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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: KaZudra on November 18, 2011, 02:12:46 AM

Title: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 18, 2011, 02:12:46 AM
in LoI timeline Dracula was the initial cause of Leon CURSING his bloodline to hunt the creatures of the night as well as attempt to vanquish the immortal Dracula.
All the Belmonts are of Blood relation and stray into Reinhardt and the Morris Families.

Now, in LoS Timeline, Dracula is Belmont, no longer being used as a clan surname but as a title.

THEORY TIME!
Dracula now living a self-hating existance wants to share his despair amonst the other Creatures of the night. He Encounters a young man named (I'm going with Leon) Leon and teaches all the skills needed and passes the Title Belmont and the Vampire Killer Combat Cross to him.

Generations Pass as Each Belmont Passes his experience and Fabled weapon to the next successor to successor in a Batman/Assassin's Creed sort of fashion.

Possible that Dracula searches a Successor worthy of killing him to allow him to rest 100 years, but puts up a fight to ensure the Belmont to be able to defeat even the strongest Dark Lord!



This can also go into Fan Stuff because this comes from a personal Classic-LoS adaption Story-or-Comic.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: C Belmont on November 18, 2011, 02:47:51 AM
Your theory already has glaring flaws
At the end of Resurrection not only did Gabriel shatter the combat cross with his bare hands but the only thing he looked like sharing was malice. I wonder just how many people who claim to accept LOS are still holding out for a alternate line of Belmonts.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Phil Belmont on November 18, 2011, 03:05:42 AM
Maybe Gabriel is not a Belmont at all.... Since he was adopted and they say that he could be a Cronquvist  ;)
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Arma on November 18, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
Now, in LoS Timeline, Dracula is Belmont, no longer being used as a clan surname but as a title.

Didn't know that since I haven't played that game. I must say it sounds like a novelistic plot twist. Lords of Shadow is getting a sequel isn't it? Hope they throw some light on the plot with the new game. I don't really like the idea of a suicidal villain and a clan that is ultimately bitting the hand the feeds them so I hope they don't go that way.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Kingshango on November 18, 2011, 06:43:27 AM
I've always had a theory about the Belmont clan ever since I finished the game but it sounded kinda stupid so I never said anything but since this is theory time I might as well say it:

What if Brotherhood of light renamed itself "The Belmont clan" in rememberance of Gabriel, who had presumably died after the curse was lifted? Remember, after Gabriel defeated Satan he went directly back to the castle to help Laura kill the Forgotton One instead of returing to the brotherhood. So the brotherhood renames themselves as "The Belmont clan" in honor of their fallen comrade and every member takes on the surname "Belmont" in his memory as the savior of humanity, little do they know that the savior has become the destroyer.

I know it sounds silly but then again so did the main plot so I can see Mercurysteam going this route.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: X on November 18, 2011, 10:51:15 AM
Quote
What if Brotherhood of light renamed itself "The Belmont clan" in rememberance of Gabriel, who had presumably died after the curse was lifted? Remember, after Gabriel defeated Satan he went directly back to the castle to help Laura kill the Forgotton One instead of returing to the brotherhood. So the brotherhood renames themselves as "The Belmont clan" in honor of their fallen comrade and every member takes on the surname "Belmont" in his memory as the savior of humanity, little do they know that the savior has become the destroyer.

I know it sounds silly but then again so did the main plot so I can see Mercurysteam going this route.

This doesn't sound silly at all. In fact it's very plausible. Interesting theory Kingshango.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Neobelmont on November 18, 2011, 11:20:19 AM
Okay I feel that this thinking of belmont title is much.. For all we know Gabriel and Marie had a child that being takecare of by a nanny from the brotherhood or something (they brought in Gabriel as a kid so I see this as very possible).let's say Leon in this case he finds out that his father (Gabriel) has become evi. Leonl use his girlfriend Sara in this case to power up the new better improved combat cross(vampire killer) since Gabriel made the combat cross look like nothing (really the combat cross is pathetic he crushed it so easy). Then after that his son Leon would give his speech about how his mom would never want his dad to do this and that and become evil and going against God and announce that he and his lineage would hunt down Drac for the rest of his days. I can see this happening that belmont being a title but this is just one view on it.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 18, 2011, 12:07:12 PM
Your theory already has glaring flaws
At the end of Resurrection not only did Gabriel shatter the combat cross with his bear hands but the only thing he looked like sharing was malice. I wonder just how many people who claim to accept LOS are still holding out for a alternate line of Belmonts.
Quote
Gabriel shatter the combat cross with his bear hands

Quote
with his bear hands

Quote
bear hands
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: C Belmont on November 18, 2011, 04:04:56 PM
So I'm not a terribly great speller,what's that got to do with LOS exactly?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on November 18, 2011, 08:06:07 PM
Okay I feel that this thinking of belmont title is much.. For all we know Gabriel and Marie had a child that being takecare of by a nanny from the brotherhood or something (they brought in Gabriel as a kid so I see this as very possible).let's say Leon in this case he finds out that his father (Gabriel) has become evi. Leonl use his girlfriend Sara in this case to power up the new better improved combat cross(vampire killer) since Gabriel made the combat cross look like nothing (really the combat cross is pathetic he crushed it so easy). Then after that his son Leon would give his speech about how his mom would never want his dad to do this and that and become evil and going against God and announce that he and his lineage would hunt down Drac for the rest of his days. I can see this happening that belmont being a title but this is just one view on it.

So essentially, "Leon Belmont" becomes the Alcuard for this timeline.  This is an ok idea, but I like Kingshargo's theory better.

I've always had a theory about the Belmont clan ever since I finished the game but it sounded kinda stupid so I never said anything but since this is theory time I might as well say it:

What if Brotherhood of light renamed itself "The Belmont clan" in rememberance of Gabriel, who had presumably died after the curse was lifted? Remember, after Gabriel defeated Satan he went directly back to the castle to help Laura kill the Forgotton One instead of returing to the brotherhood. So the brotherhood renames themselves as "The Belmont clan" in honor of their fallen comrade and every member takes on the surname "Belmont" in his memory as the savior of humanity, little do they know that the savior has become the destroyer.

I know it sounds silly but then again so did the main plot so I can see Mercurysteam going this route.

I could see them going this route too.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Donvermicelli on November 18, 2011, 08:43:22 PM
Hmm both sound interesting but I wonder if they can come up with a plot that is NOT predictable and not batshit retarded for the sequel.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 18, 2011, 10:08:06 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Trying to Reinstall the Belmont Clan is both stupid and overly predictable?
Reboot story, what next? do the same shit for the next 20 years.

Belmont Being a title would make more sense and has a better chance for adding both new and classic characters.

Your theory already has glaring flaws
At the end of Resurrection not only did Gabriel shatter the combat cross with his bare hands but the only thing he looked like sharing was malice. I wonder just how many people who claim to accept LOS are still holding out for a alternate line of Belmonts.

Your point has one glaring flaw too...
Who Said Gabriel had the ONLY Combat Cross?

Vampire Killer is just a Fully Upgraded combat cross with the stake attachment, Hell there HAS to be more Combat Crosses or else the upgrades wouldn't exist.

As for Dracula being good or whatever, I base this on the end of LoS where Gabe is revealed to be Dracula and both not very thrilled about it either.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: JR on November 18, 2011, 10:11:12 PM
I've always had a theory about the Belmont clan ever since I finished the game but it sounded kinda stupid so I never said anything but since this is theory time I might as well say it:

What if Brotherhood of light renamed itself "The Belmont clan" in rememberance of Gabriel, who had presumably died after the curse was lifted? Remember, after Gabriel defeated Satan he went directly back to the castle to help Laura kill the Forgotton One instead of returing to the brotherhood. So the brotherhood renames themselves as "The Belmont clan" in honor of their fallen comrade and every member takes on the surname "Belmont" in his memory as the savior of humanity, little do they know that the savior has become the destroyer.

I know it sounds silly but then again so did the main plot so I can see Mercurysteam going this route.

I don't think that sounds like a bad idea at all. That's a pretty good concept for the LoS storyline.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 18, 2011, 10:31:25 PM
So I'm not a terribly great speller,what's that got to do with LOS exactly?

You have no sense of humor.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Phil Belmont on November 19, 2011, 02:09:26 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Trying to Reinstall the Belmont Clan is both stupid and overly predictable?
Reboot story, what next? do the same shit for the next 20 years.

Belmont Being a title would make more sense and has a better chance for adding both new and classic characters.

Your point has one glaring flaw too...
Who Said Gabriel had the ONLY Combat Cross?

Vampire Killer is just a Fully Upgraded combat cross with the stake attachment, Hell there HAS to be more Combat Crosses or else the upgrades wouldn't exist.

As for Dracula being good or whatever, I base this on the end of LoS where Gabe is revealed to be Dracula and both not very thrilled about it either.

In Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, The New Hero (a Belmont) Could Collect all Parts of the Combat Cross to Destroy Dracula. :D
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Donvermicelli on November 19, 2011, 04:09:34 AM
Are you suggesting they do the same as before only slightly different?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 19, 2011, 12:21:38 PM
I fail to see how. Gabriel left it's remains in that place where he fought Forgotten one.

Only real option is for Gandolfi to finally make his appearance and create a new whip.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 19, 2011, 02:24:17 PM
I fail to see how. Gabriel left it's remains in that place where he fought Forgotten one.

Only real option is for Gandolfi to finally make his appearance and create a new whip.

*Slaps forehead*

This isn't LoI where Only 1 whip was ever made, even when you play through LoS you get parts of the Combat cross from fallen members who had combat crosses too.

I garantee there are at least 10 more Combat Crosses or more given the undefined number of members remaining in the Brotherhood.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 19, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
It was said in game I believe, that there was only ever 1 Combat Cross. Gabe was the only one to actually attempt to use it. He made OTHER weapons for the Brotherhood, but the Cross was a singular weapon.

Many of Gandolfi's upgrade designs were rejected by the Brotherhood for being too cruel, (such as the spiked chain) But he made them anyway, and hid them within Brotherhood Mausoleums. I recall that Gabriel was pretty much prophesied as a warrior who would kill the lords. So he hid them in hopes the prophesied warrior would find them and use them.

Besides, it cheapens the significance and worth of the Combat Cross if its "Just another chain whip" of a "series of chain whips".

Understand that Special and uniquely crafted items like the Combat Cross are usually 1 time items. irreplaceable works of art.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 19, 2011, 04:00:53 PM
It was said in game I believe, that there was only ever 1 Combat Cross. Gabe was the only one to actually attempt to use it. He made OTHER weapons for the Brotherhood, but the Cross was a singular weapon.

Many of Gandolfi's upgrade designs were rejected by the Brotherhood for being too cruel, (such as the spiked chain) But he made them anyway, and hid them within Brotherhood Mausoleums. I recall that Gabriel was pretty much prophesied as a warrior who would kill the lords. So he hid them in hopes the prophesied warrior would find them and use them.

Besides, it cheapens the significance and worth of the Combat Cross if its "Just another chain whip" of a "series of chain whips".

Understand that Special and uniquely crafted items like the Combat Cross are usually 1 time items. irreplaceable works of art.

In that case you're right, Rinaldo needs to get off his ass and make another combat cross, or even combat cross 2.0 with Grapple Gun functions.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Kingshango on November 19, 2011, 04:34:01 PM
Maybe Rinaldo made one more weapon after he made the Combat Cross, or was that the last known weapon he had made?

Hopefully he made another whip, not a Combat Cross but a regular whip(or a morning star) as his final weapon.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: crisis on November 19, 2011, 04:49:10 PM
lets hope so, Kingshango.. lets hope so...
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: C Belmont on November 19, 2011, 04:49:19 PM
Quote
In that case you're right, Rinaldo needs to get off his ass and make another combat cross, or even combat cross 2.0 with Grapple Gun functions

what for? Dracula could just break that one too
& isn't Rinaldo only responsible for all the modifications to the Combat cross not it's actual creation?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 19, 2011, 05:00:48 PM
The Combat Cross is a Rinaldo Creation.

Come on. Why would they have a chainw hip weapon, Rinaldo, and NOT make it his creation? That would be dense. its the ONLY reason Rinaldo exists in the Castlevania Mythos. to make a whip. In LoI he made Vampire Killer. in LoS, he made the Combat Cross. And will possibly make another whip the next game. *Possibly*
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: crisis on November 19, 2011, 05:10:21 PM
Quote
That would be dense.

That would not also make any sense. What if the Poltergeist King shows up hm?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: C Belmont on November 19, 2011, 05:10:59 PM
Well the Castlevania wiki seems to indicate that he wasn't responsible for the body, which would probably need to have already been designed to hold some kind of chain since it's retractable, extendable or whatever you call it.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 19, 2011, 05:44:23 PM
First off, the reason that Belmont should be a Title rather than a Clan is simple, Belmont can be for those who CHOOSE to Hunt the Creatures of the night with the Combat cross as opposed to the Original's "You HAVE to do it, it's your duty!"

Combat Cross > Vampire Killer
Combat Cross is an elaborate weapon as opposed to the Vampire Killer's Magic (We don't hgave to explain shit cause it's magic!)
the major Flaw with the vampire killer is two things, How exacly does trapping someone's soul make it more effective against the souless. and two, there has to be some negative consequence of using this weapon, and it's never explained why the Belmonts are entitled to be the Only ones that can use the whip.

Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 19, 2011, 06:21:01 PM
Vampires in Castlevania have souls like any other being. It's how Mathias became Dracula. By taking Walter's vampire soul.

Sarah likewise, was doomed to become a vampire, so her cursed vampire soul was fused with an already powerful alchemic weapon to use against vampires. Basically, fight vampire with vampire. Her vampire soul makes the whip effective against Vampires. Though its not explained how that works.

There are no ill effects on Belmonts.

I imagine it doesnt work for others because the whip's soul is bonded to Belmonts. The ritual that bonded Sarah's soul to the whip involved "A tainted soul" that trusted Leon, and whom Leon could trust. Threfore, that "trust", that connection, passes down the Belmont line.

Not to mention the Belmonts have supernatural power in their blood. It's the reason They were exiled from Wallachia before Castlevania 3's events. Juste even came out a magic wielder.

Others probably dont have that benefit, depending on how far from the Belmont line they are. Reineardt, for example, has no trouble using the whip despite being a Schneider. the Morrises however, cannot use it's full power, and it drains their life force if they do manage to.

Of course, CV 64 was retconned, so...
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 19, 2011, 06:46:04 PM
that's still a very vague reason why a family can use a whip that was soul-bound by a forefather.

and yet again, where are the drawbacks? trapping a poor woman's soul in a whip forever for the ultimate weapon of destroying evil has to have a catch.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: jestercolony on November 19, 2011, 07:05:53 PM
In that case you're right, Rinaldo needs to get off his ass and make another combat cross, or even combat cross 2.0 with Grapple Gun functions.

^- Win. Please make sure to have Quad Plasma bullets. :)

Now keep in mind this is only speculation and observation as a writer, reader and plot analyst -

At the end of Resurrection, Gabriel only destroys the hilt of the weapon in the dimensional prison. In order to get in to these events, he and Laura used the infernal time machine created by the mad scientist. Now to clean up this mess, one of the posters (who's name I had forgotten) had stated one of two outcomes that are speculation and agreeable.

1.With the use of the time machine Gabriel and Laura go back through time. As they are at the prison, the “future” Gabriel is already fighting the Dark Lady. The reason why I state this is that if you read the scrolls, one of the soldiers of the Brotherhood state that the “Lord of Necromancers” some how tampers with the seal that locked away his blood orb (hence why we have to do the portal puzzle.)
2.The second out to this is that it only restores that portion of the prison (which a poster has stated.)


Now about the Combat Cross itself as I was speaking about before – if you read the description of the upgrade itself it will state the following:

“Rinaldo Gandoffi built two different chains for the Combat Cross, but one was never approved by the Brotherhood, for other reasons. The elders thought that the spikes were too cruel for the holy measure of the weapon. However, instead of destroying it, the artisian hid the links in one of the old mausoleum of the Order, believing that one day it might be needed.”

This is just half of the quotation taken from the actual game's description.  Two chains? Let me get this straight, if I had read this correctly: perhaps there is another “Chain” in which we never got or perhaps it is speaking on behalf of the current  chain in which we start with.  One thing is for certain, the whip will be reconstructed because the Hilt was only destroyed – we did not in fact see any remains of the chain itself when the weapon was shattered.

Secondly, if my theory is correct with theory 1 stated above, I assume that the “original” chain is locked away in the dimensional prison, in which it may be so that Gandoffi himself or another “Belmont” (if there is one) will reclaim it and the true Vampire Killer will be (re)born. But what puzzles me more is the "second" chain mentioned in the upgrade's description.

that's still a very vague reason why a family can use a whip that was soul-bound by a forefather.

and yet again, where are the drawbacks? trapping a poor woman's soul in a whip forever for the ultimate weapon of destroying evil has to have a catch.

What took place in LoI's forming of the Vampire Killer was the first law of Alchemy, The Act of equal exchange.  As the post stated above, the whip needed a tainted soul in order to reach its full potential. Then of course we have the "Trust" foundation between Leon and Sara. Basically in a sense - a soul, for a soul. Life for death, death for life...etc...etc. (:

Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 19, 2011, 08:22:25 PM
that's still a very vague reason why a family can use a whip that was soul-bound by a forefather.

and yet again, where are the drawbacks? trapping a poor woman's soul in a whip forever for the ultimate weapon of destroying evil has to have a catch.

She agreed to it. And the whip seems to have a certain degree of sentience, or emotion.

Leon sensed rage from it, and when Chaos was defeated in Aria, Julius felt the whip weaken. Which I would interpret as "relief"

And why would there be drawbacks? She agreed to sacrifice herself.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on November 19, 2011, 08:34:09 PM
I think you are mistaken jestercolony.  Yes, the description of the combat cross did say that there were two chains created for it.  But, Gabriel had both of them.  When the game started, it just had the regular chain with no spikes and then during the quest, Gabriel found the the spiked one.  Also, when Gabriel broke the combat cross, the chain was retracted.  In other words, he completely destroyed it and left the pieces behind in the dimensional rift.  The only way for Rinaldo to make a new combat cross would be to go into the rift and retrieve the pieces or build it from scratch.  No human can survive the rift.  Then again, we don't know what precisely Rinaldo is.  All we know is that he is rumored to still be alive and has lived for centuries.

Maybe the weapon the hero wields in the next game, regardless of if it is a whip or not (it should be, if it is a "Belmont"), will be magical instead of a ordinary weapon soaked in holy water.
She agreed to it. And the whip seems to have a certain degree of sentience, or emotion.

Leon sensed rage from it, and when Chaos was defeated in Aria, Julius felt the whip weaken. Which I would interpret as "relief"

And why would there be drawbacks? She agreed to sacrifice herself.

You make a good point Flame, but keep in mind that this may not be correct.  The whip has the power to destroy vampires and the other "children of the night".  That's it.  Chaos has nothing to do with it.  Let's remember that LoI along with the creation story of the whip came out after AoS.  Also, at that point, it was only the Belmonts (and humanity) against the evil count Dracula.  There was no mention of a despite between Dracula and the Belmonts other than simple good versus evil.  In essence, Dracula is evil and evil needs to be destroyed. In other words, classic good versus evil. Nothing more.

With that in mind, I can't really explain why the whip's power started to weaken.  It's true that Dracula was considered the incarnation of evil in that game.  So, I guess we could say that by Soma defeating Chaos, he severed himself from the Chaos.  The cycle of resurrection following defeat that had persisted with Dracula had been stop, which is he reincarnated.  That fact is that his soul may have still be bound to the Chaos and by defeating Chaos, Soma severed his link with it.  The lack of a being of complete darkness bound to Chaos may have had such an effect on the whip.  It is never truly explained.  I guess this is just another example of IGA's spectacular story writing (sarcasm).

Speaking of IGA's method for how he makes a CV game (gameplay first and then story, which is then shoehorned into a storyline with more plotholes than DBZ), I wouldn't be surprised if he was the real host for Chaos.  With that in mind, I guess that makes him the real Dark Lord.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 19, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Chaos? all that is is the manifestation of dracula's power in the castle allowing him and the castle to be immortal.

Since they are both DEAD Chaos has no relevance.

The Vampire killer itself is a Plothole as its physical properties are constantly changed without reason, hell, it's creation process doesn't make much sense. Use Black Magic to Trap a person's soul into a weapon, It'll SOMEHOW become Holy....


............ Fuck that IGA's Writers are fucking Morons.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Vampire Killer on November 20, 2011, 12:54:49 AM
Just wanted to chime in.

I was sorely disappointed with IGA's idea for the VK's origins. Personally, since the series seems to be somewhat based on a Christian world-view (Belmont's using "holy" powers and whatnot), I felt it would have been much cooler to have the VK assembled from pieces of the whip that scourged Christ before the crucifixion. That whip would have been soaked in Christ's blood, which imo would make it about as powerful a weapon against unholy creatures as you could get.

In my version, the Roman soldier who did the scourging would have been the same soldier who said in one of the gospels immediately after Jesus died "truly, this man was the Son of God" (or something to that effect). Eventually, he would have been one of the first gentile converts to Christianity. The whip (which he kept to remind himself of his violent past), gets handed down through the generations, eventually ending up being owned by the Belmont Family. This whip is then eventually remade into the VK.

As for "why are the "Belmont's so special?", I figure you could have it be a type of blessing/curse. Because of the sin of scourging the Lord, the descendants of that soldier are cursed to "hunt the night" (or something like that), but are also blessed with extra abilities to do so. As for "why can only they use the VK?" think of it as being something like how in the Old Testament, only descendants of the tribe of Levi could actually touch the Ark of the Covenant. Anyone else touching would just simply die.


Anyhoo, I liked the idea of making Belmont either the new name of the Brotherhood, or a name given to a warrior within the Brotherhood who has risen to a certain degree of skill and ability. Kind of the being designated a Green Beret within the Army, or Special Forces in the Airforce.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: crisis on November 20, 2011, 01:16:19 AM
Quote
VK's origins. Personally, since the series seems to be somewhat based on a Christian world-view (Belmont's using "holy" powers and whatnot), I felt it would have been much cooler to have the VK assembled from pieces of the whip that scourged Christ before the crucifixion. That whip would have been soaked in Christ's blood, which imo would make it about as powerful a weapon against unholy creatures as you could get.

In my version, the Roman soldier who did the scourging would have been the same soldier who said in one of the gospels immediately after Jesus died "truly, this man was the Son of God" (or something to that effect). Eventually, he would have been one of the first gentile converts to Christianity. The whip (which he kept to remind himself of his violent past), gets handed down through the generations, eventually ending up being owned by the Belmont Family. This whip is then eventually remade into the VK.

As for "why are the "Belmont's so special?", I figure you could have it be a type of blessing/curse. Because of the sin of scourging the Lord, the descendants of that soldier are cursed to "hunt the night" (or something like that), but are also blessed with extra abilities to do so. As for "why can only they use the VK?" think of it as being something like how in the Old Testament, only descendants of the tribe of Levi could actually touch the Ark of the Covenant. Anyone else touching would just simply die.

WTF
dude seriously?

I had this same idea for years now, literally damn near the same exact idea.
while reading it, my pupils dilated and i may have felt a slight tingle in my pants
Is that what's supposed to happen? Or could have?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Kingshango on November 20, 2011, 01:30:30 AM
If I had the power to retcon, I would use VK's origins of the whip instead of LoI's, seriously that would make a much better origin of the Vampire Killer.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: X on November 20, 2011, 01:35:20 AM
Quote
Use Black Magic to Trap a person's soul into a weapon, It'll SOMEHOW become Holy....

Contrary to LoI's story short-comings, Alchemy isn't black magic which I'm sure you already know.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Vampire Killer on November 20, 2011, 01:38:10 AM
WTF
dude seriously?

I had this same idea for years now, literally damn near the same exact idea.

LOL, I came up with the idea around the same time that LoI released. I think it's what made me so disappointed in IGA's idea. Cv has always had the Belmont's using their holy powers as it's backbone, and then IGA decides to make it about alchemy. WTF? I may be a bit biased in this department being a Christain and all, but come on. Making the main power behind the VK be alchemy would be like Capcom making a prequel Mega-Man game where-in instead of tech, we find out that all this time he's been using magic in his mega-buster.

Honestly, I'm not surprised that someone else had the same idea. Considering the Christian background in Cv, it seems kind of obvious if you think about it.



while reading it, my pupils dilated and i may have felt a slight tingle in my pants
Is that what's supposed to happen?

Are you supposed to get tingly feelings in your pants? Depends on the situation. Hope that tingly feeling wasn't a loss of bladder control from the shock ;)
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 20, 2011, 02:50:23 AM
Contrary to LoI's story short-comings, Alchemy isn't black magic which I'm sure you already know.
Alchemy is more of a Religious form of Chemistry with alot of spiritualism attached.
that Ritual performed in LoI is Magic, since it technically harms the target it's Black Magic.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: X on November 20, 2011, 11:20:29 AM
Quote
Alchemy is more of a Religious form of Chemistry with alot of spiritualism attached.
that Ritual performed in LoI is Magic, since it technically harms the target it's Black Magic.

True enough, though I've never heard of Alchemy 'harming' anyone in reality unless it was abused.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: A-Yty on November 20, 2011, 11:24:23 AM
Chaos? all that is is the manifestation of dracula's power in the castle allowing him and the castle to be immortal.

Since they are both DEAD Chaos has no relevance.

The Vampire killer itself is a Plothole as its physical properties are constantly changed without reason, hell, it's creation process doesn't make much sense. Use Black Magic to Trap a person's soul into a weapon, It'll SOMEHOW become Holy....


............ Fuck that IGA's Writers are fucking Morons.

Has the whip really ever been referred to as "holy" in the original Japanese story?

And I don't think Sara was harmed in the process. She willingly sacrificed herself.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 20, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Alchemy is more of a Religious form of Chemistry with alot of spiritualism attached.
that Ritual performed in LoI is Magic, since it technically harms the target it's Black Magic.

Equivalent exchange. Sarah sacrificed her vampire soul in order to give the whip the ability to harm vampires.

Sounds nothing like black magic. You ever watch Full Metal Alchemist? life and souls are a pretty common (if taboo) subject in alchemy.

I assume its a Holy element because of the Belmont wielding it. THEY are holy elements. As such, they take extra damage from demonic elements.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 20, 2011, 01:48:12 PM
Equivalent exchange. Sarah sacrificed her vampire soul in order to give the whip the ability to harm vampires.

Sounds nothing like black magic. You ever watch Full Metal Alchemist? life and souls are a pretty common (if taboo) subject in alchemy.

I assume its a Holy element because of the Belmont wielding it. THEY are holy elements. As such, they take extra damage from demonic elements.

did you Know Full Metal Alchemist doesn't have a Damn thing to do with Alchemy?

The only things that are Common or Taboo in Alchemy is Transmutation, and Astral Projection, NOT binding souls to objects or anything of that nature.

Equivalent exchange is completely irrelavent to an alchemist's Magnum Opus.

The only ties FMA and Castlevania have with true Alchemy is the fact of mentioning the Philospher's stone.


TRUST ME, I have done TONS of research on this shit a long time ago.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Ahasverus on November 20, 2011, 02:10:48 PM
I still bet on the villager boy saved by Gabriel to reclaim the Belmont surname honoring Wygol's hero.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 20, 2011, 02:45:51 PM
And did you know LoI can make up whatever the hell it wants in regards to Alchemy?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on November 20, 2011, 02:48:39 PM
Chaos? all that is is the manifestation of dracula's power in the castle allowing him and the castle to be immortal.

Since they are both DEAD Chaos has no relevance.

The Vampire killer itself is a Plothole as its physical properties are constantly changed without reason, hell, it's creation process doesn't make much sense. Use Black Magic to Trap a person's soul into a weapon, It'll SOMEHOW become Holy....


............ Fuck that IGA's Writers are fucking Morons.
Actually, Chaos is the manifestation of the darkness and evil in the hearts of people.  Dracula somehow took that in.  Because of this it became one with his powers and because of that, it influences him.  It's also why there is a stream of Chaos existing within the castle.  It's also why Soma nearly turned evil after he defeat Graham in AoS.  If he had completely absorbed it, he would have become the master of the castle.  It's why he went to the Chaotic Realm.  By going there he could fight Chaos and by doing so, cut off so that it no longer can influence him.  It's also why if you lose that battle, Soma becomes ascends to the throne.  Remember, at the end of AoS after you've beaten Chaos, Soma tells Mina that deep within him, Dracula's power sleeps.  It is no longer evil, but it has changed his life forever.  If you don't believe me, play AoS again. 
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 20, 2011, 03:05:37 PM
And did you know LoI can make up whatever the hell it wants in regards to Alchemy?
yeah, but it still doesn't mean it is....
...unless you also belive twighlight actually has vampires...
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: thernz on November 20, 2011, 03:39:39 PM
I still bet on the villager boy saved by Gabriel to reclaim the Belmont surname honoring Wygol's hero.
More likely Zobek killed him off-screen. Because Zobek.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 20, 2011, 04:31:22 PM
It is no longer evil, but it has changed his life forever.  If you don't believe me, play AoS again.

the power within Soma was never evil. It is "Dark" but not evil. That much was said I belive by either Julius or Yoko.

yeah, but it still doesn't mean it is....
...unless you also belive twighlight actually has vampires...
Oh they are vampires. Shitty gay ones, but nonetheless. (sadly)
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: crisis on November 20, 2011, 04:33:23 PM
Edward is NOT gay  >:(
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on November 20, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
Quote
the power within Soma was never evil. It is "Dark" but not evil. That much was said I belive by either Julius or Yoko.

Yes, Yoko did say this, but it was before we knew that Soma was Dracula reincarnated.  At this point, he hadn't awakened yet as Dracula and the influence of the Chaos hadn't begun to flow into him.  Chaos is evil and until the end of AoS, had a connection to Dracula.  It would seem that Dracula's true power (the part that is influenced by Chaos) was sealed in the throne room.  When Soma defeated Graham, it was allowed to flow into it's true master: Soma.  The purpose of the battle with Chaos was to stop the flow Chaos into him and to sever his connection to it permanently. 

And, what Yoko said was true.  At least, in most cases.  Those connected to Dracula through blood and/or magic seem to be the exception.  Then again, I could be trying to see something that isn't there.  The fact is that it is never fully explained and I get the feeling it never will.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 20, 2011, 05:21:33 PM
the power within Soma was never evil. It is "Dark" but not evil. That much was said I belive by either Julius or Yoko.

oh Very true Dark =/= Evil, just as Light =/= Good.
Take the spanish inquisition, they were aligned with Light and Holy, but intentions were clearly Evil.

Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 20, 2011, 05:56:54 PM
Edward is NOT gay  >:(
You are absolutely right. Calling Edward gay would be an insult to gay people.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 20, 2011, 06:30:54 PM
You are absolutely right. Calling Edward gay would be an insult to gay people.

ooo~ Burned!
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: CastleToastM on November 20, 2011, 11:59:16 PM
ooo~ Burned!

Was that pun intentional, cause you're quoting someone with the username 'Flame'.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 21, 2011, 01:04:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intention, but it IS pretty funny.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: KaZudra on November 21, 2011, 01:15:26 AM
uuuuhhh YEAH, I TOTALLY made that up! HIGH FIVE!............anyone?


no pun intended, but that was an awesome pun..... too bad it'll be awhile before those conditions could happen again.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: CastleToastM on November 22, 2011, 12:35:42 AM
no pun intended, but that was an awesome pun.....

For a second there, I though you said "no pun intended, but that was an awesome pun", as if you actually did intend for it, so I had to do a double take and realized that wasn't what you said.

You actually said that you didn't intend for a pun like that to occur, but it was still awesome regardless. The wording is a bit awkward, so I read something else.

Now that I think about it, there's another meaning I can get from that.

You mean no pun intended when you say "an awesome pun", but "an awesome pun" isn't a pun, so it doesn't make as much sense.

But of course, this is all from my own perspective. I might be totally wrong.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: jestercolony on November 22, 2011, 06:05:07 AM
Actually, Chaos is the manifestation of the darkness and evil in the hearts of people.  Dracula somehow took that in.  Because of this it became one with his powers and because of that, it influences him.  It's also why there is a stream of Chaos existing within the castle.  It's also why Soma nearly turned evil after he defeat Graham in AoS.  If he had completely absorbed it, he would have become the master of the castle.  It's why he went to the Chaotic Realm.  By going there he could fight Chaos and by doing so, cut off so that it no longer can influence him.  It's also why if you lose that battle, Soma becomes ascends to the throne.  Remember, at the end of AoS after you've beaten Chaos, Soma tells Mina that deep within him, Dracula's power sleeps.  It is no longer evil, but it has changed his life forever.  If you don't believe me, play AoS again.

Eh... Actually...you're kinda... wrong and correct. ...Ahem... The Castle itself is a "Creature of Chaos." the "darkness and evil" in people's hearts only began after the events of  Dracula's Curse and CoD Dracula had cast a horrible spell that drove man to the brink of insanity, malice and bloodlust which in turn cause chaos, thus feeding the "Demon Castle" thus feeding "Lord Dracula." while he was in his sleeper agent state.

If you pay attention... In OoE we find out that Dracula's power can be separated from him (i.e Dominus; i.e the Power of Dominance.) and absorbed in to glyphs...

If you pay attention in PoR, again we find out that Dracula's power (The Castle itself...) can separated from him (I.e the Chaos.)

....1999 Battle...
...Dracula is removed from both Power of Dominance (his 'soul is removed from the body) and Chaos (i.e the Castle)

...In AoS - ...Chaos beckons it's true master... i.e. Soma.... Which "activates" Dominance... By separating Chaos from Dominance, Somaula is "Free" again.

In DoS - We find out that Chaos was too much for the retard (i.e the last boss) to handle thus turning him into a huge demon, thus turning the "Demon" itself into a flesh entity... Thus Soma kill's it...thus sealing the powers away again... -_-;
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: CastleToastM on November 23, 2011, 01:43:36 PM
Chaos doesn't necessarily exist in DoS.

The flesh demon you speak of is the amalgamation of all the crap Demitrii absorbed. Demitrii tried to gain the power of dominus by sacrificing Ceilia, and all the souls of the monsters he absorbed reacted violently.

Suposedly in AoS, chaos was utterly destroyed.

The power of dominus exists in DoS, not chaos.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: crisis on November 23, 2011, 02:21:26 PM
Quote
Suposedly in AoS, chaos was utterly destroyed.

isn't this an oxymoron? lol
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 23, 2011, 08:57:07 PM

The flesh demon you speak of is the amalgamation of all the crap Demitrii absorbed. Demitrii tried to gain the power of dominus by sacrificing Ceilia, and all the souls of the monsters he absorbed reacted violently.
The Human sacrifice of Celia was to fuck with Alucard's power so he couldnt interfere.

The reason He became Menace, is because he COPIED the Power of Dominance. Soma is the only one truly capable of using it since he is the reincarnation of Dracula, the power is bonded to him. Dimitri tried to use an imitation Power of Dominance gained through his copy ability to absorb the souls of powerful demons and monsters. Since he cannot truly control such an immense power as Soma's, he succumbed to them and they all burst out of him violently into one big amalgamation.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: CastleToastM on November 24, 2011, 01:38:03 AM
The Human sacrifice of Celia was to fuck with Alucard's power so he couldnt interfere.

The reason He became Menace, is because he COPIED the Power of Dominance. Soma is the only one truly capable of using it since he is the reincarnation of Dracula, the power is bonded to him. Dimitri tried to use an imitation Power of Dominance gained through his copy ability to absorb the souls of powerful demons and monsters. Since he cannot truly control such an immense power as Soma's, he succumbed to them and they all burst out of him violently into one big amalgamation.

Right. I knew it was something that made the souls react violently.

But still, I don't really think that Chaos exists in DoS, since Dracula's castle is never present. Both Chaos and the castle was sealed into the moon.

Or destroyed, not really sure.
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: Koutei on November 24, 2011, 06:46:31 AM
Dawn of Sorrow spoiler
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 24, 2011, 11:55:22 AM
Yes, but it is different from the chaos present in AoS. In AoS, Soma defeats the flow of chaos that runs through the castle, basically the very soul of the castle, what makes it a creature of chaos. He defeated the Chaotic flow within Dracula's castle.

But since Soma IS Dracula, if his hatred and anger is strong enough, he attracts chaos to himself. Chaotic souls and powers.

To be honest, it would have made so much more sense if Dawn didnt exist...
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on November 24, 2011, 01:00:45 PM
Yes, but it is different from the chaos present in AoS. In AoS, Soma defeats the flow of chaos that runs through the castle, basically the very soul of the castle, what makes it a creature of chaos. He defeated the Chaotic flow within Dracula's castle.

But since Soma IS Dracula, if his hatred and anger is strong enough, he attracts chaos to himself. Chaotic souls and powers.

To be honest, it would have made so much more sense if Dawn didnt exist...
Exactly my point.  Again, this is an example of the why IGA's team sucks with story.  Gameplay is usually great, but the story sucks and that's because they develop gameplay first and then come up with a half-assed story to shoehorn it into the series.  AoS was great, but DoS sucks.  Then again, most direct sequels suck.

As I have said on many occasions, AoS should be the end point on the timeline with Dracula.  A completely new enemy could come along, but it wouldn't be Castlevania with out Dracula.  DoS should not exist as it is (if at all).


Now, I have a question:  How the hell did a thread about theories regarding how the Belmonts will emerge in the LoS timeline become one about Soma?
Title: Re: New Belmont Theory (LoS)
Post by: K.G. Morder on November 24, 2011, 01:08:27 PM
Because Chaos came up.

Chaos is an integral part of Dracula and his castle.