Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[darkmanx_429]

I agree. The best part of the game, to me, is the prologue. It almost feels like that part of the game was developed first and then Alvarez stepped in to create a mess. I compare it to the opening scene of Revenge of the Sith. Prologue has:

- The beautiful, majestic throne room (perhaps the best looking throne room)
- 16th century setting
- Dracula showing off his powers of malevolence
- Feasting on the knights' blood
- "What is a man?" (Not the most appropriate time to say it, but it's delivered well, IMO)
- Magnificent castle backdrop. Looks just like it should.
- Paladin of God - Sniper of Goth anyone?
- Siege Titan was a better Titan experience than anything in the first game.
- Magical/religious elements (Paladin's prayer)
- Dracula's curse on God (I am His chosen one)
- Alucard shows up with a plan.

I'm sure that with video games, especially big ones, there's always going to be someone on the inside that just has to do it their way because it's "their way." They can't picture the game being successful unless what they want is in it, is in it. When you have DRACULA as the MAIN CHARACTER in the MODERN WORLD going up against SATAN, which is a fairly unique concept, people are going to jump all over that, because that sounds pretty frickin cool, right? So of course, Alvarez just had to be the director and had to insert his vision because...hey, what else could possibly work, right?

GOOD:
Robert Carlyle Dracula
I'll even go further and include when old Drac first wakes up and slaughters the family.
Also, the dialogue between Dracula and Satan accolades is on point.
The main storyline and modern setting with Dracula vs. Satan awesome!
Best Death fight I've seen in any CV game!
Awesome Premium edition with the coffin and artbook!
Got Castlevania a triple A budget and some mainstream press I haven't seen since SOTN.

BADS:
The final battle vs. Satan (I mean, Leviathan)-horrible. The Satan battle from the first game was far superior.
Dracula vs. Alucard (possessed) could have been better.
The Belmont Battle  - terrible especially, huge Victor. I rather face Curse of Darkness Trevor from Curse of Darkness.
The Ending - I almost smashed the TV when I saw that! No conclusion!
Stealth missions. Terrible. Maybe if you really got a open world city full of people like at the beginning of the prologue. Where did everyone go?
Wolf time-traveling...no just no.
No extra modes except free-roaming...I probably won't play it again.

[Anglachel]

I think the game started out very strong in the beginning. We have the delicious intro, the epic recap of the previous two games, and Dracula waking up again. I do agree that Gabriel waking up is a good part of the game. I was playing it with my girlfriend and the first thing she asked when Dracula realized he was awake was, "Do you think he hates that he's alive?" She even started tearing up when Dracula was outside, alone and sad. She felt so bad for him...until he slaughtered the family. Then she hated him. 

There really needed to be more moments like that in the game, moments when Dracula is just terrifying. Family scene was really the only one that made me feel "uneasy." Everything else felt more like an angry Gabriel than a true force of evil nature. And another thing to think about is how would moments like that play in Gabriel's redemption? What would he think if he slaughtered a group of demons, but he unwittingly saved a few humans doing so? How would that make him feel?

And where did everyone go? Underground, I guess. It's such a strange thing to remove humanity almost at the very beginning. I remember Flame mentioning how he thought we'd be chasing monsters over rooftops while humanity below Dracul was entirely unaware. THAT is stealth. (Also, I think Blood Relations would be a perfect moonlit, nighttime Castlevania chase theme.)

As for the ending battle, I was expecting it to be the full blown power of Satan striking Dracula, Alucard, and Victor Belmont. I thought I'd see Satanic magical runes bringing forth demons, dimensions being ripped apart (Dance of Illusions, anyone?), Dracula and Satan cultivating their fight with their dragon forms, and at long last Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Dracula is slain by Victor Belmont with the VK, and Dracula's redemption, forgiveness, and love is complete at last.

[Dracul_Belmont]

I think the game started out very strong in the beginning. We have the delicious intro, the epic recap of the previous two games, and Dracula waking up again. I do agree that Gabriel waking up is a good part of the game. I was playing it with my girlfriend and the first thing she asked when Dracula realized he was awake was, "Do you think he hates that he's alive?" She even started tearing up when Dracula was outside, alone and sad. She felt so bad for him...until he slaughtered the family. Then she hated him. 

There really needed to be more moments like that in the game, moments when Dracula is just terrifying. Family scene was really the only one that made me feel "uneasy." Everything else felt more like an angry Gabriel than a true force of evil nature. And another thing to think about is how would moments like that play in Gabriel's redemption? What would he think if he slaughtered a group of demons, but he unwittingly saved a few humans doing so? How would that make him feel?

And where did everyone go? Underground, I guess. It's such a strange thing to remove humanity almost at the very beginning. I remember Flame mentioning how he thought we'd be chasing monsters over rooftops while humanity below Dracul was entirely unaware. THAT is stealth. (Also, I think Blood Relations would be a perfect moonlit, nighttime Castlevania chase theme.)

As for the ending battle, I was expecting it to be the full blown power of Satan striking Dracula, Alucard, and Victor Belmont. I thought I'd see Satanic magical runes bringing forth demons, dimensions being ripped apart (Dance of Illusions, anyone?), Dracula and Satan cultivating their fight with their dragon forms, and at long last Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Dracula is slain by Victor Belmont with the VK, and Dracula's redemption, forgiveness, and love is complete at last.

Someone please do a fanfic of this 

[Anglachel]

We can all do a fanfic if we try hard enough. 

[Dracul_Belmont]

We can all do a fanfic if we try hard enough. 

I started a fanfic once... ONCE

lol, but yeah I did, 26 pages long, but that was before LOS, and I liked that story better and I wanted to start from scratch, but I haven't started. I wanna do a fanfic about Simon's Quest, him fighting inner Dracula after acquiring some relics, which would be holy water, cyclone boots, seraph shoulders and the dark gauntlet. That would wake inner Dracula and find out about his father becoming a vampire and initiating the real blood feud between Dracula and the Belmont bloodline. The Belmonts would take upon themselves to stop Dracula until they are called to be the leaders of the BoL, and continue to fight the darkness.

[DoctaMario]

I agree. The best part of the game, to me, is the prologue. It almost feels like that part of the game was developed first and then Alvarez stepped in to create a mess. I compare it to the opening scene of Revenge of the Sith. Prologue has:

- The beautiful, majestic throne room (perhaps the best looking throne room)
- 16th century setting
- Dracula showing off his powers of malevolence
- Feasting on the knights' blood
- "What is a man?" (Not the most appropriate time to say it, but it's delivered well, IMO)
- Magnificent castle backdrop. Looks just like it should.
- Paladin of God - Sniper of Goth anyone?
- Siege Titan was a better Titan experience than anything in the first game.
- Magical/religious elements (Paladin's prayer)
- Dracula's curse on God (I am His chosen one)
- Alucard shows up with a plan.

I'm sure that with video games, especially big ones, there's always going to be someone on the inside that just has to do it their way because it's "their way." They can't picture the game being successful unless what they want is in it, is in it. When you have DRACULA as the MAIN CHARACTER in the MODERN WORLD going up against SATAN, which is a fairly unique concept, people are going to jump all over that, because that sounds pretty frickin cool, right? So of course, Alvarez just had to be the director and had to insert his vision because...hey, what else could possibly work, right?

I agree 100% with this. I played the demo a bunch of times and was really looking forward to the game based on what i played. So far, it's been me sneaking around the set of a Metal Gear game.

i wouldnt go so far to say it's AWFUL, there are certainly worse games out there than los2. but it does have its redeeming qualities, such as the castle which was simply breathtaking the first time i experienced it, the little nuances such as Dracula slitting his wrist on those sharp stone objects to offer blood, him eating beating hearts for energy, the way his gauntlet glows, etc. if you ignore the wack ending & other annoyances and just look at it for these aspects i listed for a second, they prevent the game from being downright awful because those things they did right were so awesome and perfect for a 3D Castlevania. also, the Alucard DLC. but to each his own of course

I'm at Carmilla now. How far am I into the game and if not that far, how much farther do I have to go until it picks up?

[The Silverlord]

Just started downloading LoS2 from Xbox.com (currently 50% sale, 4.06GB) . . . also downloading Bloodrayne Betrayal too (also 50% off).

Not being playing many games lately outside of Geometry Wars 2!  These'll keep me going over summer, haha!

[darkmanx_429]

Just started downloading LoS2 from Xbox.com (currently 50% sale, 4.06GB) . . . also downloading Bloodrayne Betrayal too (also 50% off).

Not being playing many games lately outside of Geometry Wars 2!  These'll keep me going over summer, haha!

I wish the crew that did Bloodrayne Betrayal would also do a next gen 2D Castlevania game!

[Anglachel]

I had some thoughts about a fan version of the Satan fight.

- Victor Belmont plays a bigger role in the story overall (and acts like a proper Belmont, crazy about killing Dracula. Would like a more Julius-looking design, such as a leather jacket and brown hair) and is active in the fight against Satan, along with Alucard and Dracula.
- The setting. The Leviathan...no. Leviathan itself should be redesigned and play a role in the story (tying in with Revelation) rather than being the final boss setting. I did, however, like the stars in the sky in the fight. I want to see something grand, mysterious, something very dream-like. Similar to Final Fantasy 2's Castle Pandemonium. Look at the throne room here.
It looks like something very netherworld like, like it's physical and yet not quite real. I wanted to see something grand and terrible too, just like Castle Pandemonium.
- And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. - Revelation 12 We all need this. Satan's ultimate dragon form, with which he deceives the whole world. Alucard and Victor are nothing against this monster. Only the Dracul can defeat this abomination.
- Magic, occultism, Satanism, witchcraft, dark arts, black magic. I'm talking Satanic runes, enchanted spells only the Devil can proclaim, supernatural wonders not seen before, dimensions bending in and out of reality. These should not only be in the final battle, but in the story as well. There was a strong lack of the supernatural element in LoS2 compared to the first game.
-Satan's attempts to bring the Belmonts over to his side. Say, there's three Belmonts here. I am missing three acolytes. How would you like to take their place at the throne of the Dragon, the Prince of Darkness?

[Flame]

It's such a strange thing to remove humanity almost at the very beginning. I remember Flame mentioning how he thought we'd be chasing monsters over rooftops while humanity below Dracul was entirely unaware. THAT is stealth.

thats exactly what I was expecting. I mean, we saw the mechas and shit, so i was expecting this to be the grand battle between Dracula and Satan, with Humanity caught up in the middle.

I mean, some level of apocalypse is ok, I mean, thats what it was, but to just "lolded" all of the humans was just a cheap copout. And the apocalyptic modern scenery was bland and boring. all concrete parking lots and walls and shit.

You can clearly see the drops in quality. the area where Dracula exits the church is great, nicely made, as is the exterior of the corporation. but once everything goes to shit, it all becomes the same shitty hues of yellow/red and musty brown. As opposed to the vibrant, yknow, "FUTURE!" of bright neon lights and billboards. that kind of shit looked neat. I was expecting everything to look like that. instead it was the same old architecture only with pipes and wires now.

"lolmutants" was a shitty enemy.

notice how each section of the castle had unique enemies? Exterior areas had Order Knights, who also appear in some of the more "open" areas of the interior, such as the ballroom. the underground city had those wardens and their minions, along with skeletons, and a brief encounter with Harpies of the Depths, and culminates in a fight with Gorgon sisters.

Library had skeletons and Carmilla, who, aside from being a vampire queen, was also known to have turned her loyal human servants into skeletons to serve her in undeath. despite not fighting many skeletons in loS1's castle, they were still a staple for her, considering she's not a vampire in her LoS2 appearance. yknow?


Bernhard Wing had vampires, some knights in the ballroom, harpies in the large well/watery place, since it's really vertical, and culminates in a golem boss fight in the void room

maybe it's just because many of the enemies in the castle are at least somewhat relatable to classic enemies, but they seemed much more vivid and appropriate for their areas, and they were in specific areas- for example the balcony has harpies, because its outdoors- but the modern city just has the same exact variations of mutants EVERYWHERE and all the boss fights are some kind of demon or something. i dont even remember the modern city boss fights except for Victor and Death. Which are, of course, iconic characters. Death and a Belmont. Both who fight as youd expect them to, and in appropriately designed areas.

LoS2 just makes me so damn sad. Its such wasted potential. I mean, set pieces like the overlook tower where you fight the Second Acolyte, that whole part, is glorious. Dracula dragging him to his own world, where he has the strength of his castle.

Oh, also, im disappointed Gabriel never impales anyone. Carmilla doesn't count. (though it was brutal as fuck and I loved it) I mean like, Vlad style spitroast.

[crisis]

i hated fighting those mechas.. so damn annoying lol
that situation should be beneath Dracula >.<

come to think of it, i dont think i ever used the Dragon form not even once

[darkmanx_429]

i hated fighting those mechas.. so damn annoying lol
that situation should be beneath Dracula >.<

come to think of it, i dont think i ever used the Dragon form not even once

You know what, I never used the Dragon Form either?! I was saving it for the final battle I thought, and was really disappointed.

[Anglachel]

I found the best boss fights to be the Daughter of Satan and the Riders of the Storm. Both of the them had a great atmosphere (especially DoS's, with the moon, destroyed rooftop, and the magical aura above) about them and the enemies themselves were fantastically designed. I think Lords of Shadow 2 really needed more of the "weird" enemies, like the very grotesque, ugly, and creepy monsters like in other games.

[Flame]

I mentioned the mutants before, and Ill expand on that; different parts of the city should have had different kinds of mutants. i find it very hard to believe that all of humanity mutated into identical types. if there were at least a few more variations, maybe with better aesthetics, maybe we could have worked with that. because the mutants we got just looked like shit. Some of the demons were alright, Satan Soldiers were alright, though a bit too basic, the dark apostles were fucking FANTASTIC though.

I also hated how enemies had that cheap "dont you run away from me" attack if you tried to leave the area by jumping or climbing

[Kingshango]

Flame just reminded me of something regarding the modern day enemies. From the first return to modern day, the blood of the castle follows you out and spawns vampires but soon after they don't appear anymore.

First off, why does this stop happening? And second, why doesn't the blood of the castle just take over the city if it can follow Dracula out?