Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: CastleDan on August 07, 2008, 02:13:31 AM
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Hey I'm new here,
I just wanted all of your opinions on something.
I love all the new ds castlevanias but for some reason none of them seem to have surpassed sotn for me.
I'm trying to figure out why. I enjoy the graphics much more on sotn, is it a better graphics engine? Also the newer games the art style within the games looks very cartoony as opposed to the more gothic look of sotn.
I'm just confused as to why they can't top sotn. Isn't the ds about equal to N64 which is better graphically than a Ps1?
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Many of us also feel the same way you do. Despite the desperate effort of the gameboy & DS titles, SotN still remains the king. I think it's because in 1997, there were a lot more talented programmers & artists working on Symphony, and it was a new concept for the series as a whole.
Nowadays, the current team struggles to recapture that magic, with lackluster to okay results. Personally, I don't think a handheld game will ever be as good as SotN.
However I still have hope that one day, given the right circumstances, IGA or his successor will deliver something incredible. It'll happen...
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In Reply To #2
like dont get me wrong the new game looks sweet.
However when you compare Alucards animations to any of the new characters, the pixelated sprite of his... Cloke changing, Animal morphin, spells with different inputs...
Idk The castle didnt have to many cartoony elements, and sometimes downright creepy, the underground portion in particular...
What happened to all that? Don't they have a much larger team working on the new games?...They should put them to good use.
Sighs quits complaining.. lol
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I've never actually played SotN and I love both DS games that everyone here hates. If you would just stop comparing the penis sizes of different games to each other and enjoy them for their merits, you'd probably be a happier person.
(I use "you" here in terms of speaking to a group)
But seriously, of all game fanbases I've been too, Castlevania fans seem to bitch the most. I don't see why- plenty of good games have been thrown our way after SotN, just not QUITE as good. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy them.
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I agree with Crisis ( HIIIII, Crisis <(^.^)^ ): Konami had more talent back then. The sprites were far more careful and the animation fluid. The colors rich and detailed layer effects everywhere.
It seems the DS is not quite capable of the same effects, and not nearly as strong of color as a tv. The resolution of a DS screen is lower too. Then of course you have to consider how SotN can have a more complex soundtrack due to the cd medium.
Alucard's cooler than Soma and all the other new handeld characters combined (sans Natahn Graves and the OoE ones). He could morph into different animals and those played directly into the platforming and secret-unlocking in the game. He had several useful spells, and he could make himself discreetly taller.
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In Reply To #5
Aw c'mon. Don't call the wolf form or the spells useful. They are gimmicks. Not more. All you need to fight is a sword, the spells are only for teh lulz. The later CVs are way better when it comes to ability-systems.
Don't get me wrong here. Sotn is superior when it comes to atmosphere and level design. But there ARE things which are better in the DS titles.
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Personally, I don't think a handheld game will ever be as good as SotN.
the psp has the potential for similar/superior graphical/sound quality. if nintendo never makes as powerful a handheld, and konami keeps favoring them, then no, no new castlevania on a handheld will ever touch symphony in that particular department.
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In Reply To #6
once you get the wolf charge and super speed relics the wolf is the best way to travel fast since it speeds up to insane speeds and damages everything on its way. it also doesn't stop unlike bat charge. too bad it's so immobile though.
as for spells, lol. the spells are anything but useless.
the spirit summon helps a lot while you try to play underleveled/luck mode and your attacks deal shit damage.
hellfire's a decent way to bypass some difficult enemies early in the game and give you lots of invincibility.
soul steal is a great way to heal yourself. dark metamorphosis is also not a bad way to do so if you're around enemies that bleed. especially combined with muramasa.
until you farm for gold and get lots of potions, but that's a game breaker for all iga-metrovanias. :(
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SotN was revolutionary. That is why I think it was so good. I mean it was a new direction and I think Konami wanted to out do itself with it. Now that the games are going in that direction, I think that Konami doesn't want to work as hard for all the games like that. Besides, the current Cv team doesn't seem to be as skilled. The fact that the ds and its cartriges (or what ever those the medium the games come on are called) don't have the same quality as the consoles and console game discs. The only way in my mind for a 2-D sidescrolling game to achieve the same level as SotN, if not surpass it is for such a game to be on a console or PSP. The PSP is more likely though considering that the consoles only seem to get the 3-D games now.
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In Reply To #9
Like I said, I do love the new games, I just notice a big difference.
I guess maybe its lazyness, my best example I can give is their were more UNIQUE and cool looking rooms.. Now it feels like a ton of hallways and little boxes repeated every so often within each area.
I am looking forward to the new game cause it does look a tad bit better creatively than the last few games.
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CD quality music and the fact that SoTN had it while the DS games didn't definitely makes the DS games look bad.
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This is actually one of my favorite subjects, and a host of factors are involved, far too many to elaborate on here (indeed, if one had the time and the wherewithal, a thirty page analysis paper could be written on the subject).
Aside from the reasons already posited--the shortcomings of DS hardware in comparison to the Playstation, the apparent lack of artistic vision at Konami currently in regards to the franchise, and the wonderful effects of rosy nostalgic hindsight--one other facet I've been turning over lately in my head is the seeming dynamic of DS development itself.
With the DS, and, to a similar effect, the Wii, there seems to be a mentality amongst software development on the part of third party companies that "good enough" is more than enough. The DS and the Wii, of course, are practically printing money for Nintendo and everyone involved. The absolute wealth of disposable party, mini-game, and casual gamer oriented games on both systems, and their near-inexplicable phenomenal success, is evidence of a software market where insubstantial obligation is placed on the developer to actually make a good game.
In a market where "Catz," "Dogz," "Horsez", "Aquarium," and "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games" are nearly tentpole marquee attractions for the DS, what incentive is there to really invest the necessary time and effort to actually write and produce a really good game? I'm not saying that the Castlevania efforts on the system have been of the same caliber as the "Petz" riffraff mind you, and I graciously acknowledge that there have been some pretty well done third party games on the DS, but overall, the necessity isn't there to devote the hard work needed to push the system to its limits as should be done, and that, I feel reflects in the unimpressive entries we've seen on the platform in the Castlevania franchise.
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In Reply To #12
I think you have a point there.
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well konami has been cutting back on development, sotn was mostly likely got funds from sony to dev it, since sony had a knack back then to pay a little more so they'd get something special compared to the n64, altho some games were ported to n64 later on with higher resolution graphics,
level design in the new games, lets face it, its lazy in most cases, cept DOS in my opinion was fiarly decent, but the grade size and overall artistic feel on the modern games seems more lackluster, still i have to think about konamis budgets now since even iga has seemed toe xpress they've been limiting his visions to dollar signs, i'm sure sure if the budget was right we'd see a game better then sotn
and technicly the n64 did have better graphics only cause they were sharper, texture tho, 64kb if tecture memory was crap, sorry nintendo if you even gave it 100kb it'd be better, dreamcast had promise, but ps2 to me a dreamcast with some addons, killed it, cept in japan where the console still gets game releases
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The discrepancy between SotN and hand-held CVs can be summed up quite simply: SotN was a console game, the others were not. The target audience for console games is older than the target audience of the GBA/DS games. So atmosphere and level design are more important that variety of abilities or gimmicks. Where as, the emphesis is the other way around for hand-held games.
Unfortunately, SotN was the first and last of it's kind, unless Iga surprises us with a miracle for the xbox360/PS3 CV game....SotN 2!!! wouldn't it be glorious!!??!
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the psp has the potential for similar/superior graphical/sound quality. if nintendo never makes as powerful a handheld, and konami keeps favoring them, then no, no new castlevania on a handheld will ever touch symphony in that particular department.
I'm sure Nintendo will make as powerful a handheld with their next handheld system. Don't assume they won't just because their current system isn't.
I think the reason the games haven't reached the caliber of SotN is that the sales of the Castlevania series haven't ever been too hot. Even SotN itself just barely sold well enough to be put under the Playstation's Platinum Hits, or whatever the Playstation had at the time. ???
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In Reply To #16
Afaik the DS titles sold very well.
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and technicly the n64 did have better graphics only cause they were sharper, texture tho, 64kb if tecture memory was crap
And the 4kb it actually had was worse. 2 if you were mipmapping.
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As long as they're trying to duplicate SotN, the new games will automatically feel less interesting. They should bury the formula and try something completely different, much like Super Metroid was followed up by Metroid Prime.
When LoI came out, I was surprised to see how IGA had been studying Devil May Cry when he, in fact, should've been aiming for Metroid Prime.
Someone at Konami had obviously been playing A LOT of Super Metroid before creating SotN, so why not copy Nintendo again? Or better yet, come up with an original idea.
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If castlevania ever became 1st person, I'd shoot myself if the foot and destroy konami.
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If castlevania ever became 1st person, I'd shoot myself if the foot and destroy konami.
Many people found the Prime games very successful and faithful to the feel of the series.
This new Castelvania arcade game is a little experiment with seeing how Castlevania would play from first person, and the initial impressions are positive.
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Metroid Prime was great. MP2 left me unimpressed. MP3 again had some great new ideas and was awesome. But even better than the Prime series are the 2d titles. In Fusion you were always told where to go, which took from the exploration-gameplay, but therefore the puzzles were more difficult, and so were the bosses. Zero Mission is very similar to SM, but it's like comparing AoS with SotN. SM had great atmosphere and revolutionary leveldesign, whereas ZM was technically very good and allowed fast, skillfull gameplay. You see, though they are all 2d sidescrolling Metroid games, each one is unique.
So, yeah, maybe they can go with Castlevania like Nintendo did with Metroid. I wouldn't mind.
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If castlevania ever became 1st person, I'd shoot myself if the foot and destroy konami.
I didn't mean they should go 1st person. There's more to Metroid Prime than the 1st person view, such as the excellent 3D level design for instance. The level design in both LoI and CoD is just flat, uninspired and downright embarrasing.
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Yeah, MP did have an incredibly cool world. Soooo much better than the flat boring bullshit ps2 castlevania areas. Don't get me wrong, I like the ps2 castlevanias. But... why can't they at least have some platforming... come on. take a hint from the 64 vania's. awesome fighting of LOI and COD combined with cool level designs with awesome platforming = True 3d Castlevania I would pay 100$s for.
But yeah, I love metroid prime. It just pisses me off that I can't SEE samus. She's one of the coolest looking video game characters ever.
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In Reply To #24
And hot too! without her Suit anyway.
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You see her in the elevator cutscenes and when you do Screw Attack :P
Also you can see her face refelcted on the inside of the visor when you shoot a charge shot in a closed space.
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Or during pretty much any cutscene at all.
We ALL know that the only motive for getting %100 in Metroid is to see Samus in significantly fewer clothes. :D
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In Reply To #27
In most titles she takes off her suit if you complete them in a low playtime. Nub.
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Not in any Prime titles, and in ALL the 2D games you have to get a pretty good percentage to see her without the suit.
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In Reply To #29
Whoever said the reason why they are less interesting is because they are copying, i think you are wrong and this is why.
To me its that they are copying and yet leaving out some of the cooler features of Sotn.
Idk bout you guys but getting shields and actually seeing them was awesome, as was getting cloaks that changes your uniform. You can't do either anymore.
They took away all those cool input moves, inputting them just made them that much better, it wasn't so EASY.
The graphics look way more mature, and natural felt more real.
Down to the music, the music had some moments that were so creepy, almost like atmospheric music that helped the backgrounds of the game.
These are the reasons as to why the new ones aren't matching. IMO
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PoR actually had a couple of input moves, too, with Jonathan's martial arts skills.
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But they were weak.
It is also weird that you obtained some of them as subweapons anyway. o_o
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But they were weak.
It is also weird that you obtained some of them as subweapons anyway. o_o
Actually I think you could ONLY obtain them as sub-weapons.
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In Reply To #33
No.
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Well I mean you won them from quests though
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I've never actually played SotN and I love both DS games that everyone here hates. If you would just stop comparing the penis sizes of different games to each other and enjoy them for their merits, you'd probably be a happier person.
(I use "you" here in terms of speaking to a group)
But seriously, of all game fanbases I've been too, Castlevania fans seem to bitch the most. I don't see why- plenty of good games have been thrown our way after SotN, just not QUITE as good. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy them.
I don't see it as "bitching" as much as tough love. Us Castlevania fans are very critical of the games in our series, and who wouldn't be given the exceptionally well produced and innovative Symphony of the Night. While we may sound harsh about other games in the series, I doubt that any of us would consider them completely atrocious. Each game, I believe, has a different quality to it, some greater than others; these can be measured by the combination of not only gameplay, but art design, graphical prowess, soundtrack, and many other important features that are combined to craft the CastleVania experience. In my opinion, Symphony of the Night captured this experience better than any other game I have played in the series, and to judge other CV titles by this standard is thus a true necessity.
While it's nice to see the more current titles emulate and add on to the same great gameplay, at times, many of the other properties of the games may be unbalanced when matched against how they play. For instance, Harmony of Dissonance had many inventive locals and artistry, as well as great graphics for a GBA title, but the soundtrack was quite not up to snuff with other CV games, especially SotN. Portait of Ruin had some nice gameplay with a very well composed soundtrack, but the style of the graphics and art, particularly its repetition and unfortunately ill-produced and obvious Anime design was not up to the same caliber as Cv's flagship title, SotN.
Do these factors mean that these games were bad? Of course not: by no means does a lower amount of polish than the best game in the series means a undependable game. Quite frankly, Portait of Ruin was one of the best games I played on the DS, and Harmony of Dissonance was a fantastic GBA game and definetaly up in my top ten for the system. When we compare a CV title by using SotN as the grand model, it is no different from comparing a Pink Floyd CD with Dark Side of the Moon, or a Metallica album with Master of Puppets. As it stands, comparing new CV titles with SotN is not a absolute hatred of the title, but merely a way of measuring how well it captures the CastleVania experience.
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What you're saying would make sense if it was reflected in most of the posts I've read here, but I very rarely see anything positive said about PoR or DoS. It feels as though many Castlevania fans feel like they're getting cheated out of another SotN-level game every time they play something that just doesn't quite live up to SotN. I can understand being disappointed in certain aspects of a game that's received a lot of hype... but this just seems over the top.
Maybe I'm just used to the relatively mellow Metroid fanbase. Metroid fans are used to being neglected by Nintendo.
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I think the series does have to move on from the DS, there's just not much more they can accomplish with the medium, where the series is concerned.
And it's very likely this IS the last DS entry
To be honest, the PSP is much better suited to reaccomplish something along the quality of SotN, but the userbase isn't really there for that system. And even then you'd have to deal with screen blur and a slightly weaker battery.
And as much as I dislike HoD as a Castlevania, I do think it is a decent enough videogame by itself.
I would say DOS came the closest to recapturing the SotN-feel and presentation, but it suffered from some weird level designs and a rather uninteresting plot.
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If your right, Antraxx, and I honestly hope not, then I hope that this CV can be a final hurrah for the SotN style CV game. I still say theres hope in Digital Marketplaces such as WiiWare, PSN, and Xbox Arcade, but hopefully demand will warrant a CV title for those platforms, a factor I can't say exists with certainty...
I just hope a new CV title with new gameplay style can be created, but I just don't see that happening very easily...