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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: cecil-kain on August 11, 2011, 09:05:34 AM

Title: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: cecil-kain on August 11, 2011, 09:05:34 AM
http://www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-producer-working-on-two-new-projects/ (http://www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-producer-working-on-two-new-projects/)

Lords of Shadow 2 seems to be a given, but what about this other one?  Lords of Shadow 3DS, perhaps?
:rollseyes:
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kingshango on August 11, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
We know LoS 2 is coming but I didn't know they were making two games.

The other game could be a 2.5D LoS spinoff for the 3DS, which I am slightly ok with as long as it's not fully 3D like LoS.


Oh and as much as I liked LoS, it better not be the anniversary project, leave that for the one's who can do It justice.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 11, 2011, 09:30:28 AM
Quote from: Crisis
Castlevania: Oblivium Sempiternum Daemonis for 3DS, it will be set between LoS & LoS2


I called it.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 11, 2011, 09:56:35 AM
I don't think they're working on TWO Castlevania games, or has that been confirmed? If not, the other game could be anything, it's probably not even a Konami game.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on August 11, 2011, 10:10:26 AM
^^^ Agreed. Mercury Steam isn't a Konami owned developer, hence it's quite possible one(or even both) of those titles are for other developers.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: uzo on August 11, 2011, 11:04:32 AM
I thought I've heard otherwise. I recall hearing they are a studio under Konami's Europe division.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 11, 2011, 11:13:46 AM
Clive Barker's Jericho was published by Codemasters in 2007. Though Konami maybe bought Mercury Steam after that? I have no idea.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on August 11, 2011, 11:20:22 AM
1 of them has to be LOS2.

But the 2nd one better not be a 3DS game.

The handheld 2.D games is IGA's department so STAY OUT COX! >:(
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 11, 2011, 11:55:36 AM
cox refuses to oblige
he's literally gone mad with power
pretty soon we'll start to see him wearing stylish hats & brandishing a giant crucifix
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Maedhros on August 11, 2011, 12:01:46 PM
1 of them has to be LOS2.

But the 2nd one better not be a 3DS game.

The handheld 2.D games is IGA's department so STAY OUT COX! >:(
If it's a 2D game and has the quality of the animations from the book in the game (the animations showing the moves), it would be alright for me.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Dominus on August 11, 2011, 12:45:03 PM
Who else would love LoS2 to be MS version of Cv3 with Zobek, Carmilla and Cornell

Make it happen Cox
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 11, 2011, 12:48:35 PM
Quote
Oh and as much as I liked LoS, it better not be the anniversary project, leave that for the one's who can do It justice.
And you think that Konami (IGA) can do it justice?
Ha-ha-ha... ;D

If anything I have more faith in MS that they could create a quality game. At this point it would be very good thing.

Quote
Who else would love LoS2 to be MS version of Cv3 with Zobek, Carmilla and Cornell
You'll put yourself under fire. 
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kingshango on August 11, 2011, 01:07:04 PM
And you think that Konami (IGA) can do it justice?
Ha-ha-ha... ;D

No, not IGA


(http://www.d3publisher.us/images/Logos_Developers/Wayforward_Logo_Vecotr_blac.jpg)

It's either them or no one else.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on August 11, 2011, 01:22:06 PM
What about...
(http://nscene.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/retro-studios-logo1.jpg?w=640&h=392&crop=1)...?

Or will Nintendo not allow 'em?  DKCReturns was the SHIZNIT!
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 11, 2011, 02:03:20 PM
Quote
If anything I have more faith in MS that they could create a quality game.

Quality game? Sure. Quality Castlevania game? Dunno yet.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kingshango on August 11, 2011, 02:04:28 PM
I think Nintendo has Retro chained by the hip but it would be awesome if they did a Castlevania game.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Dremn on August 11, 2011, 02:48:28 PM
Maybe it's that Contra reboot.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on August 11, 2011, 03:17:45 PM
Maybe it's that Contra reboot.
Contra reboot.... "Contra: Tides of War". Set in a realistic, gritty world, it abandons the whole alien aspect and spins a "Medal of Honor" type setting applied to a 3D take on the original's action gunner/platformer.  ;D
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Foffy on August 11, 2011, 03:21:44 PM
You know, Cox said he wanted to work on a Contra game, and Konami's E3 2011 teaser is supposedly unrelated to the 3DS Contra game they announced a year prior.

But at the same time, I do believe MercurySteam had a prototype Castlevania test running on 3DS, so this can go either way..
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: whitedragon_nall on August 11, 2011, 03:46:29 PM
I guess LoS 2 is pretty much inevitable, though I'd prefer they stay away from Castlevania. The Contra reboot sounds plausible for game #2.

I'd love a Retro-made Castlevania. Maybe if Konami made one for the 3DS, Wii, or Wii U, Nintendo would let them "borrow" Retro.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Munchy on August 11, 2011, 05:22:38 PM
No, not IGA


(http://www.d3publisher.us/images/Logos_Developers/Wayforward_Logo_Vecotr_blac.jpg)

It's either them or no one else.

I'd love this, but sadly they'll likely be occupied with the Silent Hill game no one will buy. Great going Konami.

LoS2 needs improvements over LoS to look at all appealing to me. And Cox confirmed he isn't doing the Contra reboot, so it might be for some other publisher?
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 11, 2011, 05:37:16 PM
so you want more wall-shimmying right Munch? Those were your favorite parts!
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: cecil-kain on August 11, 2011, 05:53:38 PM
Retro Studios + Castlevania = EXTREME WIN!

Those guys did an EXCELLENT job with both Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Country.  There were so many ways to FUBAR those games, but they RESPECTED the source material --and I daresay, outdid Ninetendo on their own turf...

I'd LOVE to see someone put Konami to shame like that...
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 11, 2011, 07:28:10 PM
Quote
Quality game? Sure. Quality Castlevania game? Dunno yet.
At this point even that would be good.

Besides, everyone have different opinions about what Castlevania is, so for some LOS is the Castlevania already.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on August 11, 2011, 07:29:42 PM
At this point even that would be good.

Besides, everyone have different opinions about what Castlevania is, so for some LOS is the Castlevania already.

Yea but the fact remains that LOS has obviously divided the Castlevania fanbase.

I agree that it may be a good idea to let some other developer handle the castlevania game.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Maedhros on August 11, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Retro Studios + Castlevania = EXTREME WIN!

Those guys did an EXCELLENT job with both Metroid Prime
Questionable. I never got into the series, for example.
and Donkey Kong Country.  There were so many ways to FUBAR those games, but they RESPECTED the source material --and I daresay, outdid Ninetendo on their own turf...

I'd LOVE to see someone put Konami to shame like that...
I agree with everything else you said. Even if I don't like a lot of things of the Prime series, I see they keep the essence of the series intact. Same with Donkey Kong Country Returns.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Neobelmont on August 11, 2011, 08:32:34 PM


How about (http://media.strategywiki.org/images/8/82/ArcSystemWorks_logo.png) and (http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/7422/1098103-vanillaware_small_logo_super.png) I feel like I am beating a dead horse with these two :rollseyes:

Yet Hard corps, Muramasa, and Odin Sphere are awesome games so maybe it is not that bad to mention these two:)
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Odile Kuronuma on August 11, 2011, 09:48:04 PM
Ah my two favorite studios. I'm not sure about Arc System though, unless they make a CV fighter(in 2D of course).
But I think VanillaWare can pull off a good castlevania game, just because they're badass at 2D.
I'm playing Muramasa right now. Excellent game.It's a little more action based than Odin Sphere, but the graphics are gorgeous and the story is epic. And the music is awesome too.
Yep they really should work on CV.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 11, 2011, 09:57:09 PM
Really? do I have to point this one out? Really?
Really?

Its Los2 and 3, gaming franchises are plagued with trilogies, its a current Cliche in any form of entertainment.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: JR on August 12, 2011, 12:12:33 AM
I'd wager it's LoS2 and something non-CV related. I'd assume they'll still be developing other games for other companies.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kale on August 12, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
I doubt any company really works on both games at once when they're sequels... maybe a spin off. But I doubt that too.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on August 12, 2011, 12:36:11 AM
Really? do I have to point this one out? Really?
Really?

Its Los2 and 3, gaming franchises are plagued with trilogies, its a current Cliche in any form of entertainment.
I really hate the whole trend and idea of trilogies in general. Especially in Hollywood. Everytime a movie is made with the hope of(by some sliver of hope) continuing on the tale, they always have contracts where the actors and actresses sign up for a three-picutre deal. Out of the whole contract thing, I just can't see the whole ideology behind a trilogy. RARELY does it ever work, mainly because, as it is, sequels tend to suck, but by the third movie, which is the END, so much pressure is on your to make it a GOOD end piece, usually in the hectic time of rushing to get it out, some vital pieces are cut from the project and it always falls apart. It's biting off more you can chew. I think, in some fantasy dream world, the idea of a nice three part tale is wonderful, but in reality, to pull off something isn't so easy. It would be much better just to leave things open and not box yourself into a corner. Just say, "It ends when it ends!". Nothing's definite in this world. The only certainty in this world is uncertainty.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 12, 2011, 03:31:03 AM
Still, Cox once said something like: "I don't want to become Mr Castlevania. I'd like to make maybe one more game and then pass the torch."

I don't expect Mercury Steam to make LOS3. LOS2 will probably sell poorly compared to LOS, sequels often do, and Konami is all about sales.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 12, 2011, 05:45:53 AM
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Cox is not Mercurysteam.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 12, 2011, 07:51:00 AM
the trillogy thing can probably be traced back to LoTR. Except in that case, the books were a trillogy as well.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: cecil-kain on August 12, 2011, 09:06:38 AM
I really hate the whole trend and idea of trilogies in general. Especially in Hollywood. Everytime a movie is made with the hope of(by some sliver of hope) continuing on the tale, they always have contracts where the actors and actresses sign up for a three-picutre deal. Out of the whole contract thing, I just can't see the whole ideology behind a trilogy. RARELY does it ever work, mainly because, as it is, sequels tend to suck, but by the third movie, which is the END, so much pressure is on your to make it a GOOD end piece, usually in the hectic time of rushing to get it out, some vital pieces are cut from the project and it always falls apart. It's biting off more you can chew. I think, in some fantasy dream world, the idea of a nice three part tale is wonderful, but in reality, to pull off something isn't so easy. It would be much better just to leave things open and not box yourself into a corner. Just say, "It ends when it ends!". Nothing's definite in this world. The only certainty in this world is uncertainty.

The trilogy concept goes back to the Greek theatre of ancient antiquity --the classic 3 Act play...  Unfortunately Hollywood trilogies are so bent on selling individual movies, that they loose sight of the original concept.  Act 1 Introductions/Quest.  Act 2 Conflict.  Act 3 Climax/Resolution.  These acts were never meant to stand alone as independent stories.  Although the LotR movies are actually a terrific example of doing it right --Hollywood is more interested in quick profits than investing in epic story-telling.

With that said, I would argue that the open-ended approach leads to an aimless narrative --even moreso in video games than movies.  Take Castlevania for example.  These games originally had a narrative "Dracula rises every hundred years and a Belmont goes to kill him"  That in itself meant that either the story stops when we hit present time, or we go into future-vania.  IGA tried to solve the problem by introducing Soma Cruz, but after Aria --we can see now that he really didn't know where to take the idea...  So we had all of these early resurrections and side stories cluttering and confusing the continuity for the sake of petty profits.  Then at some point, someone at Konami woke up and realized that mainstream gamers were no longer buying Castlevania --in part because they couldn't make sense of their abused narrative anymore.  So rather than wrap up the continuity properly --they just reboot the whole damn thing.  Although I'm not a big fan of trilogies, I think you get the best story-telling when there is a proper climactic ending to the narrative.  Then you can reboot to keep it fresh and keep everyone on board.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 12, 2011, 09:32:40 AM
the way I put it, LOS2 better pick up after the Dracula Scene.

going into the Dracula vs. Satan thing is a great and Fresh Concept.

The Thought of LoS3 is very resounding, since it feels like a big story, I just Hope Mercury Stream doesn't Trash the main Character like Sony Did Kratos,
(in GoW he was reasonable on his motives and a badass, GoW2+3 He's just an Over Powered Spoiled Child Crybaby "Whaaaa I can't have my way, DIE, Whaaaaa!"


If any LoS Haters wanna pop up, I got one thing to say....
the Original was Akumajo Dracula, the story is Centered around Dracula, Sure the story goes in depth with Belmonts and the others but ultimately Dracula.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 12, 2011, 09:36:22 AM
Just because the series is about Dracula doesn't mean making him the protagonist is a good idea, though.   
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 12, 2011, 09:39:28 AM
Just because the series is about Dracula doesn't mean making him the protagonist is a good idea, though.

*ahem* Aria and Dawn of Sorrow Sold many, many copies.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 12, 2011, 09:49:00 AM
Dawn of Sorrow had anime artwork as well. And you know how many people here thought that was a good idea. 
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 12, 2011, 09:55:36 AM
yeah, the Anime thing was horrible, which is also why PoR didn't sell all that hot.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 12, 2011, 10:03:53 AM
We know they changed back to a more serious style afterwards, but we can't say it it's the reason for declining sales. Same with how you say that because Aria sold well, it must be because Dracula is the protagonist.     
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 12, 2011, 10:42:40 AM
Dawn only sold well because the game was very good and showcased the DS very well, Combined with the fact that quite a few people have played Aria and the Upgradable souls were a must, part of it has to do with protagonist dracula but mostly rides on the success of Aria, and it being an early great DS title.

PoR was a pretty fun game, but the Anime Plague crippled it, where the characters were so bland it wasn't funny, it wasn't til half way through when the true PoR starts being told.
the first half was Extra dialogue, the priest, typical Retard who's cool with everything Jonathan, I don't want to be treated like a child no. 197846854876587091365987136509316496757 093485329857340985132098573014975 Charlotte, and He who looks nothing like himself "Wind"
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 12, 2011, 01:12:20 PM
Dawn only sold well because the game was very good and showcased the DS very well.

PoR was a pretty fun game, but the Anime Plague crippled it, where the characters were so bland it wasn't funny, it wasn't til half way through when the true PoR starts being told.

Dawn was excellent IMO and it's still my favourite of the DS trilogy. The anime look doesn't bother me. Maybe cause I know absolutely nothing about anime. It felt fresh to me because of it.

Also, about PoR; While I agree with what you say, the second part was also (ironically enough) less fun, gameplaywise, because of all the remixed portraits. I really felt the game should've been shorter, even if it's not that long to begin with. It's just that the background graphics are soooo damn repetitive towards the end. In PoR's defense, the Brauner battle was EXCELLENT.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 12, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
Quote
Yea but the fact remains that LOS has obviously divided the Castlevania fanbase.
So? It's always happens when series change itself.
It's impossible to always retreading the same thread and pleasing everyone. Someone will be disappointed anyway no matter what Konami will do. They create another "metroidvania" - people will hate the same old concept. They create something new - people will hate that it's not repetition of the past formula. With such logic it's simplier for series to just die already, since it's impossible to please several groups of fans at the same time. Especially given how rich history of CV was and how many major and minor chnages series had over the years.

And besides, like it or not, but series must change. It's a given. It's impossible to create games and cought the same spirit as 10 years ago. Understanbly someone will be displeased, but games created for money first and foremost, not for relatively small bunch of people who think that this is art or something.
And I don't think that creators will be plaeased themself to rercreate one and the same game over and over.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on August 12, 2011, 01:53:58 PM
So?

So?

So my point is that it would probably be a better idea to let some other developer have a crack at a Castlevania game.

I thought I made that much obvious.

Like I said there are fans of LOS (like you) who will defend to the end that it is indeed a good CV game.

And then there are fans (like me) who do not think of it as a proper CV game.

That is just the way things are.

People have differing opinions.

But I think the division between the fanbase can only hurt further LOS sales.

Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 12, 2011, 02:31:36 PM
Eye for won believe that it's entirely possible to have another developer create a game that does Castlevania justice so that it pleases everyone, the formula for the classics is not broken and metroidvania can see glory once again if done right, in a way that no one's offended. I don't know why Konami can't realize this.

That's why I'm hoping MercurySteam adds a lot more traditional elements, if they studied the N64 vanias that woulda helped tremendously
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: cecil-kain on August 12, 2011, 02:36:53 PM
So? It's always happens when series change itself.
It's impossible to always retreading the same thread and pleasing everyone. Someone will be disappointed anyway no matter what Konami will do. They create another "metroidvania" - people will hate the same old concept. They create something new - people will hate that it's not repetition of the past formula. With such logic it's simplier for series to just die already, since it's impossible to please several groups of fans at the same time. Especially given how rich history of CV was and how many major and minor chnages series had over the years.

And besides, like it or not, but series must change. It's a given. It's impossible to create games and cought the same spirit as 10 years ago. Understanbly someone will be displeased, but games created for money first and foremost, not for relatively small bunch of people who think that this is art or something.
And I don't think that creators will be plaeased themself to rercreate one and the same game over and over.

I don't know of anyone here that plays Castlevania for the sake of recycled "cookie-cutter" experiences.  Change is expected -particularly- in the form of improving production values --and that is the heart of the matter.  Let's look at Hollywood for just a moment...  How many times was the Dracula story successfully refilmed for a new generation?  Each of those classic movies reflected change in their time.  And though many took certain stylistic liberties, they respected the Bram Stoker Novel.  Lords of Shadow is devisive because the change it delivers offends many fans' views on Castlevania.  Would Mercury Steam's work have been any less impressive without the Castlevania branding?  "Bait and switch" can certainly boost the sales, but that doesn't necessarily translate into happy customers.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: C Belmont on August 12, 2011, 05:12:07 PM
Quote
And besides, like it or not, but series must change. It's a given. It's impossible to create games and cought the same spirit as 10 years ago

I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.
Castlevania has done change, it's had too much change in my opinion - It's changed heroes, it's changed art styles, it's changed gameplay. What it really needs is consistency, rebooting the series is just more change.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 12, 2011, 05:52:18 PM
So?

So my point is that it would probably be a better idea to let some other developer have a crack at a Castlevania game.

I thought I made that much obvious.

Like I said there are fans of LOS (like you) who will defend to the end that it is indeed a good CV game.

And then there are fans (like me) who do not think of it as a proper CV game.

That is just the way things are.

People have differing opinions.

But I think the division between the fanbase can only hurt further LOS sales.

Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.
I don't know how anyone can lay this at LoS' feet, though.  The fanbase has been splintered to hell and back since SotN.  If anything, Konami and MS made up some ground with LoS by bringing in a fresh crop of fans.  THAT'S what change does.  It attracts new-comers to a long winded series by injecting it with a fresh approach. Yea, yea,  I know...us old timers don't like TOO much change.  I hear ya.  But that's just the way it is. 

I still think LoS2 has a legit chance of making up for the first game's less-CV like approach if they inject more traditional CV elements into the gameplay and clean up the action bits (less shimmying, more analog platforming, less arena combat, better or fewer puzzles, less or no QTE's).  And given how well LoS did in sales compared to previous 3DVanias I see no harm in letting MS give it another shot.  I'm sure I get labeled as a "LoS fanboi" for making such statements, but in reality I'm just recognizing potential...rather than just taking to outright disillusionment.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on August 13, 2011, 12:09:59 AM
I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.
Castlevania has done change, it's had too much change in my opinion - It's changed heroes, it's changed art styles, it's changed gameplay. What it really needs is consistency, rebooting the series is just more change.
Actually, you're right. Not all games need change. People tend to use evolution to justify change. But look at life, some creatures haven't evolved much, and are fine the way they are. Hell, cockroaches have stayed the same for millions of years, and they'll probably outlast us humans, the most evolved species on the planet. Nature spits in the face of those who say EVERYTHING has to change. Some change is good, don't get me wrong, but it would be foolish to expect EVERYTHING to change just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 13, 2011, 11:52:51 AM
The thing I'm really interested in knowing is this: how much change did Konami mandate during the LoS' development?  Seems unusual that that game would have started off as a retelling of Simon's first adventure only to end up something so completely different.  So who was to blame?  Did Cox and his team just say "Eff it", and stab off in a random direction after being tasked with the Simon game?  Or did Konami big wigs say "Hey, make it more like that God of War game....and try not to make it too Castlevania-like so we don't scare off new fans".

I dunno.  I enjoyed LoS for what it was, largely because I liked the way Gabriel handled business with the Combat Cross.  But I'd have given anything to hear some familiar tunes or see some more familiar monsters.  That would have made the rest of the less desirable elements acceptable to me....even the dreaded QTE's.  The whole issue with the new plot doesn't bother me, and I find it amusing that so many people here condemn the game on that issue alone.  I've never played a CV game for its story, largely because the story is usually either nonexistent or it is completely laughable.  At worst, LoS simply fails to break with tradition there IMO.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: jestercolony on August 13, 2011, 12:41:03 PM
Lords of Shadow was an excellent attempt at a CV title imo. The only issue for is that I only felt i wasn't a true title because it had been missing certain elements...  I may have to start a new topic on the subject; but LoS2 is a 100% given confirmation; as for the other title, I am slightly curious.

MS's engine is excellent; but it still needs to be worked on. The system is so easy enough to crash that it isn't even funny. Beautiful, but buggy. I for one wish to see where this company will take it. Retro Studios (please some correct me if I am wrong.) as I heard of them (they did one hell of a fantastic job with the MP series; I am a huge fan of Metroid btw.) but I had heard that Nintendo shut them down or they had shut themselves down due to budgeting?

Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 13, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote
Thats why the best thing to do would be to see how some other developer handles the Castlevania name.
I am not against it. I am completely for that as long as franchise will stay away from the hands of IGA and the final product will be decent.

The only thing I am against is senseless bashing of LOS on every occasion. Some people made it clear that they don't like this game, but it doesn't mean that they must state it every single time they post. It's simply annoying.

Quote
Eye for won believe that it's entirely possible to have another developer create a game that does Castlevania justice so that it pleases everyone, the formula for the classics is not broken and metroidvania can see glory once again if done right, in a way that no one's offended. I don't know why Konami can't realize this.
It's impossible. Series has too many faces and too many changes over the years, so creating a Castlevania that will combine everything that people love about the series is impossible task to do. If someone try to create such a game he will epicly fail, because the final result will be inconsistent mish mash of tones, styles without much of idea or underlying desighn for it. Sort of like HD.
If they want to create good Castlevania they must stick to the single idea / design what game is about.

And "metroidvania" is not classic formula and it's tired by now. Too many mediocre products were done in this style and even good ones weren't that different from Symphony of the Night. Personally I don't want another SOTN clone and that's why I stick to something different.

Quote
I don't know of anyone here that plays Castlevania for the sake of recycled "cookie-cutter" experiences.
From reactions that I've seen about LOS and prospect of yet another "IGAvania" it looks like some people really want every CV game to be a SOTN clone. Gladly IGA himself done everything to reduce population of such fans with his "cloning" exercises.

Quote
Lords of Shadow is devisive because the change it delivers offends many fans' views on Castlevania.
Fans must be more acceptable about changes. Though, stagnancy in minds is expected in this case, since franchise was in the hands of one man for so long and most of his games tryed to replicate one single game. It's like drilling the same idea over and over again. Sadly some people were really succeptible to it.

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I disagree, the spirit of the Mario & Zelda games has remained mostly consistent through the years & look how popular they are.
I don't think that Wind Waker looks like the same old LotZ.
And Mario embraced practically every genre in the begining of it's existance. All consistency that you need about his games is Mario himself, bright colours and happy thoughts.  :rollseyes:
Not very hard to do in my book.

Quote
Actually, you're right. Not all games need change.
Yeahhhh!!! Let's play the same game over and over and over!! Surely there will be people who will love it!!

But as for majority of the gamers? Most likely they will be quite tired about playing the same old game after a while. It will lead either to the death of the franchise or...changes.
And your example about evolution doesn't working. What animals has to do with anything? Do you "enjoy" animals like video games? Play them over and over? Do the animals have the same formula and visual style? Sorry, but your example doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 13, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
"No Change" is the reason the Mega Man franchise is in the spot it is. because Capcom never evolved the formula. They tried twice. Only twice, to bring the series to 3D. 1 was Legends, and we see how that went. 2, was X7, and despite it's problems, it was a good start. However they did not continue it. they went right back to 2D for X8, and made an arguably worse game than any of the 2D's X1-X6.


AT least Castlevania experiments with 3D occasionally. It TRIES to find the right formula. With LoS, it got VERY close. At least as far as gameplay is concerned...

Megaman? Doing 8 bit retro rehashes that only serve to masturbate all over Mega Man 2. with 3 of it's series in limbo, 1 of which got it's sequel canceled.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 13, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
Megaman? Doing 8 bit retro rehashes that only serve to masturbate all over Mega Man 2.

Oh my god, that's exactly what I said about Mgeaman 9, 10, and Universe
despite 7 was the best in original Megaman but was pretty rare


Legends has its quirks, but once you get the controls down, the game plays rather smooth, X7 is just Fail on every aspect
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 13, 2011, 06:07:20 PM
X7 was not fail on "every aspect" for one, it is the best 3D Megaman game graphically- The graphics were great. The music was great. the story was ok. and most of the 3D gameplay was alright. What ultimately killed it was trying to blend both 2D and 3D, meaning you had an autotarget in 2D mode, broken physics engine, (broken dash wall kicking) and dull level design.

but like I said, it was a step in the right direction. one Capcom should have followed.

also, To each their own, but I would say the greatest Classic game is 8. And if not 8, then maybe 6. 7 is just to odd. And I hate the sprite style.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: C Belmont on August 13, 2011, 07:09:47 PM
Quote
I don't think that Wind Waker looks like the same old LoZ.
Really the only thing that changed with Wind waker was the art style everything else was still unmistakably Zelda, it's hero, it's gameplay everything.
Castlevania looks like a creature of chaos by comparison, both Zelda & Mario feel as though their creators have given considerable time and thought into what features define their games while at this stage castlevania is so all over the place it would be difficult for any fan to describe what makes a castlevania game without excluding some entries.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 13, 2011, 08:44:27 PM
Only Flaw with LoZ that your expected to buy the fact that every female in the Royal family in named Zelda, every Man who tries to take over is a Pig Demon Named Ganondorf, and the Hero is always a Dude in a green Skirt and a stupid ass hat. It works when link is a child, but its very laughable on an adult link.

I used to believe that the LoZ games were the same Story as told by different people hence why the hero always does the same thing in the end but everything else could vary.
The Timeline broke that belief and also Completely broke the Zelda Franchise of being taken serious given that Hyrule was taken over MULTIPLE times all by people of the SAME NAME and yet when Ganon no. 10289 shows up, you trust him. The Black sheep Zelda Games shine because it tries something new and usually is regarded Higher than the originals.

Castlevania is ever changing with elements, examples through the games after the original NES game

Castleavnia for the MSX is the First non linear Castlevania, but still stage based (like HD), its more like castlevania 1.5, first to include a character with a shield and changeable main weapon

Castlevania 2 is the first "Metroidvania" game in the franchise, also the only game that pretty much requires a guide, also the first to include a level up system, and events based on item
collection.

Castlevania 3 changes the protagonist, gves you 3 alternate characters to choose from, and Alternate routes!

Haunted Castle gives you the first Terrible castlevania game where the player could regret ever playing.

Adventure gives you bullet whip like Link in LoZ

Adventure 2 gives you stage select in a castlevania game

Legends gives you encounter pits and a Funky soul system as well as a super mode

Bloodlines is the first and only Fast paced castlevania game, also the first to have a character selection at beginning of game, also the only to tour in different parts of europe

Super Castlevania it the Only title to standarize R subweapons and 8-directinal Whipping, and Whip swinging also regarded as the best castlevania game ever

Dracula X Rondo of Blood is basically Castlevania 3 with a stage select, oh yeah and ITEM CRASH. also the first to start the "" of "" title layouts

Dracula X SNES gives you a better stage 1, Better music, and an impossible Dracula Fight

Castlevania 64 + LoD are pretty much the same game, LoD is just a improved version, but leaps into 3d giving you 4 characters to play seperate stories from, also being the first Story driven Castlevania Titles.

Chronicles (X8600 or something) introduces the Herb Subweapon

-------Concluding Classic Era-----

SoTN gives you alucard, a more backtrackable map, a Lazy "Inverted" Castle and 32x leftovers, the Saturn version gives you a little more, also introduces Stat based level ups, first character to use a variety of weapons, also regarded to start "Metroidvania" because peolpe were too stupid to play castlevania 2

CoTM  Gives the DDS System, also the only game to include Tackle, also the game re-canonized the 64 titles, also being the first Castlevania game where Defeating Dracula is the only link to the other games, no Vampire Killer, none of that.

HoD Returns Belmonts to the Story acting as a Refined SoTN for the GBA, also introduces Spellbooks which Vary effects depending on subweapons and books, also the only game where killing dracula involves optional Relic hunting which makes more use of the save rooms, also the first game to allow customization to the vampire killer.

LoI Replaced HoD's Books with orbs but intoduces a new kind of Relic used for battle, also introduces a variety of whips in inventory

AoS introduces the unique and very cool soul system (gotta catch em all), also the first game where Dracula is the Protagonist and the Final Humanoid Boss is a Belmont, also the first game to make Belmonts unlockable

CoD gives you a unique Familiar system as well as the first Beat em up Metroidvania game.

DoS evolves the soul system and also gives you a touchscreen Seal to Defeat bosses, also gives you a 3 character Switch version of Cv3, Online Trading

PoR Gives you an assist version of Cv3, also introduces Special Combo attacks, 2 Simentanious controlable characters, Co-op, first time EVER Tag-team fight with death AND Dracula, Questing, and many new elements.

OoE Gives you a Glyph System, combinable Glyph attacks, Rescuing Villagers, and obstical courses and more.

Judgement gives you a First Fighter.

Rebirth Gives you a classic game when the franchise is ridden with metroidvanias

Arcade gives you the first Rail Shooter

Pachislot 1+2 Takes gambling to a whole new level

HD is the first Online Based Castlevania Game.

LoS, when you think about it, the only new thing its doing is... the Combat Cross and Stockable Subweapons oh and minigames.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 13, 2011, 09:09:42 PM
am getting pretty fucking tired of ppl hating on Haunted Castle all the time  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kale on August 13, 2011, 09:31:00 PM
So.. how about that haunted castle... awesome game eh?

I'm just kidding, I have never played it and it doesn't seem that great >.>
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: uzo on August 13, 2011, 10:33:23 PM
HC brought alternate main weapons, and new sub weapons to the series.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Maedhros on August 13, 2011, 11:58:59 PM
X7 was not fail on "every aspect" for one
X7 is a complete piece of shit, sorry man, but I can't agree with you. The graphics are terrible, the music is fucking ridiculous, the new character is completely unnecessary. X series was supposed to be dead in X5 anyway.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 14, 2011, 12:06:54 AM
From reactions that I've seen about LOS and prospect of yet another "IGAvania" it looks like some people really want every CV game to be a SOTN clone. 

Not liking LoS ≠ Wanting SotN over and over again

You just keep generalizing, though.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 14, 2011, 12:53:27 AM
X7 is a complete piece of shit, sorry man, but I can't agree with you. The graphics are terrible, the music is fucking ridiculous, the new character is completely unnecessary. X series was supposed to be dead in X5 anyway.
Because X8's graphics were so much better? The character models were spot on. and the cell shading made them look smoother. the environments themselves varied from alright to worse, but they were fine. The music definitely has a different feel to it, but it is still good music. dont know what kind of tastes you have, Sigma's battle theme was boss.

Inafune had absolutely NO claim to deciding the series to end at X5. He doesnt own the franchise, he was ever only a character designer. He was producer, and he LEFT during X5, telling the team to finish the series. He couldnt possibly have thought they wouldnt make an X6. And despite whatever he had planned, it DIDNT end at X5. X6-CM are just part of the timeline as X1-X5 are.

And again, as far as things go, it was a decent try for Mega Man's first 3D outing with the traditional formula. a shit first try, they could and should have done better, but a step in the right direction nonetheless. At least Command mission tried something new with much better results. It's graphics were pretty good too actually. So were it's environments.

*in b4 you disagree and think it sucked*
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 14, 2011, 04:45:14 AM
Quote
Haunted Castle gives you the first Terrible castlevania game where the player could regret ever playing.
It wasn't that bad. You just need to setup the game on the lowest difficulty.
Graphics is nice, music is very good. It's nice little game as long as you don't try to complete it on Normal or Hard.

Quote
You just keep generalizing, though.
I have a good reason to.
Because most of the time, when people say what they want in new CV game it's usually "SOTN in 3D with Alucard".
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Successor The Cruel on August 14, 2011, 05:42:11 AM
This is terrible news. I'd hoped to never see those guys ever again. More goblins ahoy!
Oh well. I guess I'll just go on not bothering all that much with new entries in the series until Konami does something I feel is captivating, and MercurySteam coming back doesn't sound very promising to me.

It's a shame about the current state of affairs with the Castlevania series, though. It sucks : p
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Inccubus on August 14, 2011, 06:47:39 AM
I don't think it's MercuryStream's fault. At least not entirely. I think a lot of it was Konami's execs insisting on a "new" approach. Which apparently meant do everything every other successful action game has done and add a convoluted MGS story.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Maedhros on August 14, 2011, 11:29:38 AM
Because X8's graphics were so much better?
No, they sucked too.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kingshango on August 14, 2011, 11:31:49 AM
I don't think it's MercuryStream's fault. At least not entirely. I think a lot of it was Konami's execs insisting on a "new" approach. Which apparently meant do everything every other successful action game has done and add a convoluted MGS story.



For real, Mercurysteam may have made the game but the suits at Konami are the one's who really pulling the strings during development. Let not forget that Konami told Araujo to make the music sound like a movie and ditch the melodic, or in his words "feminine" sounds that Castlevania has been known for so and it was their idea to drop the Castlevania 1 remake concept in favor of the reboot, so who knows how many of Mercurysteams design choices were actually Konami's meddiling at hand.

Looking at that concept trailer, Mercurysteam could have easily made a Castlevania game and have it look and feel like a Castlevania game but Konami just didn't want that.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 14, 2011, 12:08:53 PM
They also wanted it to be an IP at one point, so they made them also try and stray from the castlevania atmosphere a bit. I mean if its basically a castlevania game but it isnt named castlevania, people would be like "Wtf why isnt this a castlevania game its made by konami"
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Inccubus on August 14, 2011, 12:14:34 PM
Kinda like what Maximo is to GnG? I think that would have been a better rout anyway. Capcom tried it and when it wasn't as successful as GNG, they just went back to GnG like nothing had ever happened.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Successor The Cruel on August 14, 2011, 12:59:33 PM
I'm not going to pretend I know who's behind what, nor am I going to try to figure it out. All I know is this isn't very promising news to me, because chances are it's going to mean a continuation of the direction that was taken with Lords of Shadow, and one time was definitely more than enough for me D:
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kale on August 14, 2011, 02:10:04 PM
For real, Mercurysteam may have made the game but the suits at Konami are the one's who really pulling the strings during development. Let not forget that Konami told Araujo to make the music sound like a movie and ditch the melodic, or in his words "feminine" sounds that Castlevania has been known for so and it was their idea to drop the Castlevania 1 remake concept in favor of the reboot, so who knows how many of Mercurysteams design choices were actually Konami's meddiling at hand.

Looking at that concept trailer, Mercurysteam could have easily made a Castlevania game and have it look and feel like a Castlevania game but Konami just didn't want that.

I'd agree if they didn't lie about QTEs, which they did. So they can go to hell! HELL! I TELL YOU!

As for the generalizing sotn or whatnot, SOTN did do it best so far imo, with the exception of difficulty. So it's not a bad idea to do just that. But LoS really was not as good as they were hyping up to be. The attempts to copy other games really killed it... and badly. I enjoyed it but I can't replay it like I can a cv game.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 14, 2011, 02:16:55 PM
Quote
The attempts to copy other games really killed it... and badly. I enjoyed it but I can't replay it like I can a cv game.

the los fanbois are tired of reading stuff like this, kale-chan
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Munchy on August 14, 2011, 02:39:04 PM
I have a good reason to.
Because most of the time, when people say what they want in new CV game it's usually "SOTN in 3D with Alucard".

I have to say, as much as parts of LoS irked me, it was cool to at least gave a Belmont with a whip a shot once more. It kinda sucked that they immediately killed off all the cool NPCs, but I'm sort of growing to appreciate bits of the story.

MercurySteam does have talent, and as long as they iron out a lot of the kinks and give something more for fans of the original series to be excited about, the sequel could be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 14, 2011, 02:42:20 PM
Let not forget that Konami told Araujo to make the music sound like a movie and ditch the melodic, or in his words "feminine" sounds that Castlevania has been known for

It's really funny that Konami wanted to change the musical style for LoS. The music was ALWAYS the one part of the Castlevania franchise that absolutely NO ONE has ever complained about. It was pretty much flawless in 95% of the games. It's so stupid it's just... unheard of!

EDIT: Hey Crisis, nice signature. Lulz.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Inccubus on August 14, 2011, 07:13:07 PM
Agreed, there was no reason to make LoS have a generic Hollywood soundtrack. There's nothing wrong or any less epic about the music in Judgement, for example. And that says a lot because pretty much everything else in that game sucked IMO.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Rugal on August 14, 2011, 08:25:28 PM
It's really funny that Konami wanted to change the musical style for LoS. The music was ALWAYS the one part of the Castlevania franchise that absolutely NO ONE has ever complained about. It was pretty much flawless in 95% of the games. It's so stupid it's just... unheard of!


Thank you.

No really.. Thank you.

I think we should all spam Cox's Twitter account until he realizes this.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 14, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
At least the 3 or so tracks the game had were pretty nice. Waterfalls of Agharta being my favorite track. I like it best when it plays in the clockwork tower.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 14, 2011, 10:59:48 PM
Agreed, there was no reason to make LoS have a generic Hollywood soundtrack. There's nothing wrong or any less epic about the music in Judgement, for example. And that says a lot because pretty much everything else in that game sucked IMO.
Ok, I'm not disagreeing with the point you're making here, but it really does irk me when you people continuously refer to a classical musical score as "generic Hollywood" fare.  Seriously...WTF does Hollywood have to do with orchestral music???  Some of you people have been around the internet too long.  Everything that isn't a trippy, jazzy, or quirky Japanese composed piece is "generic Hollywood garbage"? :-\ Help me out here...

Look, I love traditional CV style music as much as any of the rest of you, but I fail to see what Hollywood had to do with LoS' style of musical score.  Last time I checked, orchestral musical pieces had been around way before the first motion picture ever got filmed.

/rant  8)
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 15, 2011, 12:07:32 AM
Quote
The attempts to copy other games really killed it...
Well, copying always was essential part of the series since SOTN. Be it copying of the other games or just copying itself over and over.  :)

Quote
SOTN did do it best so far imo
It flame was killed by multiple copies that ranged from OK games to bad and silly ones. If SOTN was the only game in the series with full flehed "metroidvania" style, then it would be far more greater. As of now it's more "root of the sorrow" for the franchise and fandom. 
And SOTN have it's fair share of faults beside the difficulty.

Quote
The music was ALWAYS the one part of the Castlevania franchise that absolutely NO ONE has ever complained about.
I remember I've heard not so many good things about HOD soundtrack. But it was more the matter of arrangement, rather than bad compositions themselves. Thougn it's hard to say for sure.

Quote
There's nothing wrong or any less epic about the music in Judgement, for example.
Oh boy... :'(
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: uzo on August 15, 2011, 06:38:06 AM
Ok, I'm not disagreeing with the point you're making here, but it really does irk me when you people continuously refer to a classical musical score as "generic Hollywood" fare.  Seriously...WTF does Hollywood have to do with orchestral music???  Some of you people have been around the internet too long.  Everything that isn't a trippy, jazzy, or quirky Japanese composed piece is "generic Hollywood garbage"? :-\ Help me out here...

Look, I love traditional CV style music as much as any of the rest of you, but I fail to see what Hollywood had to do with LoS' style of musical score.  Last time I checked, orchestral musical pieces had been around way before the first motion picture ever got filmed.

/rant  8)

The difference between Hollywood and 'other orchestra' is the way it's written for the scenes and melds into the experience.

The problem is that LoS's soundtrack doesn't fit together with the gameplay in the way a game typically does. It tries to emulate movie style music flow, without the accompanying properly linked on screen visuals, because the visuals are controlled by the player.

LoS's soundtrack is written in a way that would work best as music closely knit with on screen visuals in a non interactive format. It tries to capture the Lord of the Rings feel in a different media without changing the flow to match the new media.

The tracks contain too many emotions in one for the most part. In movies this is exactly what you want, as emotions, reactions, scenes change in a scripted manner as the scene progresses. You want to have the soundtrack follow the visuals every second, changing as things happen. In a game, a track needs to help craft the overall mood of the area it is played in at all times. LoS failed to do this for most tracks, and that is why it falls short. You have instances in a stage where it is very soft, calm, and in some cases so soft you can't even hear it, while on screen you're jumping and escaping a collapsing platform and whip swinging to safety. Then later in the stage you're slowly shimmying along some wall segment. Slow and boring in the moment, but the music is playing this epic booming section. Again, a complete mismatch.

This idea is not impossible to obtain in a game though, and it has been done many times. Even as far back as Super Mario World on the SNES. Yes, an SNES game beat out a PS3 game at it's own musical mechanics.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: shelverton. on August 15, 2011, 02:09:08 PM

I remember I've heard not so many good things about HOD soundtrack. But it was more the matter of arrangement, rather than bad compositions themselves. Thougn it's hard to say for sure.


Yeah, hence the "95% of the games have great music". In my opinion, HoD had a great soundtrack too. The instrumentation is questionable - even grating sometimes - but there are some truly good tunes in there. Different but good.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 15, 2011, 04:06:27 PM
The difference between Hollywood and 'other orchestra' is the way it's written for the scenes and melds into the experience.

The problem is that LoS's soundtrack doesn't fit together with the gameplay in the way a game typically does. It tries to emulate movie style music flow, without the accompanying properly linked on screen visuals, because the visuals are controlled by the player.

LoS's soundtrack is written in a way that would work best as music closely knit with on screen visuals in a non interactive format. It tries to capture the Lord of the Rings feel in a different media without changing the flow to match the new media.

The tracks contain too many emotions in one for the most part. In movies this is exactly what you want, as emotions, reactions, scenes change in a scripted manner as the scene progresses. You want to have the soundtrack follow the visuals every second, changing as things happen. In a game, a track needs to help craft the overall mood of the area it is played in at all times. LoS failed to do this for most tracks, and that is why it falls short. You have instances in a stage where it is very soft, calm, and in some cases so soft you can't even hear it, while on screen you're jumping and escaping a collapsing platform and whip swinging to safety. Then later in the stage you're slowly shimmying along some wall segment. Slow and boring in the moment, but the music is playing this epic booming section. Again, a complete mismatch.

This idea is not impossible to obtain in a game though, and it has been done many times. Even as far back as Super Mario World on the SNES. Yes, an SNES game beat out a PS3 game at it's own musical mechanics.

Thing is, no CV score prior to LoS has ever done this either.  CV tracks have always maintained a life and presence of their own...completely independent of the action or mood onscreen.  They have no marriage to any one game or scene within the series outside of that which our own nostalgia has created.

I still disagree with calling orchestral style compostion a "Hollywood" convention.  Such arrangements have existed long before Hollywood, and are enjoyed in many mediums outside of the motion picture industry.  The fact that a piece is composed to flow with something onscreen doesn't change anything IMO.  You can just as easily turn that onscreen imagery off and still enjoy that music.

Again, I think this mudslinging at LoS' score is purely the result of it NOT being what some of you wanted.  That, in itself, does not qualify it as a bad score.  Most modern action/adventure games' musical arrangements fail to standout in anyway whatsoever.  So much, in fact, that I often can scarcely recall any of the tracks in my head after playing them.  At least LoS had a number of tracks that resonated with me well after the experience was over...which is more than I can say for the majority of games in this genre that I've played lately. 

Yea, I know...it's not CASTLEVANIA music.  I get it.  I'm with ya...I wanted more traditional tracks too.  But I can't see where what we got was in anyway sub-par.  It just wasn't what was expected.  Disappointment shouldn't be a component of objective criticism. If you dislike it, dislike it on its own merits...not because it isn't a Yamane composition.

Agree to disagree I guess.


Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Munchy on August 15, 2011, 05:15:34 PM
I think LoS2 would benefit hugely from having stage specific themes rather than just sets of three or so tracks that loop everywhere. That alone would make it much more bearable.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Neobelmont on August 16, 2011, 06:47:18 PM
It is possible that the next game will be accepted by all  http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-15-castlevania-devs-next-game-will-be-better (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-15-castlevania-devs-next-game-will-be-better) and http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36576/GDC_Europe_Culture_More_Important_Than_Skills__Castlevania_LoS_Alvarez.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36576/GDC_Europe_Culture_More_Important_Than_Skills__Castlevania_LoS_Alvarez.php) (this just an extra)
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 16, 2011, 07:00:41 PM
It is possible that the next game will be accepted by all  http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-15-castlevania-devs-next-game-will-be-better (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-15-castlevania-devs-next-game-will-be-better) and http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36576/GDC_Europe_Culture_More_Important_Than_Skills__Castlevania_LoS_Alvarez.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/36576/GDC_Europe_Culture_More_Important_Than_Skills__Castlevania_LoS_Alvarez.php) (this just an extra)

Wow, Alvarez sure said alot in that second article...without really saying shit.  I'm guessing it was a translation issue, but I can hardly discern what he was even trying to say.  Is he telling us that Konami corporate kept their hands completely out of the process for LoS?  Is he saying that we have no one else to blame for its short comings but himself and the team?  Well then, I'd chalk up this article as a check in the negative column as far as my thoughts regarding why we didn't see more classic CV in LoS.  Maybe all the more hair-brained ideas we saw in that game WERE purely the work of the guys at MS...most likely trying to make a name for themselves by trying to "out-do" the classic franchise. 
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 17, 2011, 12:01:58 AM
why LoS didn't feel like a castlevania game; Kojima Productions
Kojima Productions = Trying to borderline movies and games
If you want to make a damn movie Make a movie, if you wanna make a game, MAKE A FUCKING GAME!
I've had it with video games trying to be movies, despite the game being good or not, its the cutscenes you'll remember, not the game.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Neobelmont on August 17, 2011, 12:52:27 AM
why LoS didn't feel like a castlevania game; Kojima Productions
Kojima Productions = Trying to borderline movies and games
If you want to make a damn movie Make a movie, if you wanna make a game, MAKE A FUCKING GAME!
I've had it with video games trying to be movies, despite the game being good or not, its the cutscenes you'll remember, not the game.

Odd I wonder if subconsciously I feel like that with all the graphics and wow factor of today I still find the nes,snes,n64, and even PS1 games to be just so much fun. Nothing too deep story wise just plain fun. Maybe that is why I have been playing my Fc twin lately and to an extent blazblue.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kale on August 17, 2011, 01:04:51 AM
I don't mind it seeming like movies, because that usually makes it more "epic" and sometimes with better story integration.

Look at Uncharted, the game was basically a kick ass interactive movie. Albeit, it had QTE which sucks... but because the rest of the game was so awesome I barely noticed it.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Neobelmont on August 17, 2011, 01:31:24 AM
I don't mind it seeming like movies, because that usually makes it more "epic" and sometimes with better story integration.

Look at Uncharted, the game was basically a kick ass interactive movie. Albeit, it had QTE which sucks... but because the rest of the game was so awesome I barely noticed it.

I have never played Uncharted because I do not have a PS3 but maybe it is just how well it flows if the game trys too hard then it can fall flat.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 17, 2011, 01:37:04 AM
Uncharted is awesome, but its awesome because it relies on the characters and the witty dialogue.
Its not trying to be Epic, its telling a damn good story as well as deliver some fun game-play.

Most of the other games which have a lone hero mostly try to be Epic, and when most of the dialogue pretty much ends in death threats before a battle the movie feel just doesn't work.
Castlevania could only work the movie feel if it were a game with more than one main character and interaction outside of cutscenes.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Kale on August 17, 2011, 11:44:21 AM
That's how most movies that suceed are... epic. Don't bring up titanic, that sack of shit. It succeeded but only because idiotic girls that watch it 7 times a week.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 17, 2011, 02:12:20 PM
Quote
If you want to make a damn movie Make a movie, if you wanna make a game, MAKE A FUCKING GAME!
It's worked for MGS series and to the LOI to some extent. So it's not that bad idea after all. Games could and should be different.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Neobelmont on August 17, 2011, 09:43:24 PM
It's worked for MGS series and to the LOI to some extent. So it's not that bad idea after all. Games could and should be different.

True I love me some MGS and ZOE but sometimes the cutscenes sort of bore me so yea it is not a bad idea heck not at all it's just sometimes I just need something quick  into my system get my cravings done with not wait so long for a cutscene to end then just five to ten minutes of gameplay then back to fifteen minutes of cutscenes yes you can skip them, but then it just does not feel right. Right if all games were the same then it would be stale and 'interactives movies' are good it's just sometimes it's not my cup of tea at the moment.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Tanatra on August 18, 2011, 08:06:13 PM
Is he telling us that Konami corporate kept their hands completely out of the process for LoS?  Is he saying that we have no one else to blame for its short comings but himself and the team? 

Doubtful. Konami wouldn't have assigned Hideo Kojima to the project otherwise. All Alvarez really said on that subject was "Konami gave us the freedom to shine," which isn't very telling. Besides, do you really expect him to say something negative about the people who write his paychecks?
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 18, 2011, 09:03:55 PM
Doubtful. Konami wouldn't have assigned Hideo Kojima to the project otherwise. All Alvarez really said on that subject was "Konami gave us the freedom to shine," which isn't very telling. Besides, do you really expect him to say something negative about the people who write his paychecks?
Yea, that's my suspicion as well.  The whole interview seemed to be the precursor to falling on the sword if LoS2 doesn't come of with the public very well.  As I said...for talking so much he really didn't say shit. 

At this point I'd rather not hear about the project anymore until they're ready to start unleashing the first round of trailers.  History has taught me that listening to developers talk about pending projects is completely useless unless the game is less than a month from release.  Too much changes during the life cycle of a game's development.  I recently uncovered an old issue of EGM that featured a preview article for "Conker's Quest"...which was a sticky sweet children's game at that point.  What did it turn into by the end of the project?  Conker's Bad Fur Day.  I rest my case. ;D
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 18, 2011, 09:49:41 PM
Wasnt Koijima's involvement his own thing? i was under the impression that it wasnt actually konami that ASSIGNED him to the project.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: uzo on August 18, 2011, 09:56:00 PM
He took a liking to the project and gave them tips and pointers. He also allowed MS to get help from KP for technical issues too.

That's all I remember hearing.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 18, 2011, 10:16:02 PM
such as the infamous advice on Gabriel's face.

Funnily enough, if the "Simon" dev test that was recently posted was what his face looked like before Koijima stepped in, then it really doesnt look all that different. Only difference is it now looks slightly more like Robert Carlyle's face.

Im still wondering why Zobek looks like Sean Connery. And yet, the Brotherhood portrait of his actually DOES looks a bit more like Patrick Stewart.

Im going to guess they originally wanted Connery for the part but couldnt get him for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Reinhart77 on August 19, 2011, 06:57:02 PM
sounds like a good theory to me.  it does make it feel a little off.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 19, 2011, 10:06:57 PM
Im still wondering why Zobek looks like Sean Connery. And yet, the Brotherhood portrait of his actually DOES looks a bit more like Patrick Stewart.

Im going to guess they originally wanted Connery for the part but couldnt get him for whatever reason.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
(Heeeeeerrre we are born to be kings....)
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: BMC_War Machine on August 20, 2011, 07:38:37 AM
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
(Heeeeeerrre we are born to be kings....)
Hahaha, "No one can be my EQAL"!! lol good stuff, great films
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Profbeanburrito on August 20, 2011, 11:02:40 AM

Im still wondering why Zobek looks like Sean Connery

Cause characters that look like Sean Connery are usually awesome, like Big Boss in Metal gear 2 and Col. Gentleman from the Venture Bros.!
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Renonsgoods on August 22, 2011, 03:56:22 PM
How awesome would it have been for Death's human alter ego to be named Ramirez? ;D
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Purple Eyes on August 27, 2011, 08:49:42 PM
I'm hoping at least one of them is Castlevania  :P I'm interested to whether it'd be a sidescroller or not if it's for the 3ds.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Ahasverus on August 28, 2011, 09:10:52 AM
http://www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/troy-baker-states-that-he%E2%80%99s-worked-on-a-castlevania-game-with-konami/ (http://www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/troy-baker-states-that-he%E2%80%99s-worked-on-a-castlevania-game-with-konami/)
Let's try to act surprised ok? I smell a VGA announcement.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Chernabogue on August 28, 2011, 09:58:39 AM
So, is Konami ready to announce a finished game for the 25th Anniversary? Their silence kills me...
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 28, 2011, 10:46:25 AM
Nice, he is probably talking about a game that is currently in the works. Hopefully he is not talking about a Lords sequel. I think not, because all the voice actors from that game were British I think, so it would be pretty weird if they would cast an American for the sequel. Though that is just wishful thinking on my part.     
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: uzo on August 28, 2011, 10:48:36 AM
Well now. THAT is a very interesting tidbit. It isn't completely out fot he question that it is a cancelled game, but who knows.

Megaman Legends 3 had a full voice cast lined up, and a voiced prototype demo, but was inevitably cancelled.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: crisis on August 28, 2011, 11:27:15 AM
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,3997.0.html (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,3997.0.html)
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on August 28, 2011, 11:34:30 AM
It could be possible that it was for the American pitch for their CV game. Remember, IGA's team, Cox's team, and the ever enigmatic American team all pitched their videos for a new CV game. If the Alucardvania was IGA's, and the Simon of Shadows was Cox's, we still know nothing about the American pitch video.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 28, 2011, 11:38:58 AM
Does Konami already hire voice actors when the game they are working on is just a pitch? Seems like a waste of money to me.  :-\ 
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on August 28, 2011, 11:50:37 AM
It could be possible that it was for the American pitch for their CV game. Remember, IGA's team, Cox's team, and the ever enigmatic American team all pitched their videos for a new CV game. If the Alucardvania was IGA's, and the Simon of Shadows was Cox's, we still know nothing about the American pitch video.

I actually would love to see what CV game the American team pitched.

As you have already said, we have seen the Japan team's pitch (Alucardvania) and we of course know about the UK team's pitch (LOS) but we have never seen nor heard about what type of game the American team had planned.

Makes me really curious.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Ahasverus on August 28, 2011, 12:51:09 PM
It's not that I'm really intrigued by the American pitch, Konami america doesn't have the best track record, at all.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: K.G. Morder on August 29, 2011, 12:50:10 AM
Isnt Mercury Steam Spanish?
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Successor The Cruel on August 29, 2011, 01:06:09 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Ahasverus on August 29, 2011, 09:46:22 PM
Quote
Update: Troy got back to us and let us know that his comments were regarding a cancelled game; not one currently in development. Oops!
Hehehehe :broken heart:
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 30, 2011, 01:52:12 AM
Lol, thanks for the tease.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: KaZudra on August 30, 2011, 02:11:04 AM
lol at Topic name Mercury Steam
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Nagumo on August 30, 2011, 02:47:26 AM
IGNORE
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Sumac on August 30, 2011, 04:16:36 PM
Damn. It reminds me about some sort or rumor / news ping pong.
Title: Re: Mercury steam is working on TWO unannounced games....
Post by: Munchy on August 30, 2011, 05:37:15 PM
One of these should be a side scrolling Castlevania.