Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Inccubus on April 24, 2013, 04:49:09 PM
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According to the wikia entry in the Japanese version of Bloodlines has Dracula's second form as Drolta.
There's no source cited and in all three releases of the game it shows Dracula powering UP to transform into his second phase.
Unless there's something in the Japanese manual that says that this is in fact the case, then I call bullshit on this.
Here's the wiki page:
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Drolta_Tzuentes (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Drolta_Tzuentes)
And here's the discussion in case anyone wants to chime in:
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Drolta_Tzuentes (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Drolta_Tzuentes)
Here are the manual scan in case anyone wants to translate them:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual1_zps1071e93b.jpg&hash=42c1feda4c7df90ff66aaf7f8650d7d224c747a8) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual1_zps1071e93b.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual2_zps7ba85260.jpg&hash=4de71d4f278c13178401f56e6c5f6b9579e28c70) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual2_zps7ba85260.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual3_zpsfc13b6e2.jpg&hash=86113b550fc95c235badea8a02347780098c1263) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual3_zpsfc13b6e2.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual3_zpsfc13b6e2.jpg&hash=86113b550fc95c235badea8a02347780098c1263) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual3_zpsfc13b6e2.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual5_zps592a0625.jpg&hash=ad878928175c5c023c96f66dc368ebf5f6ef9699) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual5_zps592a0625.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual6_zps9eb8707f.jpg&hash=a655629f4ebd33ba1388df84ef548fbb5414b84a) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual6_zps9eb8707f.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual7_zpsd9887ecd.jpg&hash=8856de8d396289570de482968489567c5d42e40b) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual7_zpsd9887ecd.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual8_zps11473084.jpg&hash=b5f073a38484f5ca4f4aae7bf07cc909afb1ef74) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual8_zps11473084.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual9_zpsa1501f4e.jpg&hash=36aaaabc5dc83a99a4b4cb7f94e3ef8f3c204a55) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual9_zpsa1501f4e.jpg.html)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi256.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh189%2Fkoala_knight%2FStuff%2Fth_vkill-manual10_zps7dc90873.jpg&hash=7a1a9012ff95c5c8b501ba5f125d597c85ca37c1) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/koala_knight/media/Stuff/vkill-manual10_zps7dc90873.jpg.html)
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It is in the japanese manual, I thought it common knowledge that the 2nd form is Drolta.
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Where? What's the text that says that? Because the in game graphics do not in any way lead one to that idea at all.
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I think Drolta tries to protect Dracula before he transforms into his second form. But the two are two different characters!
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Is it odd that I have no idea what you guys are talking about? I thought it was a nod to drac's first form in dracula's curse with the wand and stuff
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Where? What's the text that says that? Because the in game graphics do not in any way lead one to that idea at all.
It leads, since Dracula never changes clothes when transforms (Malus is a exception and for obvious reasons) and these robes look like the same ones that Drolta uses.
Also: "Hempel's Raven", if someone said it and the notice spread it should be the truth, since anyone that knows japanese can fix it in a wiki (Im not one of these persons) xD
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Is it odd that I have no idea what you guys are talking about? I thought it was a nod to drac's first form in dracula's curse with the wand and stuff
That's what I always thought too. And it makes sense too since CV3 established Dracula as being a powerful sorcerer/alchemist/whatever.
It leads, since Dracula never changes clothes when transforms (Malus is a exception and for obvious reasons) and these robes look like the same ones that Drolta uses.
Also: "Hempel's Raven", if someone said it and the notice spread it should be the truth, since anyone that knows japanese can fix it in a wiki (Im not one of these persons) xD
I disagree. Just because something spreads doesn't make it true. In fact this is how rumors and urban legends come to be.
If we're gonna analyze what's actually in the game I can't say there's anything whatsoever that even hints that Dracula's second form is Drolta.
What actually happens in the game is a bunch of bats burst out of a coffin in the background after being hit by a column of light. The bats gather in another column of light and turn into Dracula's first form.
After defeating him in this form he floats to the middle of the screen where he turns towards the camera, absorbs a bunch of bats, smaller columns of light spreading from him, and he very clearly transforms into a cloaked form holding a staff. The palette is the same with the same skin tone. This is in all versions of the game. Just because he has a similar cloak to Drolta's artwork doesn't really mean anything. Plus she isn't depicted holding a staff or floating in the air. Further more her artwork shows her as having normal skin color, long grey hair and wearing a purple robe under her dark blue outer robes. The genesis was quite capable of depicting all this without being forced to share Dracula's palette.
Going on with what's depicted in the games, after defeating the second form Dracula once again floats to the center of the screen and absorbs more bats with even more columns of light spreading out from him. It should be noted that this is basically the same sequence as the first transformation but much bigger and flashier which in and of itself implied a greater infusion of power. As this is going on they do this fancy interlaced wavy effect for the third form's body appearing.
One thing people have said is that the third form implies that this is Dracula fused with Drolta. I have to disagree. The Demon with the face in it's belly has no implicit connection with fused beings and is actually quite common in Japanese culture and several others around the world. In fact most of the final bosses in the Ghosts 'n' Goblins series have second faces in their bellies. I submit that this is only a sign of Dracula's third form being a demon form, nothing more.
In closing, unless someone can translate the manual and/or cite an interview with someone on the creative team then I have to call bullshit on this Drolta thing.
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If you cant read japanese, you cant say its wrong or is right, while you didnt prove its wrong, it will still being truth. I tried to say you that with a bit of humor, but it seems that internet didnt translated it properly since we cant do voice tones with text xD
Im waiting for Shiroi or Koutei explanation, since they know japanese.
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I disagree. Just because something spreads doesn't make it true. In fact this is how rumors and urban legends come to be.
Thats true, but since everyone can edit a wiki page, its not totally correct, since a lot of people from this wiki know japanese.
In closing, unless someone can translate the manual and/or cite an interview with someone on the creative team then I have to call bullshit on this Drolta thing.
Its okay, do as you want, you are correct in doubting things. I only find it a little difficult to dont be true since anyone can fix it. You even took your time to search these scans, I appreciate it. :)
edit: While we are at it, why not check if Bartley turns into Medusa or she really summons her?
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If you cant read japanese, you cant say its wrong or is right, while you didnt prove its wrong, it will still being truth. I tried to say you that with a bit of humor, but it seems that internet didnt translated it properly since we cant do voice tones with text xD
Im waiting for Shiroi or Koutei explanation, since they know japanese.
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Thats true, but since everyone can edit a wiki page, its not totally correct, since a lot of people from this wiki know japanese.
Its okay, do as you want, you are correct in doubting things. I only find it a little difficult to dont be true since anyone can fix it. You even took your time to search these scans, I appreciate it. :)
edit: While we are at it, why not check if Bartley turns into Medusa or she really summons her?
No worries. I understand what you mean, I just don't agree since I'm coming from an opposite viewpoint. Yes anyone with the correct knowledge can fix a wiki, but that also means that anyone that doesn't have the correct knowledge can 'fix' it, too.
The reason I question is because no one provided any evidence that this point of view is correct. Someone just said it's so with no proper citation or quotes of any kind. If they had provided that on the wiki I wouldn't have asked.
Oh, and btw I understand a little bit of Japanese, but not enough to do much more than a literal translation and guess at the correct interpretation.
I always thought that Bartley turning into a gorgon was a little wierd. I guess we'll find out if there's any info about that since in the game it doesn't show anything very conclusive. She just teleports to a spot, holds her hand out and Medusa appears in her place.
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No going to lie Drolta sounds like a Godzilla monster :P I got nothing to contribute in this topic.
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Wiki says this:
Drolta is based on Dorottya Szentes, one of Erzsébet Báthory's servants and her accomplice in crime.
Should say something like this:
Drolta is based on Dorottya Szentes, one of Erzsébet Báthory's servants who was one of three people tried and convicted for the crimes committed by the 'Blood Countess'.
In fact, I'm going to go change it right now.
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Done! Now it says:
Drolta is based on Dorottya Szentes, one of Erzsébet Báthory's servants who was one of three people said to have been tried and convicted as accomplices to the crimes committed by the 'Blood Countess'.
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There is no hint in the Japanese manual.
Here is translation of the Japanese manual story.
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cvbl/game-media.htm (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cvbl/game-media.htm)
This is transcript of the Japanese manual character section.
http://castlevania.jp/a_main/14/14c.htm (http://castlevania.jp/a_main/14/14c.htm)
Q: Drolta Tzuentes is CV:Bloodlines Dracula's second form? Elizabeth Bartley is Medusa?
A: I don't know. I haven't official source.
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Can't say as I'm surprised about this.
EDIT: Reinhart77 over at the wikia can't find any concrete sources about the supposed connection to Dracula's second form and has given the go ahead change the info which I'm doing right now.
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Thats incomplete, without Dracula's profile we cant close this case yet. lol
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Thats incomplete, without Dracula's profile we cant close this case yet. lol
Until there's evidence to the contrary it would serve truth best not to propagate unfounded ideas. Besides, I added a bit in the 'Trivia' section stating that there is an idea floating around that Dracula's second form is Drolta, but that there is no concrete evidence of this thus far. I found a source for the idea, though. Mr.P's site states that the Japanese version gives Drolta more importance and goes on to speculate that Dracula's second form is her because of a similarity to her artwork. Seems because of the way it was written that people assumed that the speculation was connected to info in the Japanese manual. But this isn't the case. There are no citations on Mr.P's site either. It's just opinion.
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I think this rumor spread because of Mr P's site. But I have to admit, it would make sense to me. Why introduce her to the story but not kill her off? Doesn't that leave an unneccessary loose end to the story since she could just revive Elizabeth again? I believe the Japanese manual (Drolta's description) says she created the Armor boss from the first stage, so in that case she had at least an indirect confrontation with John and Eric.
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I personally think it happens something like this: You fight Dracula and kill him. Then Drolta appears and fights you. After you slay her she uses the last of her powers to bring Dracula back into the fight; offering herself as a blood sacrifice so to speak. But the gameplay itself is a little up in the air with this as it shows after Dracula's first defeat, him becoming that small cloaked sorcerer. But that could just be flashy graphics which is what SEGA never got tired of doing.
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Drolta's artwork looks almost exactly like that "form"
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniacrypt.com%2Fgames%2Fbl%2Fimages%2Fart%2Fdrolta-01.jpg&hash=35059474fed4a716bcf6acb686d50c02240cb4a6)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20060520024630%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FDrolta.gif&hash=230ba6ff602894077b8abab373766fea3a590a1e)
I've always liked the twist, but if it's fake it would be a great change you brought upon the community.
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I personally think it happens something like this: You fight Dracula and kill him. Then Drolta appears and fights you. After you slay her she uses the last of her powers to bring Dracula back into the fight; offering herself as a blood sacrifice so to speak. But the gameplay itself is a little up in the air with this as it shows after Dracula's first defeat, him becoming that small cloaked sorcerer. But that could just be flashy graphics which is what SEGA never got tired of doing.
That's a fine rationalization story-wise, but I have to disagree. If they wanted to convey that she comes in to back up dracula they could have done that. Instead they choose to go to the trouble of animating a complex (for the time) transformation sequence. That hardly seems like it's up in the air. After all they didn't even bother doing a transformation sequence for Elizabeth -> Medusa/Gorgon. That right there is up in the air as there's nothing to indicate whether it's a transformation or a summoning.
Look & Compare:
Elizabeth Battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch-h9MRHRXQ#noexternalembed)
Dracula Battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R38gA7aojc#noexternalembed)
Drolta's artwork looks almost exactly like that "form"
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20060520024630%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F6%2F6a%2FDrolta.gif&hash=230ba6ff602894077b8abab373766fea3a590a1e)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgamtow.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fdrolta_tzuentes.png&hash=4b16651d9be6bb6f4f61bf620799a20ca5b90052)
I've always liked the twist, but if it's fake it would be a great change you brought upon the community.
Other than both having a dark blue cloak, I don't see it. Sorry. I see a lot more differences than similarities.
And, thanks. I've always had a thing for truth and accuracy that only got stronger after my divorce. When I saw this I felt compelled to raise my voice. I dunno, maybe I shouldn't be so pedantic, but I couldn't help it this time.
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I just read the character description on Drolta.
It just said that she is a puzzling old witch who serves under Elizabeth. She uses monsters as puppets and she hinders vampire hunters.
There is no mention whatsoever about her being Drac's 2nd form.
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Thanks! ;D
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I just read the character description on Drolta.
It just said that she is a puzzling old witch who serves under Elizabeth. She uses monsters as puppets and she hinders vampire hunters.
There is no mention whatsoever about her being Drac's 2nd form.
I wouldn't expect there to be. Graham Jones' AoS profile says nothing about him believing himself to be Dracula.
I'm just sayin'.... I don't really feel one way or the other about this whole thing. I can see where both sides are coming from.
While there are differences in the Drolta artwork and that sprite, there are a lot of similarities and both kind of give off a very similar impression, in my opinion. There are a lot of inconsistencies in games from artwork to sprites. Take, for example, Symphony of the Night. The Dracula encountered at the beginning of the game is not wearing the clothes his dialogue portrait has, and Richter has a completely different outfit and hairdo.
But if that is meant to be Drolta, then the transition from Dracula to her then back to Dracula was very, very hamfisted and confusing.
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I wish we could get some official word on it from someone who actually worked on the game.
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I can't find anything in the manual that says so either, but it not being in the manual doesn't make it untrue.
Time has proven that manuals are/were often outdated/incomplete/not covering so I'm not sure about this either way.
I have to agree though that the 'story' seems plausible and the artwork is similar but that's about it.
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That's more true for the US versions of manuals, no? It's always been my observation that the Japanese versions of manually are more properly used to expand on the story. The US versions seem to often 'make shit up'. I still don't think there's enough similarity between the art work and the sprite. I mean literally the only thing is the hooded robe. The skin color is different, there's no hair, there's no sign of the purple under-robe. The story is plausible, but not any more plausible than Elizabeth tuning into Medusa vs. Medusa being summoned. On the other hand the animations in the game do support the more consistent (with the rest of the series) idea that it's simply one of Dracula's forms and further matches his backstory in CV3/LotDC where Dracula is specifically said to have been a powerful sorcerer.
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As i said before, you are right for wanting to know the truth. We need someone to translate Dracula's profile from the manual so we can be 100% sure that the manual doesnt say that he helped him in the last battle.