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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Tuxedo Mark on September 07, 2012, 03:55:15 PM

Title: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Tuxedo Mark on September 07, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
Has any explanation ever been given regarding the woman that Simon sees before beginning his quest in CV2 (in the Japanese manual)? I know it occured in a cemetery, but I don't recall reading anything else about her.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Nagumo on September 07, 2012, 04:30:20 PM
The timeline that came with the Portrait of Ruin anniversary bundle revealed it was a gypsy woman who could see into the future. Some people theorized it was actually Sara's soul (which resides in the Vampire Killer) that spoke to Simon. Personally, I like that explanation better.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Chernabogue on September 07, 2012, 04:45:34 PM
The timeline that came with the Portrait of Ruin anniversary bundle revealed it was a gypsy woman who could see into the future. Some people theorized it was actually Sara's soul (which resides in the Vampire Killer) that spoke to Simon. Personally, I like that explanation better.
Indeed, it's very nice.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Phoenix7786 on September 07, 2012, 05:34:27 PM
Where DOES Leon fit in IGA's continuity? He's still considered the progenitor over Gabriel now that Sonia's been retconned, correct?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 07, 2012, 06:04:43 PM
Gabriel has nothing to do with the old canon. If anything you can think of Gabriel = (Leon + Methias ^ Alternate Reality).

The Sara's Soul explanation is a hell of a lot more interesting than a completely random nameless gypsy chick.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Phoenix7786 on September 07, 2012, 06:09:11 PM
Oh praise be to God for LoS being an AU. That "Trevor, I am your father" BS was such far-fetched bullcrap it made me sick to my stomach.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 07, 2012, 06:22:16 PM
I think that she being a gypsy doesnt is true, IGA made this be the truth years after so thats BS, even in the artwork she isnt using a robe like the others. The only truth is that we maybe never will know the real truth.
But if I have to choose between she being Sara or a random gypsy, I choose Sara. lol
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: crisis on September 07, 2012, 06:28:23 PM
youre all wrong
it's either julia or rosaly
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 07, 2012, 06:40:13 PM
youre all wrong
it's either julia or rosaly
Who are these? Julia is the witch in CoD? Who is Rosaly? You are being a troll or serious? what is a man?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Chernabogue on September 07, 2012, 06:59:38 PM
Who are these? Julia is the witch in CoD? Who is Rosaly? You are being a troll or serious? what is a man?
Julia is the ally/witch in CoD. Rosaly is Hector's dead wife.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 08, 2012, 03:58:08 AM
Julia is the ally/witch in CoD. Rosaly is Hector's dead wife.
Oh, thanks xD
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Mystic Myotis on September 08, 2012, 05:13:49 AM
Julia is the ally/witch in CoD. Rosaly is Hector's dead wife.

That's right.  Julia could see into the future, couldn't she?  Perhaps it was one of her descendents; weren't she and Hector going to make some sort of safe-haven for dark-but-not-evil people in the mountains or something like that?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 08, 2012, 07:55:14 AM
Anything is fine as long as it isn't played off as a random gypsy.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Nagumo on September 08, 2012, 12:11:54 PM
I think that she being a gypsy doesnt is true, IGA made this be the truth years after so thats BS, even in the artwork she isnt using a robe like the others. 

I can verify that some exclusive information from that timeline about CVII's story comes from an offical Japanese guidebook of the game. It's possible the identity of the mystery woman was revealed in there. So you might be jumping the gun a bit about it being made up afterwards. At the time, it would have fitted just fine with the story.   
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Tuxedo Mark on September 08, 2012, 12:42:18 PM
I can verify that some exclusive information from that timeline about CVII's story comes from an offical Japanese guidebook of the game. It's possible the identity of the mystery woman was revealed in there.

If anyone can get a hold of that guidebook and verify it, I'd be interested in knowing.

Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that she was mentioned in Judgment.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on September 08, 2012, 03:45:42 PM
That's right.  Julia could see into the future, couldn't she?  Perhaps it was one of her descendents; weren't she and Hector going to make some sort of safe-haven for dark-but-not-evil people in the mountains or something like that?
It's almost implied that Hector and Julia eventually become a couple(their interaction was more nudging that than Alucard and Maria, and we all know what became of that). Add on to the fact that Rosaly and Julia were like twins that weren't actually related. Though, it would be interesting to see a descendant of Hector and Julia, and what type of magical potential they possess.

Though, I do like the idea of Sara being the woman in the mist.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 08, 2012, 04:14:22 PM
If anyone can get a hold of that guidebook and verify it, I'd be interested in knowing.

Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that she was mentioned in Judgment.
Im interested too and you are right, they mention this woman in Simon ending if I recall correctly
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: X on September 08, 2012, 04:29:21 PM
Quote
Anything is fine as long as it isn't played off as a random gypsy.

I don't see the problem with a random gypsy woman informing Romania's savior about an inflicted curse. Gypsies aren't just nomads or thieves, they are also a spiritual people. More-so back in medieval times and they were all over the Romanian lands. Being gifted with 'sight' the woman could easily see Simon's suffering very clearly even before he knew what was going on. Not everything in the CV universe has to be interconnected with other people from other games/origin stories etc. If it were Sera from LoI why talk to Simon only and nobody else of the Belmont clan? If it were Rosaly, why talk to Simon when she had absolutely no connections with him but had every connection with Hector? And if it were Julia why talk to Simon when she could envision the future and see that everything turned out alright for him in the end thus not needing to inform him from beyond the grave?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 08, 2012, 11:10:14 PM
I don't see the problem with a random gypsy woman informing Romania's savior about an inflicted curse. Gypsies aren't just nomads or thieves, they are also a spiritual people. More-so back in medieval times and they were all over the Romanian lands. Being gifted with 'sight' the woman could easily see Simon's suffering very clearly even before he knew what was going on. Not everything in the CV universe has to be interconnected with other people from other games/origin stories etc. If it were Sera from LoI why talk to Simon only and nobody else of the Belmont clan? If it were Rosaly, why talk to Simon when she had absolutely no connections with him but had every connection with Hector? And if it were Julia why talk to Simon when she could envision the future and see that everything turned out alright for him in the end thus not needing to inform him from beyond the grave?

There's no NEED for it, but it would be much more interesting than a blatant plot device. Also...

If it were any random gypsy chick why talk to Simon only and nobody else of the Belmont clan? If it were any random gypsy chick, why talk to Simon when she had absolutely no connections with him but had every connection with her significant other? And if it were any dead random gypsy chick why talk to Simon when she could envision the future and see that everything turned out alright for him in the end thus not needing to inform him from beyond the grave?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: beingthehero on September 08, 2012, 11:52:59 PM
I had totally forgot about the woman being mentioned in Simon's ending in Judgment. Acknowledging that was kind of cool.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: X on September 09, 2012, 07:20:17 PM
Quote
There's no NEED for it, but it would be much more interesting than a blatant plot device.

Not necessarily since this 'blatant plot device' was a part of SQ long before IGA and his games came onto the scene.

Besides, all of this:
Quote
If it were any random gypsy chick why talk to Simon only and nobody else of the Belmont clan? If it were any random gypsy chick, why talk to Simon when she had absolutely no connections with him but had every connection with her significant other? And if it were any dead random gypsy chick why talk to Simon when she could envision the future and see that everything turned out alright for him in the end thus not needing to inform him from beyond the grave?
makes me feel like you're trying to take a stab at me. I hope that isn't the case as I do like having discussions with you.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 09, 2012, 09:50:19 PM
Not necessarily since this 'blatant plot device' was a part of SQ long before IGA and his games came onto the scene.

Regardless they could have done more with her than just a quick plot device to explain how Simon even knew to go on a quest. For that, they could just as easily have had him have a vision in a crystal ball or read a prophecy in a book or any other number of things.

Besides, all of this:makes me feel like you're trying to take a stab at me. I hope that isn't the case as I do like having discussions with you.

Of course not. Just pointing out that all those arguments could easily apply to just about any given character in that position. Didn't mean to seem like I was taking a stab. Besides, you should know by now I never do that. If I think you're being an ass I'll tell you straight out in classy way. ;)
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 09, 2012, 10:20:15 PM
Regardless they could have done more with her than just a quick plot device to explain how Simon even knew to go on a quest. For that, they could just as easily have had him have a vision in a crystal ball or read a prophecy in a book or any other number of things.

Hahahaha "see future in balls" hahaha you made me remember that video again xD
Seriously now, if they wanted they could have explained it better even in Judgement. It seems that they will hold all cool ideas for a future remake, even if it never see the sunlight.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: X on September 09, 2012, 11:20:13 PM
Quote
Of course not. Just pointing out that all those arguments could easily apply to just about any given character in that position. Didn't mean to seem like I was taking a stab. Besides, you should know by now I never do that. If I think you're being an ass I'll tell you straight out in classy way. ;)

Gotch'a  ;) Although I'd never want to become one as it's just not acceptable behavior for my character. It's difficult to tell these things online then it is talking face to face.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Reinhart77 on September 16, 2012, 03:36:53 PM
i prefer to think of her as the spirit of Sypha, his ancestor.  it fits at least.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: X on September 16, 2012, 03:51:28 PM
Quote
i prefer to think of her as the spirit of Sypha, his ancestor.  it fits at least.

The divine mother figure telling her great grandchild of a severe curse that has inflicted him. I kinda like this idea too. It's not out-of-the-way like with Sera or Julia. I think it could work.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 16, 2012, 04:07:31 PM
That would've worked too.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Koutei on September 21, 2012, 02:40:18 PM
I can verify that some exclusive information from that timeline about CVII's story comes from an offical Japanese guidebook of the game.
I have Japanese CVII guidebook (And, almost all Japanese CV guidebooks). There was no information about the mystery woman.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 21, 2012, 03:14:31 PM
I have Japanese CVII guidebook (And, almost all Japanese CV guidebooks). There was no information about the mystery woman.
Wow, thanks for sharing this information :)
Do you know anymore about CV II from these guidebooks? Like the clues, so we can know if some of them are mistranslated.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Koutei on September 22, 2012, 02:12:39 AM
There is no schedule to which I perform it.

You can read transcript here.
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/13_Clues (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/13_Clues)
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 22, 2012, 03:20:49 PM
Thanks, but I mean the clues that the villagers say, since we cant say if some of them tell lies or are only a result of bad translation, I know that some of them lie tough.

About the 13 clues, here is what google translator says, first the original english version and below the google translator version:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 23, 2012, 05:16:21 AM
I made a request post at the translations forum at ROMhaking.net.
The guys over there will make short work of these.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 23, 2012, 05:27:06 AM
I made a request post at the translations forum at ROMhaking.net.
The guys over there will make short work of these.
Thanks .
You and these contacts... it makes me fell like as if we are in mafia lol
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 24, 2012, 01:29:55 AM
lol @ mafia.

Here are the translations:

1: When you drive a stake into a particular object, a symbol of the Prince of Darkness will appear.
2: Something like... "Bring the item which will dispel the curse of Brahm Mansion's river". Or perhaps "Brahm Mansion's side". I dunno.
3: The source of sacred flame sleeps even now in the realm sealed off by fire.
4: If you bring hold a White Crystal above your head at Berkeley Mansion, a path will open up to you.
5: If you kneel before the lake while holding a Blue Crystal, the earth will again accept water into itself.
6: The key to your curse, Simon, is the heart of the Prince of Darkness.
7: To find the one who awaits you, you must bring garlic to the graveyard. This will purge it of monsters.
8: There is an old gypsy in front of Deborah Cliff who has a Diamond.
9: Bring a Red Crystal before Deborah Cliff, then wait for the wind.
10: Laurels placed into a silk bag will once again gain life.
11: The nails of the Prince of Darkness have the power to break down evil barriers. (lit. 'evil/wicked walls')
12: The laruel trees had their life force stolen by the swamp's curse.
13: The knife that Death carries has the ability to cloud Camilla's vision.

So they're mostly similar to the official translation but definitely less cryptic for the most part.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 24, 2012, 05:53:50 PM
Thanks, they are only similar in some parts, they translated it in a way that is almost useless, the translation that you are showing now mayne even makes the game playable without a guide.

I dont remember CV2 map, but I think that "Bring the item which will dispel the curse of Brahm Mansion's river" is refering "The key to your curse, Simon, is the heart of the Prince of Darkness." so its almost saying to you show Dracula's heart to the ferryman.

"Bring a Red Crystal before Deborah Cliff, then wait for the wind." instead of "WAIT FOR A SOUL WITH A RED CRYSTAL ON DEBORAH CLIFF." makes more sense too, the original translation makes it appear that the soul will give you a red crystal, even when you already have a red crystal and understand that you need to use it in Deborah cliff you will not know that a wind or tornado will be used, obviously you dont will wait if you didnt see a gypsy or invisible block, but knowing it is a wind makes the things more easy.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 24, 2012, 07:08:39 PM
Agreed. Here's an alternate attempt to translate those same clues by another translator plus his notes.

Quote
Clue 01: カシノキノクイヲ アルモノニ ウチコムトキ マオウノ ショウチョウハ アラワレル
樫の木の杭を ある物に 打ち込むとき 魔王の象徴は 現れる
If you drive a stake into a certain object, the symbol of the dark lord will appear.

Clue 02: ブラームノヤカタ カワノ ノロイヲ トクモノ ムカエイレル
ブラームの館(で) 川の 呪いを解く物 迎え入れる
At Brahm Manor you will find an object that will lift the river's curse.

Clue 03: セイナルホノオノ ミナモトハ ヒニトザサレタ リョウイキニ イマモ ネムル
聖なる炎の 源は 火に閉ざされた領域に 今も 眠る
The source of the sacred flame still sleeps in the region sealed off by fire.
 
Clue 04: バークレイノ ヤカタデ シロスイショウヲ カザストキ ミチハ ヒラカレル
バークレイの 館で 白水晶を かざすとき 道は 開かれる
Raise a white crystal in Berkeley Manor and a path will open.

Clue 05: アオスイショウヲ カカゲ コスイノマエニ ヒザマズクトキ ダイチハ ミズヲ ウケイレル
青水晶の 掲げ 湖水の前に ひざまずくとき 大地は 水を 受け入れる
If you raise a blue crystal and kneel down by the lake, the earth will swallow the waters.

Clue 06: マオウノシンゾウハ ノロワレシモノノ ノロイヲ トク
魔王の心臓は 呪われしものの 呪いを解く
The dark lord's heart will lift the curses from cursed things.

Clue 07: ハカバニ ニンニクヲ オクト マモノハ キエウセ ソナタヲ マツヒトガ アラワレル
墓場に ニンニクを置くと 魔物は 消え失せ そなたを 待つ人が 現れる
If you place garlic in the graveyard, the monsters will vanish, and a person who waits for you will appear.

Clue 08: デボラノガケノ マエニ チョウコウセキヲ モツ トシオイタ ジプジーガ イル
デボラの崖の 前に 潮紅石を 持つ 年老いた ジプシーが いる
In front of Deborah Cliff is an aged woman with a blushing red stone.

Clue 09: デボラノガケノ マエデ アカスイショウヲ カカゲ カゼヲマテ
デボラの崖の 前で 赤水晶を 掲げ 風を待て
Hoist a red crystal in front of Deborah Cliff and wait for the wind.

Clue 10: キヌノフクロニ クルマレシ ゲッケイジュハ タマシイヲ フキコマレル
絹の袋に くるまれし 月桂樹は 魂を 吹き込まれる
Laurels wrapped in a silk pouch will inspire the soul.

Clue 11: マオウノツメハ ジャアクノカベヲ ウチクダク チカラヲ モツ
魔王の爪は 邪悪の壁を 打ち砕く 力を 持つ
The dark lord's nails have the power to shatter vicious barriers.

Clue 12: イノチアル ゲッケイジュナキモノ ヌマノノロイニ イノチツキル
命ある 月桂樹無き者 沼の呪いに 命尽きる
The lives of those without laurels will be sapped away by the swamp's curse.

Clue 13: シニガミガ カクシモツ ナイフニ カミーラノ ヒトミハ クモル
死神が 隠し持つ ナイフに カミーラの 瞳 曇る
Camilla's eyes are clouded by the knife which Death conceals.


Lots of archaic phrasing here. Note that my translations differ a bit from DS's, particularly 2, 6, 8, 10, and 12. I think DS must've misinterpreted ちょうこうせき in #8 as 超宝石 (ちょうほうせき), which could be understandably rendered as "diamond". AFAICT, is should be 潮紅石, which literally means "blush(ing) stone". In 10 I used the original meaning of the word "inspire", which was something like "to breathe life into" ("spirit"="breath"="life"). In 12 I (unintentionally) made a pun by using the word "sap".

Additionally someone on ROMhacking.net is doing a complete translation of Dracula II. That should reveal a lot, plus he said he has the entire script translated in text file.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 24, 2012, 07:35:13 PM
Agreed. Here's an alternate attempt to translate those same clues by another translator plus his notes.

Additionally someone on ROMhacking.net is doing a complete translation of Dracula II. That should reveal a lot, plus he said he has the entire script translated in text file.
Wow, thanks! Say to him or her (or it lol) that Im thanking for this, we really need this. If they did all these errors in the most important texts of the game, imagine the rest. xD

I never understanded why these old woman says "live here with me" or something like that.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Koutei on September 24, 2012, 11:56:41 PM
Small mistake found.

Quote
Clue 03: セイナルホノオノ ミナモトハ ヒニトザサレタ リョウイキニ イマモ ネムル
聖なる炎の 源は 火に閉ざされた領域に 今も 眠る
The source of the sacred flame still sleeps in the region sealed off by fire.
ヒニトザサレタ リョウイキ is 陽に閉ざされた領域 (Where Light Does Not Reach). I think.

Quote
Clue 08: デボラノガケノ マエニ チョウコウセキヲ モツ トシオイタ ジプジーガ イル
デボラの崖の 前に 潮紅石を 持つ 年老いた ジプシーが いる
In front of Deborah Cliff is an aged woman with a blushing red stone.
チョウコウセキ is 跳鉱石. 跳鉱 is Rebounding. 石 is Stone.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Lelygax on September 25, 2012, 12:34:00 AM
What is rebounding? The aged woman? lol
Seriously now, it is the place that you receive the rebounding stone? I dont remember.

Here is the notes that Incubbus received and shared about that part, as a reminder:
Quote
I think DS must've misinterpreted ちょうこうせき in #8 as 超宝石 (ちょうほうせき), which could be understandably rendered as "diamond". AFAICT, is should be 潮紅石, which literally means "blush(ing) stone".

Rebounding blushing stone sounds strange, in japanese blushing have something to do with "flashing" or something?
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Koutei on September 25, 2012, 12:38:34 AM
It was translated as Rebound Stone by SOTN.

http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Ricochet_Rock (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Ricochet_Rock)

Ricochet Rock in HD.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Orlox on September 25, 2012, 01:09:55 PM
I thought clue #3 was because Drac is easely killed with the sacred flame and as he appear in a ring of fire.
Wonder if they changed the items location in a hurry to make the game more difficulte, the eye and the rib should have been exchanged.

Strangely they placed the most overpowered sub-weapon at the beginning (sacred flame), but the weak diamond in the mid game at a hardly accessible place.



Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 25, 2012, 04:32:59 PM
@Koutei:

Quote from: DarknessSavior
Actually, on his variation of the last one 跳 is rebounding and 鉱石 is "crystal" or "ore".

~DS
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Koutei on September 25, 2012, 10:06:10 PM
Quote from: DarknessSavior
Actually, on his variation of the last one 跳 is rebounding and 鉱石 is "crystal" or "ore".

~DS
Oops, I mistook.
Probably, this is best translation.
Title: Re: The woman in the morning mist
Post by: Inccubus on September 26, 2012, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: Paul Jensen
Also, I made a stupid mistake:

Clue 08: デボラノガケノ マエニ チョウコウセキヲ モツ トシオイタ ジプジーガ イル
デボラの崖の 前に 跳鉱石を 持つ 年老いた ジプシーが いる
In front of Deborah Cliff is an aged woman gypsy with a rebounding stone.

I screwed up out of force of habit. Nine times out of ten it's an old woman. :)

HTH