specific detail.

Lol how so?

we are referring to game mechanics after all, the look and feel of swinging a leather whip on the 3.D plane is obviously different than swinging a chain one.

Just compare LOI and LOS gameplay mechanics to see what I meant.

My point is obviously going over your head, my point is that you can't use those 3 castlevania games as a basis to your argument of 3.D castlevania games being out before God of War and thus the LOS series did not take inspiration from it when really those three have nothing to do with the gameplay mechanic God of War and the LOS series happen to share.

[crisis]

@e105beta AKA Big the Cat

concerning the "weird" enemy types, i agree its true none of them are alien to the series, since those types havent really been seen in the 3D side of the series, i could see why some would say they "dont belong" in castlevania especially in los2. theyre just simply uninformed about the franchise as a whole and how diverse the enemy cast has been. the 3D games monsters are largely inferior to the 2D games in terms of uniqueness and originality, although there are a few exceptions (motorcycle skeletons for instance)

[cerebralbore]

 @theplottwist, so you have in your hand, in your head, in your brain, what is the esence of a castlevania, what must be had a game to be a castlevania. Sure man.

 I was a really deep fan of Turok saga (I don't know if you meet it). I had Turok 1, Turok 2 and Turok 3 too. The 1 was great, and the 2 was the best with any doubt. The 3 was the worst of three, worst graphics, weapons, enemies... But was a turok (a turok is a man killing dinosaurs-dinozoids and another kind of monsters). When Turok was announced for PS3 I get bonner. The game was a reboot of the saga, still was a shooter, but in a new unniversy, without connection whit the others, without weird weapons, only killing dinosaurs (no monsters), but was still a Turok (remember, a man killing dinosaurs).
 The game was a bad shooter, and still a Turok (a bad turok).

 Castlevania have the most basic of a castlevania (try to found it in your heart) and are a great game. Fuck, I would had given a hand for a good reboot turok, a game whit a gameplay that works. Not import that hadn't any connection whit the olds Turok, only a game where you can kill dinosaurs with a nice gameplay. Who still waits a reboot that be the same that the olds tittles of a saga, they simply have a problem: CABEZONERÍA SUPINA.

[e105beta]

@e105beta AKA Big the Cat

concerning the "weird" enemy types, i agree its true none of them are alien to the series, since those types havent really been seen in the 3D side of the series, i could see why some would say they "dont belong" in castlevania especially in los2. theyre just simply uninformed about the franchise as a whole and how diverse the enemy cast has been. the 3D games monsters are largely inferior to the 2D games in terms of uniqueness and originality, although there are a few exceptions (motorcycle skeletons for instance)

Finally someone gets the reference.

And I definitely agree with you there. The 3D games have tended to be pretty conservative in terms of enemy types, which is why I want to see whatever crazy shit MercurySteam has thought up for LoS2. That's part of the fun.

Like this guy: