Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Flame]

I want to give [[The fans that bought the first game,]] something that they're going to be attracted to. At the same time, I want to bring over some of the fans that might not have liked it. I want to bring them in too.

Cox, for all intents and purposes said he only cares what the new fans of LoS want more of. So... what the older fans think and want is irrelevant?

No he didnt, he said he wants to give the fans who liked it, more of what they want, and wants to try and bring around the fans who didnt like the first game.

he never specified "New or old" fans.

And for that matter, you are lumping every single older castlevania fan into the "did not like" folder.

I would consider myself an "older" castlevania fan in regards to the debate by virtue of being around since the original timeline, whereas the "new" ones are the ones that entered the franchise through LoS.

And I liked LoS, and would like to see more.

Don't assume that every single older fan hates LoS. Because he did not state that anywhere in the article.

[e105beta]

He said there were 4 playable characters and ONE was a fan favorite. To me that sounds like the other three may not be favorites or even well known. What people say is just as important as what they don't say. The problem with interpreting what people don't say in relation to what was said is that it leaves comfortable room for assumptions. I admit that. But if you are going to bother to keep it under wraps until all the other characters have been revealed, you have to admit that a character that was already playable and is the supposed "main character" of the overall narrative is a little anti-climactic. It's almost like making a Megaman game and then waiting to reveal he's playable until after you announce Protoman, Roll, and Bass.

Making Gabriel playable in the prologue in the one game he isn't the focal point of doesn't make perfect sense necessarily. "Perfect sense" is subjective and to another person it might make perfect sense for Trevor to be the playable character in the prologue or any other character for that matter.

Well if it's all subjective and open to interpretation then there's no point in talking about it, much less griping about it.

What I'm interested in is that it's apparently all in the castle. Seeing as one of MercurySteam's strength is its ability to create outdoor environments, are we going to get areas like the Underground Garden? Or are they going to focus on the making the castle halls different? Regrettably my mind quickly shoots too Lament and its sameishness, but if they manage to do something like Symphony of the Night where the castle encompasses areas like the Abandoned Mine and the Colosseum I'll be satisfied.

[Thunderbrand]

I wouldn't think it'll be like LoI/CoD's castles at all. Given that MoF is entirely in the castle, I'm sure there will be some outdoor areas: Courtyard, gardens, maybe a cemetery, etc. The castle is friggin' massive as we know from LoS, but I for one just don't like the layout of it. The building itself isn't traditional CV at all. Connecting the towers with those huge chains just dosen't sit right with me. But I'm sure it'll have a good "feel" to it overall.

[e105beta]

I wouldn't think it'll be like LoI/CoD's castles at all. Given that MoF is entirely in the castle, I'm sure there will be some outdoor areas: Courtyard, gardens, maybe a cemetery, etc. The castle is friggin' massive as we know from LoS, but I for one just don't like the layout of it. The building itself isn't traditional CV at all. Connecting the towers with those huge chains just dosen't sit right with me. But I'm sure it'll have a good "feel" to it overall.

I like how tall Dracula's keep is. If they manage to reflect that in the environment design of the final boss room, I'll be so stoked

[Chernabogue]

I wouldn't think it'll be like LoI/CoD's castles at all. Given that MoF is entirely in the castle, I'm sure there will be some outdoor areas: Courtyard, gardens, maybe a cemetery, etc. The castle is friggin' massive as we know from LoS, but I for one just don't like the layout of it. The building itself isn't traditional CV at all. Connecting the towers with those huge chains just dosen't sit right with me. But I'm sure it'll have a good "feel" to it overall.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Dracula's castle in MoF/LoS2 has nothing in common with Carmilla's. Look at the LoS2 trailer or to the artwork, it's different.

[Munchy]

I wouldn't think it'll be like LoI/CoD's castles at all. Given that MoF is entirely in the castle, I'm sure there will be some outdoor areas: Courtyard, gardens, maybe a cemetery, etc. The castle is friggin' massive as we know from LoS, but I for one just don't like the layout of it. The building itself isn't traditional CV at all. Connecting the towers with those huge chains just dosen't sit right with me. But I'm sure it'll have a good "feel" to it overall.

Most exciting to me is the prospect of a non-linear game without the copy-pasted environments all over the goddamn place. And cool shit happening in the background. (Don't get me wrong, I love all of IGA's games.)

Hopefully they make things much spookier this time around too.

[uzo]

David Cox: Having been vindicated with the most successful Castlevania ever released, we feel that were going in the right direction ...

You're talking about all the stuff you are building up and on, but what are you taking away or leaving behind from the first game that looked great on paper, but fans ended up complaining about?

David Cox: Well, you say that, but it's the most successful Castlevania ever released, so there are a few people moaning about it, but…

David Cox: What's important to me now is that we address the fans of Lords of Shadow. The fans that bought the first game, you know, what do they want? They want more of the same

And there it is. Exactly what I've been suggesting the entire time. They see absolutely nothing wrong with their game design and execution for LoS because it made a boat load of money. They are convinced the only thing they could possibly think of the fans don't like is the whole exploration thing. Interestingly enough, that's the feature they can add without changing any of the other aspects of LoS.

They've tapped into a NEW profitable audience, and now they DO NOT care what the old fans think.

Now the question is, can you blame them for it? Even if it means they sold out Castlevania to the lowest common denominator crowd?

[Maedhros]

No he didnt, he said he wants to give the fans who liked it, more of what they want, and wants to try and bring around the fans who didnt like the first game.

he never specified "New or old" fans.

And for that matter, you are lumping every single older castlevania fan into the "did not like" folder.

I would consider myself an "older" castlevania fan in regards to the debate by virtue of being around since the original timeline, whereas the "new" ones are the ones that entered the franchise through LoS.

And I liked LoS, and would like to see more.

Don't assume that every single older fan hates LoS. Because he did not state that anywhere in the article.

He's not making a good job of getting older fans, considering what I'm seeing in other forums. Basically, people who liked LoS are the ones looking forward this.

I'll admit, he got my attention at the start, though. When they said 2D gameplay I was almost sold.

[Sumac]

They've tapped into a NEW profitable audience, and now they DO NOT care what the old fans think. Now the question is, can you blame them for it? Even if it means they sold out Castlevania to the lowest common denominator crowd?

No.
And I find it funny that you called "non-Castlevania fans" as "lowest common denominator". And Castlevania fans of course are "elite"? LOL. That self-esteem is hilarious and unreasonable. To say the least. It's like saying "all non-Metroid fans" are inferrior to the ones who like this series. A WTF moment really.

And I like how people didn't like my post, where I explained in detail my position about new games vs old games, but nobody dare to say something constructive about it. Looks like "minusing" is the only way those people can speak. As expected.

[Akuma]

Every companies main goal is to make money.  They want your money for their product.  It has little to do with fans of the series.

That is how it's always been.  It doesn't matter necessarily what the "fans" think or say.  And saying something like the "Old fans" is really subjective IMO.

And for further clarification let Wario explain:  Wario Land 4 commercial

They like your money.  But not you.

 

[Dominus Agony]

Ironically it's us, the fans, that have the power. Would a casual gamer (you know, the "wii-sports" type) bother with a game like Lords of Shadow? Probably not. And the casual gamers outnumber us 10 to 1.

The fans have kept this series alive for so long, so to say we have little to do with how the series goes isn't really accurate.

[thernz]

because everyone else is just a casual gamer

[e105beta]

Ironically it's us, the fans, that have the power. Would a casual gamer (you know, the "wii-sports" type) bother with a game like Lords of Shadow? Probably not. And the casual gamers outnumber us 10 to 1.

The fans have kept this series alive for so long, so to say we have little to do with how the series goes isn't really accurate.

You're forgetting a demographic. It's not just Castlevania fans and Wii gamers. There's also a very large group of people who fall into neither category, called video gamers. They may or may not have played Castlevania before and generally don't fall into a niche fan base, and they're the ones that have put Castlevania back into the limelight.

But I don't like this assumption that "older fans" are smart enough to not like LoS while the "newer fans" are referred to like these slobbering bros that only play the game because it's more [insert commentary about death of hardcore gaming and mass appeal pandering here]. from my experience at least, I have yet to meet a Castlevania fan IRL that has hated LoS, and all of the are excited for LoS2. Sure, it's anecdotal, but I'd like to think my education and line of work had exposed me to a large swathe of video gamer types.

[Dark Nemesis]

No.
And I find it funny that you called "non-Castlevania fans" as "lowest common denominator". And Castlevania fans of course are "elite"? LOL. That self-esteem is hilarious and unreasonable. To say the least. It's like saying "all non-Metroid fans" are inferrior to the ones who like this series. A WTF moment really.

  Not really, because Castlevania fans, most of them, are on the series from the very beginning to the very end, so they know far better from someone who came to the series later, what they were known and what they have become. When you see that they have bastardized the game that for so many years you have loved, only for making more money, it's your right to complain and when someone who isn't fan of the series and has just played the last games, he can't criticize the fans for complaining, when he doesn't know what the old games they look like.

  Konami in the past has made an attempt to change the series with Simon's Quest, but it wasn't accepted like it was expected, so it return to the old formula, for game play mechanics and improving the exploration element of the games.

  Later, we have Koji who has taken the series to the next step, with Symphony of The Night. He took the exploration style and the use of a map from the Super Metroid and implement it on Symphony of The Night, but that was the only think in common it had with Super Metroid, the exploration style. He also used RPG elements on the game, he used the characters from the older series and he made what we know as SotN. The problem with this one started, when he has started making copies of the game play core from SotN for the latest games with a few add-ons to give some spicies to the game play and he's also accused for making copy paste of bagroung graphics and enemies sprites. He only started to recognise his errors with his latest game, Order of Ecclesia, but it was too late for him.

  Now, we have Cox and Mercury Steam, leading the series. They have reboot the series with a new timeline, by redesigning the characters, something that isn't bad, something that if it's made right, it's good. They have copied elements from other games, like Koji made with SotN, but personally i believe that they have overdoit with that, but that's my opinion here. Also that's not a big problem, it is accepted. The problem is you see, that for whatever IGA was accused, it seems to happen with Cox. IGA was accused for game play copy paste, the same thing seems to do Cox with Mirror of Fate and LoS 2. He has copied the game play from the first game, without making any improvements or at least some changes, when he knows that most of the older fans are displeased with that decision. He's also using the same style for music, something that also displease most of the fans. conclusion? The two new games are clones of the first, so more or less, Cox is guilty of the same crime that IGA has been accused. Before you rush and say that they are sequels or that they are connected it's game with the other, don't forget that IGA's games they were also connected each one with other, as they were telling the story of Dracula in the passing of the years and no, i am not saying that IGA has made a better work with the serries, but at least i can't see Cox different when he's doing the same mistakes that IGA has made and he is talking with with arrogance for the old fans(David Cox: Well, you say that, but it's the most successful Castlevania ever released, so there are a few people moaning about it, but…) At least IGA was having some respect for the fans of the series, old or new ones.

[Dominus Agony]

You're forgetting a demographic. It's not just Castlevania fans and Wii gamers. There's also a very large group of people who fall into neither category, called video gamers. They may or may not have played Castlevania before and generally don't fall into a niche fan base, and they're the ones that have put Castlevania back into the limelight.

So video gamers may or may not have played a CV game before, so I guess in turn they also may or may not have put CV back in the limelight. Gotcha. Everyone's responsible for putting CV back in the limelight.

You pretty much described casual gamers, since they don't really fall under a niche fan base. They're the largest group of all.