Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Flame]

Complaining about a complain doesn't head anywhere.

And we know you love it, so you too, shouldn't care when I complain about something. I'll continue to complain as long as my interest on this franchise and this forum continues, so deal with it.

Says the one that complained that I enjoy killing the franchise. That's not complaining either. It's baseless whining and mud slinging over opinions.

Also of course i care if you complain. if i disagree with what you are saying, I'll respond to your complaint. that's the way this works. Someone complains, someone else responds to the complaint. Deal with that

[Maedhros]

Man, you took that seriously? It was a joke... sigh.

And I'm the immature one here...

[Darkson]

logan2122

Sure, on first impression right after beating the game I felt let down too, but while reflecting during the credits it didn't take long for me to realize what this entire game was about and what it was trying to say.

The game's final moments are huge letdowns and extremely anti-climatic compared to previous boss encounters and how Satan was built up. Without God's magic powers (the first game) only a fully powered Dracula was said to have what it takes to even take Satan on. The Vampire Killer combat cross was never mentioned to be a Satan killer as well, that just makes no sense and was totally the devs just winging it cus they couldn't get their proper Satan boss fight done. After the fight with Alucard I was totally expecting a balls out boss fight between a fully powered Dracula and fully powered Satan, something akin to us the players controlling the Dragon in a huge mega boss fight against whatever super form Satan can concoct. The battle would've been hovering just above Castlevania City and you could get a bird's eye view of the city. So you can say the ending was anti-climatic. What you cannot say however, was that the story was bad and/or had no closure. And here's why.

The entire game was a Father-Son tale a thousand years in the making (remember that tagline in the E3 trailer? It was actually true within the context of the game's story). More than anything, his son's presence was seen and felt the most throughout all the game and especially during his internal memories/conflicts. Little Trevor, the white wolf, Alucard, etc. The story/message/theme of the first game was how far one would go for a wife/woman they love. For the second game they amped it up to show how strong a Father's love can be. These fantasy stories parallel the real world, I've seen this happen to countless dudes. At first its all about the girlfriend/wife but then once the son/daughter is born BAM its all about them, and rightfully so. It is the natural order of things in the hearts of men, as Dracula would put it. That's why their can't really be a sequel to this, because no love goes beyond the love of a father/mother to their son/daughter. That's kind of the peak of it, thematically. Alucard, being the father that he was knew all this, and devised his entire elaborate plan around the fact that Dracula's inner Gabriel would prevail over his inner Dracula due to his unbreakable bond/love towards him ("Only my father, Gabriel Belmont, can destroy Dracula").

When Mirror of Fate came out, I kept saying that Alucard/Simon didn't defeat him, he just let them kill him. One because he wants to die but two, and more importantly, there's just no way a Father can kill his own son or any descendant of his, even for Dracula. If you pay attention during the Dracula boss fights you see that Dracula only ever uses his blood whip and barely ever tries to actually fight, where as in his fight with Trevor, when he didn't know it was his son, he kind of went all out with his powers and actually tried. This too was something that just went way over everyone's head at the time, and I couldn't believe it.

So going back to LOS2, the story of the game and the arc of Dracula's character is him going from his despair and loneliness for Marie to him realizing and accepting he already has something better right here, in his son. It makes sense that Dracula doesn't want to kill himself anymore by the end of this game. That was kind of the whole point to the story. It had more then perfect closure. Who knows what Dracula/Alucard may decide to do. They may decide to kill themselves and join Marie or they may decide to stick around and protect humanity together through any future trials humanity may face. There's no more Despair there, Dracula has the best thing any Father could ever ask for, his own son. Everyone who played this game must've never known a father in their life lol. And Dracula will basically always be Gabriel with super powers, keeping his inner Dracula at bay due to his bond/love for Alucard.

I just came across this on gamefaqs and I have to say, it does help the story some what. It still doesn't help how victor was misused, but it does remove some of the sting of the ending. Still wish lucifer was the final boss, but meh.

What do you all think? Mindless justification of a purchase or something legit that makes you think?

[e105beta]

I just came across this on gamefaqs and I have to say, it does help the story some what. It still doesn't help how victor was misused, but it does remove some of the sting of the ending. Still wish lucifer was the final boss, but meh.

What do you all think? Mindless justification of a purchase or something legit that makes you think?

While there are some legitimate points in there, Logan2122 will go to the ends of the earth to justify every little thing in this game.

[Darkson]

True, I have seen him doing so before. Though, it is fair to take into consideration the points which have some value and mold them with the other points available in order to construct a solid viewpoint. I don't mean to sound like I am flip flopping, I just try to remain open minded. Right now, personally, the entire series is each rated 8.5 for me. Just like ecclesia and symphony.

[Flame]

What do you all think? Mindless justification of a purchase or something legit that makes you think?

Little bit of both.
I can see what he means, and I can see it in the game- ("Come closer, Son... I wish to embrace you.") but the game's ending, and the events leading to it from the moment you fight Zobek was so poorly written, that it does not come across that way. It should have been more obvious, considering this was supposed to be a grand finale. the ending was very lackluster for that.

If they wanted to play it like that, they should have made it far more clear. they also drew far too much attention to the Combat cross as this super powerful weapon that can kill him, give him release- and somehow it can kill Satan? And somehow Dracul can kill Zobek with just his sword, when Satan burned him to a crisp the last game to no effect? his bio itself states that after his fate at Satan's hands, he was trapped in his realm for a while, until he decided to enter the world under the guise of a businessman. So obviously he is not dead, and neither is Satan, considering Gabriel killed him too in LoS, burning him to a crisp with holy light. When Satan dies he just goes back to hell. there's no reason VK should kill him. He also just LEAVES the VK there in his body. The weapon that can kill him- he leaves for someone to find, after deciding to live on with his son?

I can accept that as an ending, but it's presentation and the writing leading up to it were so bad that it doesnt matter. it barely offers any insight into what was up until then, a battle over redemption and release. Doesnt quite give them quite a life plan either. Will they just... live in the cathedral..? quite a shitty life... Will Humanity recover after the events of the game? Did Victor even give the antidote to anyone or did he doom Humanity by dying while carrying it out to his trap like a retard? If Humanity recovers, will Dracul and Alucard try to blend in like Zobek did? (Good luck making Alucard Blend in with grey skin and black eyes) Will they then just feed off of random people? Alucard obviously doesnt have the mind to drink Human blood, which is why he looks how he does. because he never drinks blood unless it's from some Monster he's fighting. Dracul meanwhile has no such reservations. Would Alucard Allow him to just murder Humans for blood? I doubt he would stop drinking blood, despite being all good with his son, he's still the same Dracula from the start of the game, he's still "The Dragon", after all. Or what, would they become vigilantes? draining criminals instead of innocent people?

I can go on. You see where the problem with the ending, no matter what it may or may not be trying to convey is right? It offers no closure. It offers absolutely no resolution to the conflicts other than Satan.

Even Darksiders 2 established that humanity would be resurrected because of Death's actions in the game, and that once War breaks the last seal in Darksiders, despite 2 having an underwhelming ending, at least resolved the main plot of the two games- proving War's innocence, and fixing what was wronged- the destruction of Humanity.


LoS2? Sure, Dracul kills the main Antagonists responsible for his state of being, (without justifiable reason to even suspect them dead mind you) but the issue of Humanity and the antidote to the demon plague is not resolved, and what Dracul wants after all is said and done, is not clearly resolved, and seems to have changed somewhere along the line without telling the audience.

[Ahasverus]

I stand by my theory that Zobek didn't die in LoS as his body wasn't found. He was just badly injured and flee the scene. he's dead dead now.

[Flame]

I stand by my theory that Zobek didn't die in LoS as his body wasn't found. He was just badly injured and flee the scene. he's dead dead now.

It's possible, though the recap implies that all 3 Lords were defeated, even if Gabe didnt kill Zobek himself.

Consider: Satan basically used him as a portal. he literally came out of Zobek's flaming body

[Dremn]

Kinda sorta relevant but Konami has a new President now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/04/konami-digital-entertainment-names-its-new-president

I wonder if anything will change for the company now.

[Kingshango]

Kinda sorta relevant but Konami has a new President now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/04/konami-digital-entertainment-names-its-new-president

I wonder if anything will change for the company now.

After EA, Square Enix and Microsoft got new presidents, im expecting things to not get any better at Konami.

[Trevorcard]

To be honest you guys and this may be heresy but I been thinking that Zobek battle may be tad overrated. Yeah the boss design is amazing and its awesome there is a death battle in game but the battle was bit disappointing. When I think of death boss battle I think of being in constant motion. In this battle I just roll bit pound on death while he blocks and then he does "LET THE BANQUET COMMENCE SEQUENCE" this battle should been way more epic and Zobek should have had more attack patterns and more sequence. I felt battle was easy and over too quickly. I think Alucard, Victor and Second Acolyte while not as badass as Zobek battle were better boss battles overall.

[Chernabogue]

Victor was one of the best boss battles in the game. You really got the classic and LoS Belmont vibes at the same time.

[KaZudra]

LoS2 will soon be acclaimed as a great game with a few bad parts and weak ending.... much like LoS1 (minus the ending part, which was one of LoS1's strong points)

LoS2 Channels SoTN and AoS much like how LoS1 channeled SCv4 and LoI
Victor is too much alike to Julius, too bad MS didn't apply Victor as an actual character
Alucard plays a similar Role in LOS2 and in both SoTN and AoS
there are a ton of homages to both games in Story and Gameplay, and even music.
in other aspects, the war with the humans and demons bear strong resemblance to a certain war in AoS.

does anyone else feel like that?

[Kamirine]

To be honest you guys and this may be heresy but I been thinking that Zobek battle may be tad overrated. Yeah the boss design is amazing and its awesome there is a death battle in game but the battle was bit disappointing. When I think of death boss battle I think of being in constant motion. In this battle I just roll bit pound on death while he blocks and then he does "LET THE BANQUET COMMENCE SEQUENCE" this battle should been way more epic and Zobek should have had more attack patterns and more sequence. I felt battle was easy and over too quickly. I think Alucard, Victor and Second Acolyte while not as badass as Zobek battle were better boss battles overall.

I can understand the sentiment to be honest.  As the actual fight itself goes, it reminds me of boss battles out of the Batman Arkham games.  I guess my like of it comes from the same reason I like the CVIV final boss with Dracula.

There may not be much to the fight itself, but it's the build up that makes it so great.  For Zobek, it was simply his character: as I said before, he was more of a final boss for me just because of his relationship with Gabe. All the crap he puts Gabe through and when you finally get to kill him, it's a great feeling.  Gabe stabs him through, I spike my controller and roar at the screen.  He was the boss I actually gave a crap about defeating.  Dunno if that's what MS was going for, but that's what I took from it.

Same with IV: creepy music starts, the candles light up as you walk past, that infamous staircase.  Then finally, as you keep beating Drac's butt, Simon's theme starts playing.  I loved it.

[Flame]

To be honest you guys and this may be heresy but I been thinking that Zobek battle may be tad overrated. Yeah the boss design is amazing and its awesome there is a death battle in game but the battle was bit disappointing. When I think of death boss battle I think of being in constant motion. In this battle I just roll bit pound on death while he blocks and then he does "LET THE BANQUET COMMENCE SEQUENCE" this battle should been way more epic and Zobek should have had more attack patterns and more sequence. I felt battle was easy and over too quickly. I think Alucard, Victor and Second Acolyte while not as badass as Zobek battle were better boss battles overall.

well it was disappointingly easy. but it was enjoyable. if it was fun, had great presentation and music, and an awesome design for death, and glorious Patrick Stewart quotes- if it was overall fun despite its low difficulty, then is it really overrated?

Darksiders 2's battle against War was the first boss, iirc, and yet was still the highlight of the whole game due to presentation and all that.