Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: eternal night on October 14, 2010, 11:11:48 PM
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I caught something during Pan's dialogue when he is laying on the ground dying that I thought was interesting.
In regards to his own demise, Pan says: "We must all make sacrifices in order to find *redemption*."
Is is possible that Pan (having lived countless years) was merely being denied his place in Heaven all this time and could not die until he sacrificed himself for the greater good? Compare this to how some speculate Gabriel has been denied his place in Heaven based on what we see at the end.
Perhaps in God's wisdom, He has chosen Gabriel to stay on Earth and await Satan's immeant return. Gabriel, on the other hand, does not agree with this and feels such a fate is unfair and he then renounces God and becomes the Prince of Darkness.
Thoughts?
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That's pretty much what I've theorized, with a few small detail being different. I'm hoping that at the end of the next game we see Gabe/Drac finally find redemption and enter into his rest.
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I think there may be possibly another game or two until we actually get that point.
I think the Epilogue of Lords of Shadow is basically one of those Carrot and Stick situations, and we will have be carried along on the journey until we actually reach that culmination.
I mean I don't see much reason for Konami / MercurySteam to build up this reboot only just to end it shortly after it's creation and since Kojima is also involved you know how things can be dragged out.
Basically I think Gabriel will become Castlevania's equivalent of Big Boss / Naked Snake and the next hero that is introduced will be basically Solid Snake (possibly Simon Belmont or some other person who inherits the Combat Cross / Vampire Killer)
Basically Gabriel is good or tried his best to be good but under extenuating circumstances of being unaccepted into Heaven and not being able be with his wife Marie again sends him over the brink in which he turns his back on God and becomes Dracula embittered with the irony of the situation.
I think another Brotherhood or Light or some other aspiring Hero will need to quell Gabriel when he decides to take his anger out on the world.
Basically a tale of two shades of gray, This new hero trying to stop Gabriel / Dracula for lashing out at world which creates the identity of a new protagonist while Gabriel eventually becomes tired of all the fighting after hundreds of years and in the end decides to isolate himself from the rest of the world which Zobek is finally finds him after searching for him for a long period of time to warn him of the coming threat.
However Gabriel still unable to trust of Zobek due to his his manipulations and being indirectly responsible for the death of his Marie puts him at odds.
Which creates a scenario of 3 different opposing forces all fighting against each other, the unnamed protagonist possible Belmont descendants, Gabriel / Dracula, and Zobek all against each other for different reasons.
All the while Satan is slowly building his power behind the scenes which the new protagonist whoever it may be, Zobek, and Gabriel / Dracula will need to but their differences aside to deal with Satan's imminent return far stronger then before.
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I'm hoping as well they don't skip over that 900 year period.
Consider this possibility. Gabe/Marie had a child before she passed. Gabe renounces God and becomes the Prince of Darkness. The child is raised by Gandolfi and trained in the ways of hunting vampires. His name....Simon.
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Better yet, gabriel and marie have a child and his name is Adrian
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Better yet, gabriel and marie have a child and his name is Adrian
lol.
I'm sure Pan is someone we know, or at least he intervenes later in the saga, i certainly don't think MercurySteam created him for nothing, he may well be a readaptation/reimagining/primitive form of a known character or a force between some known events at the least.
I think he died, but, forever? I don't think so (No CV character does this, except for the Belmonts themselves :P )
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I'm hoping as well they don't skip over that 900 year period.
Consider this possibility. Gabe/Marie had a child before she passed. Gabe renounces God and becomes the Prince of Darkness. The child is raised by Gandolfi and trained in the ways of hunting vampires. His name....Simon.
wouldn hi snam ebe trevor? since trevor comes before simon in the belmont lineage? or are we writing trevor out
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wouldn't he be leon in that case then
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wouldn't he be leon in that case then
We all pretty much agree LoI could be well retconned
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there's nothing contradicting leon's birth.
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there's nothing contradicting leon's birth.
Still Cox himself stated that Lords of Shadow does not tie into IGA's continuity.
And even if it did manage to tie in somehow. Lords of Shadow takes place in 1047, where as Lament of Innocence was 1094.
IF by chance Gabriel and Marie had a child just before she died prior to the events of Lords of Shadow going by example of the two dates. This child would be 47 years old by the time Lament of Innocence takes place. Still both games are essentially in two separate time lines.
For all we know Gabriel could have possibly had another son with another Woman after he became Dracula becoming Cox's version of Alucard who might as well be evil instead of the "good" character that takes place in IGA's time line.
That is the beauty of having two different continuities. Both time lines having their own continuity having similar characters in name could very well be entirely different in terms of personality. Since this is a reboot the story can go in pretty much any direction and has all sorts of possibilities to be had.
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my point basically is if they're going to grab the name of a belmont for gabriel's son, and if the names are being chosen by who was first, it'd be leon.
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Mathias becoming Dracula is better than Gabriel becoming Dracula anyway, nothing beats his epic speech:
"If limited life is God's decree, then I shall defy it!! And within that eternity, I shall curse Him forevermore!"
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/Untitled2-1.png)
<3 mathias
I am against the idea of MercurySteam reimagining more characters, esp. Alucard. Why can't they create new heroes instead & just keep surnames?
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Well, they did create new heroes and villains. But they've also peppered the game with a few oldie but goodies. Zobek, Pan, Claudia, Baba Yaga, and Satan are all new to the series. Returning characters are different enough where you're like "oh ok.. a 'nod', or just a reference".
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I think the storyline of LOS can't be related to LOI in any ways.
The name of the characters are the same, but not their story neither their appearances.
In 1989' Tim Burton BATMAN, the hero fights against the Joker and kills it.
Oh miracle ! In 2088' Olan BATMAN, the Joker reborns and fight Batman again !
How could it be possible ?
It's a REBOOT.
I'm angry with Dave Cox, because he feels himself obliged to talk about Gandolfi, Cronqvist or such crazy inconsistent characters, ONLY to satisfy fans of LOI and IGA.
Gandolfi from LOS is not the same as Gandolfi in LOI.
Belmont in LOS are not the same as Belmont in LOI.
Even Dracula, of course, is not the same.
It's pretty the same with the name of the game, he confessed he choosed this name to follow the tradition of all IGA games "Something of Something", just to satisfy IGAfans which is quite stupid because a renew/reborn of the franchise could have been totally different : renamed character, renamed games, renamed heros and villains,...
Castlevania Judgment was the only exception and honestly, I like this name very much, although the game which is the shit everyone knows.
I hope there'll not be any Lords of Shadow 2, but another "Castlevania Bloodlines" "Castlevania Adventure" or something like that, I'm really bored of all these stupids name. At least, Lords of Shadow means something and is directly related to the game. Harmony of despair is by far the most stupid video game name I heard.
But we're not talking about that....
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Mathias becoming Dracula is better than Gabriel becoming Dracula anyway, nothing beats his epic speech:
"If limited life is God's decree, then I shall defy it!! And within that eternity, I shall curse Him forevermore!"
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/c0mbat/Untitled2-1.png)
<3 mathias
I am against the idea of MercurySteam reimagining more characters, esp. Alucard. Why can't they create new heroes instead & just keep surnames?
I don't think Alucard would fit in this storyline at all. Story aside, "Alucard" is possibly the cheesiest name in the saga (I remember facepalming when I read it upon SotN's release, and I was a teenager back then) and fitting it in the middle of the other characters would be a pain. Either they changed his name, or played around it (like something he would make up on the moment to avoid revealing his true name, in which case it could make sense), or he would stick out like a sore thumb.
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Adrian would be a fine name, though.
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Mmm yes indeed Adrian would fit quite well and besides, we'd all know who he is. Only thing is for Adrian to make an appearance he'd have to be Gabriel's son which.....which would also make him a Belmont....
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8103/1282617617745.gif)
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I caught something during Pan's dialogue when he is laying on the ground dying that I thought was interesting.
In regards to his own demise, Pan says: "We must all make sacrifices in order to find *redemption*."
Is is possible that Pan (having lived countless years) was merely being denied his place in Heaven all this time and could not die until he sacrificed himself for the greater good? Compare this to how some speculate Gabriel has been denied his place in Heaven based on what we see at the end.
Perhaps in God's wisdom, He has chosen Gabriel to stay on Earth and await Satan's immeant return. Gabriel, on the other hand, does not agree with this and feels such a fate is unfair and he then renounces God and becomes the Prince of Darkness.
Thoughts?
Wow, nice catch. I never thought it about it before but that would make a lot of sense...Like others, I'm sure he'll be back at some point.
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Mmm yes indeed Adrian would fit quite well and besides, we'd all know who he is. Only thing is for Adrian to make an appearance he'd have to be Gabriel's son which.....which would also make him a Belmont....
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8103/1282617617745.gif)
Haven't checked it myself, but someone told me that in Gabe's profile, it says he's an adopted son of the Belmonts, but was really a bastard son of the Cronqvist.... or something like that.
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I think on Twitter, Cox confirmed that Gabriel was still the "first Belmont" though later on though.
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One of the most intriguing things about Pan is... it's him telling you to get the Gauntlet from the Dark Knight. Not Zobek. In fact, Zobek seems almost surprised by that turn of events (and pleased, for reasons made obvious by the ending).
However, in the ending Zobek acts like you getting the gauntlet was his idea all along. And if Pan is good, how does that make sense?
It's hard to imagine Zobek and Pan working together (even if Zobek's statement that he is "an old friend of Pan" is part of his charade); they seem to go towards completely different goals.
If anything, it's quite clear that Pan knows more thank Zobek does, and almost certainly he knows who Zobek really is and how Gabriel is being manipulated, and more importantly, he knows about Satan too - he's basically training Gabriel to fight him, very specifically.
If Pan is actually by God's side, why doesn't he warn Gabriel about Zobek? Just like Marie, he has faith in him and doesn't want to shatter his resolve? But more importantly, why does he push Gabriel to get the gauntlet, if that means basically making him Zobek's bitch?
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "plothole", but Pan's role is definitely the most mysterious in the game.
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One of the most intriguing things about Pan is... it's him telling you to get the Gauntlet from the Dark Knight. Not Zobek. In fact, Zobek seems almost surprised by that turn of events (and pleased, for reasons made obvious by the ending).
However, in the ending Zobek acts like you getting the gauntlet was his idea all along. And if Pan is good, how does that make sense?
It's hard to imagine Zobek and Pan working together (even if Zobek's statement that he is "an old friend of Pan" is part of his charade); they seem to go towards completely different goals.
If anything, it's quite clear that Pan knows more thank Zobek does, and almost certainly he knows who Zobek really is and how Gabriel is being manipulated, and more importantly, he knows about Satan too - he's basically training Gabriel to fight him, very specifically.
If Pan is actually by God's side, why doesn't he warn Gabriel about Zobek? Just like Marie, he has faith in him and doesn't want to shatter his resolve? But more importantly, why does he push Gabriel to get the gauntlet, if that means basically making him Zobek's bitch?
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "plothole", but Pan's role is definitely the most mysterious in the game.
This is going to turn into MGS, I just know it. I think you it the nail on the head though considering Pan never seems to have any reason to help Gabriel. It seems like Pan's purpose is to make events play out in a certain fashion, it also seems like Pan can maybe see the future? I doubt that this is the last we will hear of Pan.
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If Pan is actually by God's side, why doesn't he warn Gabriel about Zobek?
cuz that's not how video games work, dude :P