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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: beingthehero on November 29, 2011, 05:16:41 AM

Title: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on November 29, 2011, 05:16:41 AM
It seems a lot of people have a love/hate relationship when it comes to Simon's Chronicles look. Dracula's redesign was universally loved, and I remember way back in 2001 there was a lot of love for Simon's design despite the stripper undertones. Since then, opinions have gotten more stronger and divisive, and many prefer his original X68000 appearance. What do you all think of it?

To be honest, it's actually my favorite design of him. I grew up with CV2 Simon, yet for some reason I think of his Chronicles look as the definitive one in my mind. When I think of Simon Belmont, I think of Chronicles' radical US cover. I can understand the hate, but it's the one I prefer the most.
Then again, I also like the arranged version of Vampire Killer, so maybe I just like things that are actually terrible.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on November 29, 2011, 12:11:32 PM
I kinda like this design, the flowing red hair and "eyeliner makeup" is what turns most people off about it. If I recall correctly IGA said the reason for this was because the game had a "red" color theme so he gave Kojima much freedom with the design. The outfit itself is fine, nothing really weighing him down except for his sword. I might have preferred dark brown or black hair, though. Also, in the artwork, the whip is way too long..

Perhaps Kojima should've gave him a beard? I wonder how Simon would look like with a scruffy beard.. Besides Julius and possibly BR Christopher, he's the only other character I can picture with one. And not like that douchy pretend beard Gabriel has.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: uzo on November 29, 2011, 12:22:19 PM
Considering Simon's previous designs at the time, it was in my opinion the best middle ground they could have come up with. It is still somewhat barbarian like, but with a sort of elegant Kojima twist. I still like it to this day.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: shelverton. on November 29, 2011, 02:05:41 PM

It's my favourite Simon design. I couldn't care less about his hair color, I just think he looks rather awesome. I did hate his Judgment look though. That was simply not Simon.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on November 29, 2011, 02:44:41 PM
Nothing wrong with the red hair. It actually gives him kind of a cool, rebellious aura. It's the boots, the eyeliner look and the almost-too-perfect Kojima face that I don't like.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on November 29, 2011, 03:09:46 PM
The worst look Simon had in years. Alongside his Judgement appearance.
I grew up with classic Simon desigh and this new incarnation was totally outlandish and bizzare.

I could have been OK with, if not crazy combination of red hair and black leather clothes. It made him look like a fashion victim, even more so than Juste, who save for him being Alucard rip-off still ended up more fashionable and decent design. At this point I get used to Kojima's "typical face" for all men, so it was not a big deal.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: shelverton. on November 29, 2011, 03:48:16 PM
I grew up with the classic Simon design too but I still prefer the redesign. Some people automatically suggest that you're a n00b just because you don't worship the 80's Conan look. Not that anyone did that here, but still.

Also, I think more guys should wear eyeliner.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jago on November 29, 2011, 04:31:20 PM
I like the Chronicles design, I just like the CV4 one better.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on November 29, 2011, 04:40:13 PM
Red hair made him more unique. Tell me what other Belmonts have red hair. And as the most popular Belmont, I think he deserves to stand out a bit more. I thought he looked plenty barbaian while still retaining some Kojima class.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 29, 2011, 05:32:23 PM
I'm not fond of a number of things in his design:

1. The overuse of leather in his neck (makes him look like an S&M enthusiast).  I can deal with the Roman-style studded leather skirt, but not the neck buckle things.  The other games that have him in leather have it up to his neck, but never as a leather-with-metal-buckles-turtleneck thing.
2. The furry black boa stuff he's wearing (it would've been better if it were an actual animal skin, like a gray wolf skin or something)
3. The 3-inch heels he's got in his pointy boots. Also, the pointy boots.
4. It's not that it's red hair... it's that it's bright red hair.  Slightly more brown but still red would've been fine, like his Judgment hair color (which is kinda a wine/burgundy color) or auburn.
5. He's wearing tights.  Leather tights.  Studded black leather tights.  That's just too far gone, for me.

Here is what I like about his design:
1. The gloves are well done.  I like seeing him with full gloves (even if they are open at the fingertips, which is kinda not cool) instead of just bracers.
2. It's nice that they kept the "off-center" design on his armor from the older iterations of his costume.
3. The use of red in the armor is really cool.  Kinda gives it a Simon's Quest air.
4. I dig the leather straps on the boots, even if I don't like the black fur, the heels, and the tips.
5. The chains and metal work are done well, as is the sheath for his sword/subweapons.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Neobelmont on November 29, 2011, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jago on November 29, 2011, 04:31:20 PM
I like the Chronicles design, I just like the CV4 one better.


What's funny and awesome at the same time is that you mixed both of them in your sig thingy below.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on November 29, 2011, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: Jago on November 29, 2011, 04:31:20 PM
I just like the CV4 one better.

Ditto.

I wonder what he would look wearing the headgear of (Japanese) SCVIV, the hairs of Chronicles and CV and the armor of SQ. And maybe sporting a beard of suffering.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on November 30, 2011, 12:21:17 AM
Quote
3. The 3-inch heels he's got in his pointy boots. Also, the pointy boots.
All Ayami's Belmonts have heels and pointy boots. Hell, even Soma has Heels and pointy shoes.

Trevor is really the worse offender.

I think only Alucard's boots are somewhat sensible looking. (Maybe Juste's too)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: KaZudra on November 30, 2011, 12:51:47 AM
Hey, He's the only Ayami Kojima Belmont with a Trench or Tail Coat on.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on November 30, 2011, 01:01:36 AM
Julius wears a trench coat. Tail Coat maybe though. He's certainly a more classy Belmont, but then again, he got sucked into adventure on short notice, so he never really got to switch to "work clothes" I guess.

Or he's just that fashionable.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Belmont Stakes on November 30, 2011, 02:22:11 AM
I think I will only take the Metroidsexual...uh metrosexual look over the X68000 look. But for the most part I think that look should have been saved for Isaac.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Munchy on November 30, 2011, 04:20:16 AM
Quote from: uzo on November 29, 2011, 12:22:19 PM
Considering Simon's previous designs at the time, it was in my opinion the best middle ground they could have come up with. It is still somewhat barbarian like, but with a sort of elegant Kojima twist. I still like it to this day.

This. It's also his most distinctive design, as most of his others can be easily confused with pretty much any Belmont ever.

I might also just like it because I've been playing the shit out of Chronicles recently.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: The Silverlord on November 30, 2011, 07:46:56 AM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.gamepro.com%2Farticle_img%2Fgamepro%2F205548-6.jpg&hash=8d36d20f9dfed702873e39383140ad5ade35f8b4)

I don't like the Chronicles design (fashion disaster), but Ayami had a good go at injecting something new into the character. 

The original CV box art still has so much magic about it.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on November 30, 2011, 09:11:14 AM
Jorge pretty much layed out all the bad things about Chronicles Simon that I could think of and also the good things too. However I'd also throw in my two cents about his way too feministic facial features which detract from his true European masculinity. In my mind it just isn't Simon.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: VampirehunterB on November 30, 2011, 10:05:56 AM
easiest way to describe...I like them both just as much in different ways..the old Simon belonged to the 90´s, and the chronicles one is perfect for this CV era.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 30, 2011, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Flame on November 30, 2011, 12:21:17 AM
All Ayami's Belmonts have heels and pointy boots. Hell, even Soma has Heels and pointy shoes.

Trevor is really the worse offender.

I think only Alucard's boots are somewhat sensible looking. (Maybe Juste's too)

I can understand Juste, somewhat.  And I can definitely understand Alucard.
Trevor and Simon?  Not so much.  They didn't even make pointy boots at the time (but I'm ignoring that since Castlevania is quite anachronistic in its choice of outfits).

They just don't fit the character.  I guess I'm still thinking he should still be barbarian-like.  The Ayami Kojima design... it's like it half-asses one thing and goes too far into another.  I can see that she had a tough time merging her vision with the designs of old, as it shows in the way some parts of her design don't fit (in my opinion).

Barbarian Furry Boots ... cancelled by ... fashionable pointy tips.
Ancient Leather armor ... cancelled by ... it has a choker turtleneck top.
Roman-Style Studded Leather Belted Skirt ... cancelled by ... only covers half of his body and the other half shows his studded leather tights (wtf).

I actually dig his facial features, and would probably just superimpose 'em over the X68000 Simon and other old Simon designs like the way Jago did it, haha.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on November 30, 2011, 01:22:42 PM
The thing I do like about his face is that he looks young (versus his rugged face in Akdra X68k). I'm pretty sure he was in his 20's during that time.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on November 30, 2011, 03:16:33 PM
Quote
Red hair made him more unique. Tell me what other Belmonts have red hair. And as the most popular Belmont, I think he deserves to stand out a bit more.
Being unique =/= being good-looking. I could accept this design as "Simon" if it was less unique and more...grey and simple, instead trying to be memorable as a forest fire. It's memorable allright, just not in the good way for me. If anything Trevor's design could be an ideal base for Simon's Kojima design. Rugged, but stylish, somewhat simple, yet with flair of fashionism.

Hm...flair...I think that's the right word. Simon's Kojima design should have been more barbarian, having only flair of her usual distinct "stylishness". Barbarian, but with slight hint of aristocracy and stylishness. Kojima's Simon is just too much about style, like top model or something. And leatherbelt disaster!Simon of Judgement fame is something out of this world completely. Still in general he is somehow ended up less garish, if only because of less bright coloring.

Quote
I like the Chronicles design, I just like the CV4 one better.
No offence, but Simon in your signature looks like a drug queen with bad makeup.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on November 30, 2011, 03:23:41 PM
Kojima's Trevor design was far from perfect. Thigh-high boots and another pretty face. Sure, it was better than Chronicles Simon, but still not an ideal template.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on November 30, 2011, 06:04:39 PM
Quote
The thing I do like about his face is that he looks young (versus his rugged face in Akdra X68k). I'm pretty sure he was in his 20's during that time.

People of the era in which Simon lived didn't live very long and that is a well-known fact. 25 to 30 years, 40 if you're lucky enough and many died due to combat, famine or disease. Even if Simon were in his 20's he'd still be rather rugged-looking due to the environment he's dwelling in, the type of food being available to him, the heavy mineral content in water from the mountains he drinks, and the fact that he's a medieval warrior who probably got his face banged up good a few times in training. Having rugged looks tells us exactly what type of person he is and what occupation he has. Kojima gave him a face that doesn't speak of combat at all, but of aristocracy, social gatherings, romanticism; the type of looks that have never gazed upon the foul ranks of the undead before nor experienced combat. Trever was closer as the lone scar on his left side gave us that impression, though not by much.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on November 30, 2011, 07:09:03 PM
Simon was 38(!) according to that Konami Track and Field game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Findex.png&hash=7384938f6886178f766b0eb0c1a5c310a5732a82)

And I totally forgot his chibi appearance in that game.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Kingshango on November 30, 2011, 08:57:02 PM
I perfer the "Conan the Barbarian" Simon look, Chronicles Simon looks like he's about to tell me the safety word.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on November 30, 2011, 09:43:52 PM
To be honest, Classicvania Belmonts were never really era appropriate in costume either. The Barbarian look is pretty out of place for their eras.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on November 30, 2011, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: Flame on November 30, 2011, 09:43:52 PM
To be honest, Classicvania Belmonts were never really era appropriate in costume either. The Barbarian look is pretty out of place for their eras.

I agree.

The only one who was really era appropriate was Richter during his SOTN appearance and his Rondo opening appearance (when he is looking at the map).

Also if you want to count Julius, and Leon's knight attire.

I think if albus was a belmont he would have definitely been the most "era appropriately dressed".

On the topic of Simon's look.

I actually like his chronicles look over almost all his others besides SCV4.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on November 30, 2011, 10:50:05 PM
Julius outfit might be a tad awkward in 2035. . . it's kinda awkward for 2011 hehe

but then again who can say what qualifies as "awkward" nowadays
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on November 30, 2011, 10:58:13 PM
Quote from: Crisis on November 30, 2011, 10:50:05 PM
Julius outfit might be a tad awkward in 2035. . . it's kinda awkward for 2011 hehe

but then again who can say what qualifies as "awkward" nowadays

Well to be fair Julius did lose his memory for the last 30 years or so.

So its entirely possible he has no idea what "fashion" is during 2035 and just wears what he feels comfortable in.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on December 01, 2011, 12:15:27 AM
Actually, by that logic, he should be p to date on fashion since he was a clean slate after 99. He didnt lose his memory IN 2035.

He kinda looks like an old west kinda wardrobe.

But hey, modern day there are all kinds of fashions. 2035 cant be too far different than the way things are now in fashion. Maybe there's a retro fashion craze, accounting for Soma and Julius' clothes looking like from different eras.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: KaZudra on December 01, 2011, 12:27:19 AM
Julius is fine, is AoS look is superior to his DoS look.

Chronicles Simon.... I think it's the color scheme that pulls attention away since his "beta" look with brown clothes and blonde hair seemed to be fine.

the only major bone I have to pick with Ayami is her rebel against headbands, Trevor and Richter were the most notable headband wearers and she just took em off. the artist in HD (wasn't ayami to my knowledge) gave richter his old look back which was really cool IMO.

Simon to me should look like a mix between his Chronicles and Cv2 look. but all his classic looks are fine for Classic appeal.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on December 01, 2011, 12:58:38 AM
Quote from: Flame on December 01, 2011, 12:15:27 AM
Actually, by that logic, he should be p to date on fashion since he was a clean slate after 99. He didnt lose his memory IN 2035.


Yea, but, he was trapped IN the castle the entire time.

I highly doubt he could learn about modern fashion in such a old fashioned castle.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 01, 2011, 01:22:21 AM
Ayami Kojima was HoDespair's artist.

Also Darkprincealucard, what? Julius was never trapped in the castle.
Quote
J:      Yes, you're right. I can't give you my name, but people call me J.

SOMA:   People call you "J"? why hide your real name? Are you a criminal?

J:      No. I have amnesia. I'm told that I was in an accident in 1999. When
        I woke up in the hospital, I had forgotten my name and my past.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: DarkPrinceAlucard on December 01, 2011, 01:40:32 AM
Quote from: beingthehero on December 01, 2011, 01:22:21 AM


Also Darkprincealucard, what? Julius was never trapped in the castle.

oops my bad lol.

Its been a while since I played AOS and my mind for some reason thought he was trapped in the castle leading up until AOS.

silly me.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on December 01, 2011, 05:55:56 PM
Of all Kojima designs Julius probably is my favorite one. As Flame said he has some old west flair to him.

Quote
Kojima's Trevor design was far from perfect. Thigh-high boots and another pretty face. Sure, it was better than Chronicles Simon, but still not an ideal template.
Yeah, I think I went overboard with "ideal template".
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on December 01, 2011, 09:05:04 PM
Fuck I cant find it anymore, But I remember there was a sketch of an era appropriate Simon with a beard somewhere on DA.

Also, Julius AoS look rocks socks, but I cannot deny his awesome CVHD portrait.

Also, are we SURE Kojima is the artist for Harmony of Despair? Or at least the only one? Some designs just seem too far from her usual style, faces in particular are not quite like she draws them. Alucard comes to mind.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on December 01, 2011, 09:55:29 PM
I think SotN Richter is her finest Belmont "remix" portrait so far. He has snappy, not-too-flamboyant clothes and isn't femininely pretty.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on December 01, 2011, 10:08:39 PM
Ms. Kojima most certainly was responsible for Harmony of Despair's artwork. She draws a wide variety of faces, just look at her art in Santa Lilio Sangre.


The real question is, why didn't she draw a new Simon portrait like she did for all the others  ???
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on December 01, 2011, 11:47:12 PM
because konami would have to pay her more for that and iga is known for trying to keep every penny he can

also kojima can improve. her technical skills just got better, hence the greater variety and better anatomy. though i do think the hodespair art lost a bit of something. there was always this eeriness in the older work, be it the symmetry or colors that are lacking in the new ones.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sonic_Reaper on December 02, 2011, 12:19:38 AM
While I love Ayami's interpretations of old-style Richter and Maria, as well as the PoR and DoS gang, I agree that her art here seems to lose some of it's charm, and looks more like her going through the motions, then actually coming up with something new or compelling.  I guess in a way, it's ground she's already treaded, so she can only be creative with the poses, and not with the clothing.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 01:42:33 AM
She's much more versatile than what we give her credit for sometimes, but she has her flaws. She's very capable of phoning it in, like with some of HoDespair's art, and some of DXC's. Plus, she's made some baffling mistakes with some of the characters' proportions, like Hector's funky wrist and Alucard's too-big hands. On the other hand, the scans from the tutorial-book on armster.org shed some light on Kojima's painting process, and it's insanely-complex and time consuming. She apparently creates textures on the pictures themselves. I guess after devoting so much time to tiny little details, she can't really go back and fix mistakes all that easily. But it's only bothered me for one of Hector's concept drawings with this funky wrist, and otherwise I find the majority of her stuff to be good (even if I don't like some of the designs themselves.)

That said, I still think her Simon Belmont is good. I don't like the choker, now that Jorge-sama pointed it out, but the rest is fine by me. As A-yty pointed out, his yellow eyes and dark appearance gives him a pretty savage aura to him. And then you have the ultra-heroic arrangement of his theme, and it makes him a rather unique and mysterious hero even though there is zero characterization.

All-in-all, his vastly unique design contributes to Chronicles' charm for me. I can play as the good-old gruff 80's Simon, or Kojima's more medieval-gothic Simon. Along with the music, it really helps with giving both the Original and Arrangement versions feel like two totally different games even though there aren't that many differences between the two.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on December 02, 2011, 07:45:33 AM
Quote from: thernz on December 01, 2011, 11:47:12 PM
iga is known for trying to keep every penny he can

He uses a budget Konami has granted to him. And what remains unused, is still Konami's money.

So, why would he do that? Seriously, that sounds incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 12:14:21 PM
IGA is hypothesized to keep every penny that can.

And A-yty is right, that theory is incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 02:56:30 PM
Still, it's pretty fascinating to see Simon's design transition.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FRough_05.jpg&hash=7ab213fd9496f91eb70cca40a45eed052403b730)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fsimon-concept.jpg&hash=6c3b424fb85871f399707d3321247dd4f028c1f5)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FSimonBelmont-3.gif&hash=fb37a024e7ebcac0ed401f08c3c1fcf2da815045)

The second one was always a little wtf for me. It's good, but seems more Juste-ish than Simon. Maybe that's where Juste was inspired. Strange to see him with white hair and a rapier instead of the usual bastard sword.

I always found it interesting how much her initial Simon sketch had in common with Simon's original appearance.

Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on December 02, 2011, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: A-Yty on December 02, 2011, 07:45:33 AM
He uses a budget Konami has granted to him. And what remains unused, is still Konami's money.

So, why would he do that? Seriously, that sounds incredibly stupid.
iga is stifling funds to buy conditioner for his wife shanoa
obviously
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on December 02, 2011, 07:20:50 PM
I hear he hoards the money in a huge treasure chest deep inside a volcano..and Konami hasn't noticed anything.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on December 02, 2011, 08:35:26 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FOtherSimon.jpg&hash=a820a27594d0ab320a39ca552046cf96b46dd978)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Mooning Freddy on December 02, 2011, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: DarkPrinceAlucard on November 30, 2011, 10:58:13 PM
So its entirely possible he has no idea what "fashion" is during 2035 and just wears what he feels comfortable in.

Meh, 2035 is not that long from now and I don't suppose Soma and Julius should be wearing plastic space suits. It's not that far off in the future lol...
Quote
there was always this eeriness in the older work, be it the symmetry or colors that are lacking in the new ones.

Like the extremely disproportioned heads in CoD I suppose?  ;)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on December 02, 2011, 09:01:03 PM
no that was just bad
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on December 02, 2011, 09:21:10 PM
My favorite works of Kojima are her LOI and DXC arts. And her HD artworks is nice too, except for Richter who looks like he has a severe case of backache.
I think this theory was mentioned somewhere on this forum, that she used digital coloring for the arts in HD, hence why they look so different from her usual style.

Original Simon treatment of hers, looks so much better than the final result. Make his hair a bit darker and change his leather shorts for...something, and that would be a very nice design.

Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 09:48:44 PM
Successor and I were talking about that earlier today. He said that the original sketch probably would have won everyone over.

But I bet that Konami asked Kojima to come up with a very different and striking design, because the sprite reflecting the original sketch would have been probably too similar to CVX68k's original sprite for Simon. Hence, she then went with a white-haired, shredded-blue-nobleman's-clothes-Simon with a silver rapier before settling on something that was a compromise between the two extremes. Also, it does strongly remind me of CV2's Simon. :]

Some of those old sketches from that art book are really something, like the original black-haired Alucard and brown-haired Juste Belmont.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on December 02, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac71%2FFlame-G102%2FGeneral%2FUntitled-1-1.jpg&hash=b23a1b3b639f276320022a25d960bf2aaa15722d)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac71%2FFlame-G102%2FGeneral%2FUntitled-3.jpg&hash=59272ab251057af9b8d8285e15627561a9ef558c)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac71%2FFlame-G102%2FGeneral%2FUntitled-2.jpg&hash=0acc27c494859c7ea1d5d3c2e81088b850bb6072)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: Flame on December 02, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac71%2FFlame-G102%2FGeneral%2FUntitled-2.jpg&hash=0acc27c494859c7ea1d5d3c2e81088b850bb6072)

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: A-Yty on December 02, 2011, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: Flame on December 02, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac71%2FFlame-G102%2FGeneral%2FUntitled-1-1.jpg&hash=b23a1b3b639f276320022a25d960bf2aaa15722d)

This is the most acceptable out of those.

Knight Leon is her best original design, IMO.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linnavaanijat.com%2Fimg%2Fhahmot%2FLeon.png&hash=ce1dc38583e1f42c4883a32d86ba612fa0ed923a)

..and this isn't completely terrible either:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linnavaanijat.com%2Fimg%2Fhahmot%2FLeon2.jpg&hash=d9e5b9c590bfe2f839e21d6efed589c6ea282bdd)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dremn on December 03, 2011, 03:09:27 AM
Absolutely hate it. He looks like a BDSM star.

Classic Simon forever.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: TheouAegis on December 03, 2011, 05:38:51 AM
Simon trägt stilvolle Lederhosen, ja.

Maybe Kojima hates the English and preferred some Germanic clothing. Although the physique sure ain't.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 14, 2012, 06:03:44 AM
It's... horrible. In every sense of the word.
The color scheme is too bright, the overdose of leather, that fur... thing over his shoulder, the kojimaface, the slender build that makes him look even LESS masculine than other Kojima men and well. It's not Simon, it's BDSimon. There's only one good thing about the Chronicles design - at least it's not as bad as Judgment one.

I'm glad that when NECA made Castlevania figures, they based Simon figure off classic design instead of this. Simon for me is the ultimate badass vampire hunter. Yeah, he wore leather and carried a whip around, but he was so badass he made me overlook those facts. Chronicles version on the other hand digs himself deeper.
The original blonde version of Chronicles design was a little more acceptable, but still not that good.
(Yeah, yeah, posts bordering on necro full of negative are not the best way to introdouche yourself to the forums, but well, I just hate this design so much).
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Munchy on May 14, 2012, 06:31:24 AM
Quote from: beingthehero on December 02, 2011, 02:56:30 PM
Still, it's pretty fascinating to see Simon's design transition.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FRough_05.jpg&hash=7ab213fd9496f91eb70cca40a45eed052403b730)

Outside of the whole "half an armor" deal I quite like this design. It's mostly faithful to how he looks in the game.

Not to say I don't like Chronicles Simon, but I like the classic approach of the unused one.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on May 14, 2012, 12:42:11 PM
Quote
The color scheme is too bright, the overdose of leather, that fur... thing over his shoulder, the kojimaface, the slender build that makes him look even LESS masculine than other Kojima men and well. It's not Simon, it's BDSimon
Agree with you on most accounts. Especially on the colour scheme and overdose of the leather.
And thanks for introducing new name for this "Simon" - now I will call him BDSiMon.  ;D
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Thomas Belmont on May 14, 2012, 03:56:17 PM
I don't mind Kojima's Simon's appearance, though, I would prefer him with brown or blonde hair. It's his atrocious outfit that I can't stand. Not only is it an eyesore but it doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dremn on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
Thought this was interesting, but Konami still acknowledges the original design for Simon in their new Sound Voltex Booths. This appears as artwork for the Vampire Killer remix in the game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Nagumo on May 14, 2012, 05:08:41 PM
Wow, that design is pretty cool. It is inspired by his barbarian appearance, but he looks a bit handsome too.   
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
And they kept the ONE shoulderpad from the Ayami design. Oh Konami.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Thomas Belmont on May 14, 2012, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
Thought this was interesting, but Konami still acknowledges the original design for Simon in their new Sound Voltex Booths. This appears as artwork for the Vampire Killer remix in the game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)


Now THAT'S Simon Belmont! Awesome pic.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on May 14, 2012, 08:18:50 PM
oh, a little asymmetry is always okay. though, it's kinda weird all the extra details like the armlet, where the belt wraps from the top, longer hair, and shoulder pad are all on the right, uh. there's a sheath at least.

lern to balance, simon
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 14, 2012, 08:47:32 PM
Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
Thought this was interesting, but Konami still acknowledges the original design for Simon in their new Sound Voltex Booths. This appears as artwork for the Vampire Killer remix in the game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)
Now that's true Simon Belmont - brown clothing and hair, muscles, overall manly and badass look, while without the testosterone overdose. Much better than weird clothes and the testosterone shortage of BDSiMon.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on May 14, 2012, 08:54:40 PM
Hideo Kojima: Not bad, but please change the face, so it is become more relatable.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 14, 2012, 09:30:51 PM
Quote from: Flame on May 14, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
And they kept the ONE shoulderpad from the Ayami design. Oh Konami.

The single shoulderpad has been there since Akumajo Dracula X68000.  You can see it in the ending in big sprite form, and the booklet artwork also has it.
He also has a badass vamp-fang tooth necklace.  Of badassness. :3
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Neobelmont on May 14, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
Thought this was interesting, but Konami still acknowledges the original design for Simon in their new Sound Voltex Booths. This appears as artwork for the Vampire Killer remix in the game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)

Heck yes that is Simon awesome I want this version in the next game.

Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Koutei on May 14, 2012, 10:58:51 PM
Quote from: Flame on May 14, 2012, 07:51:01 PM
And they kept the ONE shoulderpad from the Ayami design. Oh Konami.
From origin.
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CV1/fc00101.jpg (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CV1/fc00101.jpg)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2012, 11:00:29 PM
I never even noticed that was there.

Interesting.

So it's the other way around then I guess.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on May 14, 2012, 11:30:16 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jap-sai.com%2FGames%2FAkumajo_Dracula_X68000%2FAkumajo_Dracula_X68000_Art_01.jpg&hash=6fe83b7a42b9db9c9e5bd836315e361adb34f7bd)
Akumajo Dracula X68000 Box Artwork.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on May 14, 2012, 11:38:07 PM
Yep! Simon Belmont in all his glory.  8)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 15, 2012, 12:15:06 AM
Best Castlevania Cover art ever IMO.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 15, 2012, 01:10:17 AM
Quote from: Flame on May 15, 2012, 12:15:06 AM
Best Castlevania Cover art ever IMO.
Indeed. It tells you everything you need to know about the game.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ahasverus on May 15, 2012, 01:16:17 PM
Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
Thought this was interesting, but Konami still acknowledges the original design for Simon in their new Sound Voltex Booths. This appears as artwork for the Vampire Killer remix in the game.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)
Perfection
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Aridale on May 15, 2012, 01:19:23 PM
I agree thats a fantastic Simon. Id love to see it in sprite form =D
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ahasverus on May 15, 2012, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: Aridale on May 15, 2012, 01:19:23 PM
I agree thats a fantastic Simon. Id love to see it in HD 3D model form =D
Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: VladCT on May 15, 2012, 01:39:00 PM
Why not both? Oh wait, already seen the former in PoR. lol
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 15, 2012, 03:05:04 PM
Quote from: shelverton. on November 29, 2011, 03:48:16 PM
Also, I think more guys should wear eyeliner.

Agreed. However, That half-coat thing is completely useless and too "fashion-y". Whole coat or GTFO.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Chernabogue on May 15, 2012, 03:09:24 PM
This new Simon rocks. Not fan of the hair cut (something a bit more metalhead/stylish, maybe?), but in general, I'd really love to play a 3D CV game with that Simon.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 15, 2012, 03:23:28 PM
These are both better interpretations of this design, I think.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

My co-worker just brought up a good point. Up in the Carpathian mountains of it's freakin' cold most of the time. And I doubt the games usually take place in summer.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on May 15, 2012, 05:07:55 PM
Quote
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)
Perfect Simon. Simply awesome.
Interestingly, seems Konami fluctuate between his two designs. In International Track & Field on NDS he appeared in his CVC form, in some scateboarding game he appeared in his Barbarian design. In HD he once again in CVC costume, and now this.
Simon "Two face" Belmont?  :D
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dremn on May 15, 2012, 05:36:32 PM
It's common sense/knowledge that Simon was directly inspired from Conan the Barbarian, but why Conan? What made Konami even go for Conan as the basis of Simon's design? He looks more like a barbarian than a vampire hunter. I like the barbarian look but it never struck "vampire hunter" to me, more so just "video game icon."

Same for the whip, why a whip?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 15, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
Quote
It's common sense/knowledge that Simon was directly inspired from Conan the Barbarian, but why Conan? What made Konami even go for Conan as the basis of Simon's design? He looks more like a barbarian than a vampire hunter. I like the barbarian look but it never struck "vampire hunter" to me, more so just "video game icon."

Same for the whip, why a whip?
I don't know about Conan, but I remember reading somewhere that they chose the whip because it was hard to properly animate a sword on NES hardware.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on May 15, 2012, 06:37:44 PM
A lot of NES-era characters had the Conan/tough guy look, Konami was just going with the flow nah mean jelly bean

Quote
but I remember reading somewhere that they chose the whip because it was hard to properly animate a sword on NES hardware.

LOL
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dremn on May 15, 2012, 06:48:06 PM
Quote from: JayDominus on May 15, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
I don't know about Conan, but I remember reading somewhere that they chose the whip because it was hard to properly animate a sword on NES hardware.
That's pretty damn funny if true.

The whip is more original in the end, so it's probably a good thing they went in favor of that.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on May 15, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
I wonder wha happen to Leon's sword  ??? and his gauntlet
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on May 15, 2012, 10:34:42 PM
Quote
I wonder wha happen to Leon's sword  ??? and his gauntlet

Leon's sword belonged to the order which he left so he had to leave it behind. His Gauntlet on the other hand is just god awful. Having a gauntlet that spread-out near the elbow would be more cumbersome then functional/practical. I have no idea what Ayami Kojima was thinking when she designed it.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Kamirine on May 15, 2012, 11:45:10 PM
I never disliked Chronicles' Simon design and still don't, hair color and all. I mean okay, he looks BDSM glam-tastic but I still thought he looked decent. He was wearing the hell out of those boots, for instance. And at least he looked better than he did in CV Judgement (And Simon's design was one of the very few I actually liked in that game.)

Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)

This, dare I say, is a perfect design for him though.  It's the perfect blend of both design choices for Simon: the rigid/Conan look but still manages to look handsome. I'd love to see this design in an actual game.

Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 16, 2012, 12:31:28 AM
Quote from: OSM on May 15, 2012, 05:36:32 PM
It's common sense/knowledge that Simon was directly inspired from Conan the Barbarian, but why Conan? What made Konami even go for Conan as the basis of Simon's design? He looks more like a barbarian than a vampire hunter. I like the barbarian look but it never struck "vampire hunter" to me, more so just "video game icon."

Same for the whip, why a whip?

Judging from all the earliest Japanese art, this isn't exactly the case. While they were going for a little bit of barbarian with his boots, his actual design is mostly typical for an average person in the 1600's. The whole Conan thing seems like it's more of a result of art created for the other regions after the fact. Then by the time of HC, it seeped back to Japan as the accepted design. In CV2, for example, he's decidedly not reminiscent of Conan.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: C Belmont on May 16, 2012, 01:01:54 AM
But the very first castlevania cover was the same for all regions wasn't it? and it has Simon sporting the Conan inspired look along with a pose stolen straight from a Frank frazetta painting.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ahasverus on May 16, 2012, 01:20:45 AM
Quote from: JayDominus on May 15, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
I don't know about Conan, but I remember reading somewhere that they chose the whip because it was hard to properly animate a sword on NES hardware.
This is true! I think it was Kinuyo Yamashita who said this.. or Cox :P
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Koutei on May 16, 2012, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: OSM on May 14, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqZ96z.png&hash=ef1ed5b16ded8d97789fb4ea03404d7303104c31)
This art was drawn by "Banpai Akira".

http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/ (http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/)

Koumajou Densetsu artist.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: VladCT on May 16, 2012, 11:02:49 AM
Wow, didn't think he'd pull off a realistic style that well. At first I thought it was someone else since it was so different compared to his usual style.
...Uh, Banpai Akira is a he, right?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Koutei on May 16, 2012, 11:38:07 AM
Yes, Banpai Akira is male.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Nagumo on May 16, 2012, 12:43:50 PM
Never mind.

 :(
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 16, 2012, 03:43:10 PM
Quote from: C Belmont on May 16, 2012, 01:01:54 AM
But the very first castlevania cover was the same for all regions wasn't it? and it has Simon sporting the Conan inspired look along with a pose stolen straight from a Frank frazetta painting.

You're right. But take into consideration that often in the Nintendo era the cover artist has little or nothing to do with the character designer. Hell, some cover artists never even have the benefit of looking at the production art for the game and have to rely on screen shots and/or short descriptions.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on May 16, 2012, 03:54:32 PM
Quote
This art was drawn by "Banpai Akira".
http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/ (http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/)
Koumajou Densetsu artist.
WOW.
Unexpected development. I know that he is an awesome artist, but this looks amazing.
Seems Konami appreciated his art form Komajou Densetsu series. Maybe they will hire him for the next japanese 2D game, if it will ever be released? I think it will be definitely awesome.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dremn on May 16, 2012, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: Koutei on May 16, 2012, 10:54:11 AM
This art was drawn by "Banpai Akira".

http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/ (http://yatsukame.blog.fc2.com/)

Koumajou Densetsu artist.
Wow, he did an amazing job. He should do more art for Konami.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 16, 2012, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Inccubus on May 16, 2012, 03:43:10 PM
You're right. But take into consideration that often in the Nintendo era the cover artist has little or nothing to do with the character designer. Hell, some cover artists never even have the benefit of looking at the production art for the game and have to rely on screen shots and/or short descriptions.

Case in point:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F6986%2F20080112megawhat.jpg&hash=396c963f0be11c0502f1c37e06b18b5874fd2e41)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on May 17, 2012, 03:35:06 PM
For some reason, now that I look at it, that original US mega man art reminds me of TRON.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: knightmere on May 18, 2012, 01:09:12 AM
While it is overall better than the original X6800 sprite, the Red/Purple hair is quite a baffling choice and doesn't seem fitting at all.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 19, 2012, 02:35:44 AM
Quote
While it is overall better than the original X6800 sprite, the Red/Purple hair is quite a baffling choice and doesn't seem fitting at all.

Now speaking of which, yeah, I also prefer Chronicles' sprite over the original X68000 sprite... except for the PINK hair. What the hell? It's red on the cover art, why is it pink in the game itself? It's Playstation, for crying out loud, color limitations are nonexistent, why pink?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Munchy on May 19, 2012, 07:47:40 AM
Quote from: JayDominus on May 19, 2012, 02:35:44 AM
Now speaking of which, yeah, I also prefer Chronicles' sprite over the original X68000 sprite... except for the PINK hair. What the hell? It's red on the cover art, why is it pink in the game itself? It's Playstation, for crying out loud, color limitations are nonexistent, why pink?

Because it just wouldn't be a Castlevania without some inconsistent hair coloring.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on May 19, 2012, 08:28:45 AM
Quote from: The Silverlord on November 30, 2011, 07:46:56 AM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.gamepro.com%2Farticle_img%2Fgamepro%2F205548-6.jpg&hash=8d36d20f9dfed702873e39383140ad5ade35f8b4)

I don't like the Chronicles design (fashion disaster), but Ayami had a good go at injecting something new into the character. 

The original CV box art still has so much magic about it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the Chronicles look would be totally terrible under the brush of a lesser illustrator, but Ayami's usual brilliance serves to make it passable. Also agree that imho the best Simon Belmont is still the one from the cover of CV1.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Thomas Belmont on May 19, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
Man, even "Chronicles" Simon's gloves don't even make sense. What was Kojima thinking?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: kingu on May 20, 2012, 06:06:25 PM
it's incredible that people just never realize what some design aspects actually are. the red is half of a tunic and the "boa" is fur for the tunic, not any different than the fur on the side of it.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: X on May 20, 2012, 06:14:53 PM
Quote
Man, even "Chronicles" Simon's gloves don't even make sense. What was Kojima thinking?

Stylization over practicality I think is one of her drawbacks. But every artist has their faults.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 21, 2012, 06:27:04 AM
Quote from: Ratty on May 19, 2012, 08:28:45 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the Chronicles look would be totally terrible under the brush of a lesser illustrator, but Ayami's usual brilliance serves to make it passable. Also agree that imho the best Simon Belmont is still the one from the cover of CV1.
...or the other illustrator wouldn't go with "bishie BDSM lover" look at all, and simply modernized Simon a bit instead. Seriously, Kojima may be good at drawing stuff (even  though I'm not always happy with how she draws protagonists, her Dracula is always good), but she's not perfect and Chronicles Simon shows it.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 21, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Thomas Belmont on May 19, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
Man, even "Chronicles" Simon's gloves don't even make sense. What was Kojima thinking?

How so? Just curious.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Thomas Belmont on May 22, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
Quote from: Inccubus on May 21, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
How so? Just curious.


Look at his fingers.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on May 22, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: Thomas Belmont on May 22, 2012, 12:53:12 PM

Look at his fingers.

No fingers. That gives him greater manual dexterity as opposed to a full leather gauntlet. I think it makes sense since as a vampire hunter you have to be fast to battle unnaturally quick adversaries.
In general it makes sense that most Belmonts don't wear heavy armor since they often fight enemies that can tear through armor like it was paper.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Aridale on May 22, 2012, 02:55:45 PM
yeah I actually really like the gloves... thats it tho
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: CastleDan on May 23, 2012, 11:50:15 AM
He looks like he's into S&M....

Seriously hate the design. Some designs I hated which is odd because that person is such a great artist.

Isaac comes to mind....w...t....f....

Symphony of the night still has my favorite Artwork/character designs of all..
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 23, 2012, 11:58:17 AM
I dig the red hair. Makes him look unique compared to most other belmonts who are invariably blonde or brown haired.

except for Juste, who has white hair.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on May 23, 2012, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Flame on May 23, 2012, 11:58:17 AM
I dig the red hair. Makes him look unique compared to most other belmonts who are invariably blonde or brown haired.

except for Juste, who has white hair.

I never liked that. Red hair is a recessive trait and I can buy that Simon might be the only Belmont in the line to face Dracula with it showing up. But long white hair? It doesn't make any sense. It was obviously done to make Juste look more like Alucard. But Alucard only had long white hair because he was a half-Vampire (the human half showing in the whiteness) who had been asleep in his coffin for so long while his hair still grew. I guess it would sort of make sense if the later Belmonts were descended from Dracula as I like to think in my personal canon. But in IGA's own timeline they're not, I guess that's a hole he tried to plug up by making Leon a blonde/a bit Meg Ryan-ish.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: crisis on May 23, 2012, 03:29:06 PM
Actually Alucard's hair is light-blonde; it's a misconception that it's white.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on May 23, 2012, 03:31:11 PM
Quote from: Crisis on May 23, 2012, 03:29:06 PM
Actually Alucard's hair is light-blonde; it's a misconception that it's white.

Maybe I need to replay SOTN again then, it's been about 3 years. Been waiting to get the RCA cables for my Saturn before I replay it though :I
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on May 23, 2012, 03:32:59 PM
I think it was supposed to give Juste a sort of mystic quality.

It's a bit weird because Alucard is magical as well, but he has platinum blonde hair, which is actually still pretty normal for a person, but Juste is just showing Alucard up. I think in the end, it was probably just for the sake of aesthetics, matching the hair with the rest of his stark reds and silvers. And Juste's red and white palette is pretty distinct compared to everyone else.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on May 23, 2012, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: thernz on May 23, 2012, 03:32:59 PM
And Juste's red and white palette is pretty distinct compared to everyone else.

As one disapproving modder put it "Bishojo Santa Clause"

Also wait, if it's blonde how did he go from short black hair to blonde hair while he was asleep? I dunno guess I'm just taking hair too seriously in a game featuring the undead lol.

EDIT: I guess as far as Alucard is concerned it's not that mysterious. If Dracula can change his visage so drastically between appearances I think we can safely assume his son can at least control his hair length and color. Blonde would help him more strongly identify with his mother*. Why he would make it longer and therefore less practical for fighting we may never know, though I'd guess it's because he's just that badass.

*Or Sonia :P any association with which he'd want to hide from Trevor. "Say that whip looks awful familiar... You're a vampire hunter? Wha Sonia Belmont was your mom? And you never knew your father? ...Hi! Congratulations I'm your long lost dad! Just been sleepin in this coffin your whole life. ...Yep."
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on May 23, 2012, 05:17:47 PM
considering how alucard has platinum-blonde hair in the latest pachinko game which is a retelling of dracula's curse, i'm guessing he canonically no longer ever had black hair ever since kojima redesigned him.

it's not like castlevania has ever really been consistent about appearances. look at how many times simon changed hair colors.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on May 23, 2012, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: thernz on May 23, 2012, 05:17:47 PM
considering how alucard has platinum-blonde hair in the latest pachinko game which is a retelling of dracula's curse, i'm guessing he canonically no longer ever had black hair ever since kojima redesigned him.

it's not like castlevania has ever really been consistent about appearances. look at how many times simon changed hair colors.

*nods* Yep
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Flame on May 23, 2012, 08:28:48 PM
I think the white hair on Juste is supposed to accentuate that he inherited magical abilities from the Belnades in his blood. I mean, yeah, bit late in the line that the Belmonts finally got some of that, but if Sypha's magical powers were a recessive trait, or if the Belmont side was just more dominant, it could make sense if Simon can get red hair that Juste could inherit magical powers.

In other words, "Its magic I aint gotta explain white hair"

Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: JayDominus on May 24, 2012, 09:56:28 AM
Any JUSTifications on Juste's white hair and how it's "not just to be an Alucard clone" shatter when you take the silhouette that appears when he's jumping, just like with Alucard.

Seriously, I liked Harmony of Dissonance more when it was called Symphony of the Night and was on PSX.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: VladCT on May 24, 2012, 10:27:55 AM
'Cept Al had platinum blond hair instead of silver white. :V
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: beingthehero on May 24, 2012, 10:30:28 AM
And Soma also had the silhouette in DoS.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Dark Nemesis on May 24, 2012, 02:26:49 PM
What do you think guys?

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniacrypt.com%2Fgames%2Fcc%2Fimages%2Fart%2Fsimon-31.jpg&hash=6f7a7d90e3a375700017a35e504bc3a84d4a9fb5)
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: thernz on May 24, 2012, 03:19:37 PM
Yeah, he has an after-image effect, but he also can dangle his whip, and with the right conditions, he can shoot fireballs. And when he's on an incline, he poses like a Belmont.

So I guess Juste is actually Simon-Alucard-Christopher.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Facehead on June 02, 2012, 04:02:03 AM
To me personally, I actually like the Chronicle Simon design, though I don't think of it of it when I think "Simon Belmont". Don't get me wrong in comparison to his earlier designs it makes vast improvements, though, not in a "Simon Belmont" way.

To briefly explain myself, he looks more suited to be a anti-hero or villain then a Holy man on a mission to defeat Dracula. I personally think he should more look something among the lines of Gabriell or Trevor(ps2), but that's just my opinion. But hey, anything beats the captain n depiction of Simon.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Johnny on June 08, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
Quote from: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 29, 2011, 05:32:23 PM
I'm not fond of a number of things in his design:

1. The overuse of leather in his neck (makes him look like an S&M enthusiast).  I can deal with the Roman-style studded leather skirt, but not the neck buckle things.  The other games that have him in leather have it up to his neck, but never as a leather-with-metal-buckles-turtleneck thing.
2. The furry black boa stuff he's wearing (it would've been better if it were an actual animal skin, like a gray wolf skin or something)
3. The 3-inch heels he's got in his pointy boots. Also, the pointy boots.
4. It's not that it's red hair... it's that it's bright red hair.  Slightly more brown but still red would've been fine, like his Judgment hair color (which is kinda a wine/burgundy color) or auburn.
5. He's wearing tights.  Leather tights.  Studded black leather tights.  That's just too far gone, for me.

Here is what I like about his design:
1. The gloves are well done.  I like seeing him with full gloves (even if they are open at the fingertips, which is kinda not cool) instead of just bracers.
2. It's nice that they kept the "off-center" design on his armor from the older iterations of his costume.
3. The use of red in the armor is really cool.  Kinda gives it a Simon's Quest air.
4. I dig the leather straps on the boots, even if I don't like the black fur, the heels, and the tips.
5. The chains and metal work are done well, as is the sheath for his sword/subweapons.

What do you think about it fitting the class of how a barbarian should look overall? This has always been criticized with Alucard, Richter and other characters in that artform have always been criticized for looking too feminine and not tough enough. However, this seemed ok for the most part due to the time frame being the Victorian era. As the overall look, expressions, etc. does it fit how you think a barbaric vampire hunter from the mid 1600s should look? Mostly if you consider the original Castlevania and Castlevania 2 box art as well as Super Castlevania 4 for the SNES which posed a more realistic and less cartoony look to Simon, how does this compare in your eyes Jorge from an artist's perspective? In other words, how appropriate is the entire design beyond just Castlevania aside from just your likes and dislikes. I'm curious.

Now in regards to other Castlevania games Jorge, what would go through your mind if you made a comparison of Chronicles to Super Castlevania 4. If you had a SNES and a PSX with two TV sets alongside each other and played both games (or two emulator windows) what exactly in comparison could you say pleases you more about Super Castlevania 4. Is it the detail of animation in SCV4 like stair climbing, the design, the details, which aspects would you say?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Tavis Belmont on June 08, 2012, 09:53:20 PM
Simon's Chronicles look is actually my favorite of his. I think it's a nice mesh of the original, while making him feel tied to the (at that time) growing number of Kojima-drawn cast. I still think Trevor was her best interpretation, though. Richter's Dracula X look would probably be a close second to me. As for Juste, I liked his look, but it didn't like the flowing white hair. Belmont hair just seems to change throughout the years to every color on the spectrum. I'm still waiting for a green-haired Belmont.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 09, 2012, 02:09:59 AM
Quote from: Johnny on June 08, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
What do you think about it fitting the class of how a barbarian should look overall? This has always been criticized with Alucard, Richter and other characters in that artform have always been criticized for looking too feminine and not tough enough. However, this seemed ok for the most part due to the time frame being the Victorian era. As the overall look, expressions, etc. does it fit how you think a barbaric vampire hunter from the mid 1600s should look? Mostly if you consider the original Castlevania and Castlevania 2 box art as well as Super Castlevania 4 for the SNES which posed a more realistic and less cartoony look to Simon, how does this compare in your eyes Jorge from an artist's perspective? In other words, how appropriate is the entire design beyond just Castlevania aside from just your likes and dislikes. I'm curious.

Now in regards to other Castlevania games Jorge, what would go through your mind if you made a comparison of Chronicles to Super Castlevania 4. If you had a SNES and a PSX with two TV sets alongside each other and played both games (or two emulator windows) what exactly in comparison could you say pleases you more about Super Castlevania 4. Is it the detail of animation in SCV4 like stair climbing, the design, the details, which aspects would you say?

You're asking me directly?

Um... there are some problems with the Chronicles (X68000) version of Simon that CV4 doesn't have.  Mainly, X68000 Simon looks like he's got a back problem.  He's hunched forward, walks somewhat funny, and moves slowly even though his frames move quickly.  That is to say, he's doing a full set of walking sprites but doesn't walk as far when he's animated.

He looks like he's got Scoliosis or something.  CV4 Simon doesn't have those issues.  He stands more upright and has a more loose walking animation (I think it's the arms).
CV4 Simon has way too much leg muscle, though.  He's got some muscle gams on him.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: e105beta on June 09, 2012, 02:19:19 AM
New Simon is best Simon.

Seriously, why do I need psuedo-designer Barbarian Simon when I have REAL Barbarian Simon (complete with Firebeard)?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Inccubus on June 09, 2012, 04:08:11 AM
Quote from: e105beta on June 09, 2012, 02:19:19 AM
New Simon is best Simon.

Seriously, why do I need psuedo-designer Barbarian Simon when I have REAL Barbarian Simon (complete with Firebeard)?

Absolutely yes! If the rest of MoF suck total ass, at least we have like the most bad-ass incarnation of Simon yet.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Starman DX on June 09, 2012, 03:19:23 PM
Actually I kind of like chronicles Simon, though its hard to say because I've never been a fan of how he looks lol. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with the NES and SNES games, but I never liked "Conan the Barbarian" Simon. His chronicles design is... intresting to say at the least, and as another user here mentioned he stands out form the other Belmonts.

His redesign is pretty good for his body anyway, but I don't really like his clothes. I guess I can't really put my finger on it. Anyway, I've always liked Trevor and Richter's designs the most, and Leon was pretty awesome too.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Tavis Belmont on June 09, 2012, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: e105beta on June 09, 2012, 02:19:19 AM
New Simon is best Simon.

Seriously, why do I need psuedo-designer Barbarian Simon when I have REAL Barbarian Simon (complete with Firebeard)?

The look is cool, but does anyone else have a problem with his voice? I was expecting something even deeper and more hoarse than Gabriel. And he sounds almost... I dunno... chipper.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Mystic Myotis on June 09, 2012, 05:01:46 PM
I've always liked Simon's sprite design in Simon's Quest...
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Tavis Belmont on June 09, 2012, 05:14:03 PM
Quote from: Gaawa-chan on June 09, 2012, 05:01:46 PM
I've always liked Simon's sprite design in Simon's Quest...

Yeah, I've never thought of Simon as a barbarian, personally. For me, his Simon's Quest box art is what I usually thought of first until the Kojima look. That's why I really like Gabe's look. You can tell it's inspired by the Simon's Quest look.

That actually brings up a good question. When you think of Simon, what color do you think of first? Red and black or tan and brown?
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Sumac on June 09, 2012, 06:43:23 PM
Tan and Brown.
Brown mostly.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Ratty on June 09, 2012, 06:48:16 PM
Quote from: Tavis Belmont on June 09, 2012, 05:14:03 PM
Yeah, I've never thought of Simon as a barbarian, personally. For me, his Simon's Quest box art is what I usually thought of first until the Kojima look. That's why I really like Gabe's look. You can tell it's inspired by the Simon's Quest look.

That actually brings up a good question. When you think of Simon, what color do you think of first? Red and black or tan and brown?
Muted orange and brown.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Johnny on June 09, 2012, 08:33:20 PM
Quote from: Jorge D. Fuentes on June 09, 2012, 02:09:59 AM
You're asking me directly?

Um... there are some problems with the Chronicles (X68000) version of Simon that CV4 doesn't have.  Mainly, X68000 Simon looks like he's got a back problem.  He's hunched forward, walks somewhat funny, and moves slowly even though his frames move quickly.  That is to say, he's doing a full set of walking sprites but doesn't walk as far when he's animated.

He looks like he's got Scoliosis or something.  CV4 Simon doesn't have those issues.  He stands more upright and has a more loose walking animation (I think it's the arms).
CV4 Simon has way too much leg muscle, though.  He's got some muscle gams on him.

I agree with you on this. As well as the monster designs. The animations seem a lot more fluid in SCV4. I was thinking it was just me who happened to feel this way which is why I asked your opinion directly. You're usually good with paying attention to detail. I previously recall also someone (maybe it was you) mentioning that Simon in Chronicles looks more like he is walking on his tippy toes rather than flat.

Don't get me wrong I like Chronicles, but I always found there to be some issues (even with the x6800 version) as far as how the animations, monsters and Simon are handled. I would get into the monster animations and how awful some of them are as well but since this is about Simon, I'll stick to the subject.

Heres SCV4

Super Castlevania 4 Stage 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaLwpmNNlzA#)

Now look at Chronicles

Castlevania Chronicles (Intro and Stage 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZflNPmNgC4#ws)

As you pointed out Jorge yes the back is way too arched in Chronicles. But in addition to that I also noticed the arms and legs have more of a stride to them in SCV4. Its a much more relaxed walk with the arms paced back and forth and sliding step pace. In Chronicles he seems like he is more rigid and stiff with the leg movement and arms. The arms move way too off rhythm and too fast and the legs move slower and yes have a tippy toe look to them. So this is what I mean about this particular Castlevania having very awkward movements and motions. Some even give the appearance of a slowdown.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Thomas Belmont on June 09, 2012, 08:39:26 PM
I think Gabriel is a great 3D "Simon's Quest" Simon. However, when I think of Simon, I think of "Barbarian" Simon. He's the original and he's who I've known since I was a little kid.
Title: Re: Chronicles Simon
Post by: Starman DX on June 11, 2012, 04:51:34 PM
I never got the impression of Simon as a barbarian, even when I played CV1, 2 and 4. I thought of him as a village hero, like how Richter is presented. Also, red is typically the color I associate Simon with.

That being said, Chronicles design always comes to mind first, but as I said before I never really liked any of Simon's designs.