Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Dracula9 on August 24, 2013, 11:25:44 PM
-
I noticed something after another playthrough of the lovely monster today. I'm sure this has been noted before, but just in case, I must express my disappoint.
It says in the Dracolich's bestiary entry that it was alive in prehistoric times (which also contradicts the Biblical 2000-year time passage thanks to the Christian God's inclusion) and was presumably long-dead by the time intelligent humans came around. It was also located in the near-uninhabitable Necromancer's Abyss, which also would make it hard for humans to get remotely close to it.
Why is all this a problem? You can see swords and spears sticking out of its bones. If it was dead before we got here, and no human save Gabriel was able to reach its corpse, how did weapons get in it?
Logical fallacy, thy name is Dracolich Titan.
-
What is the life-span of a Dracolich? :P
-
I haven't played any of the LoS games but Lely is right, if it's an ancient monster it's had plenty of time for unsuccessful would-be monster hunters to stick weapons in it.
-
Not all Christians believed in 2000 year time passages. That's just something Catholics fabricated. Maybe Jews before them, but still, it's a niche belief.
-
I'm aware of that. I'm simply going by the book because I've found that typically is the safest way to refer to the religion without stepping on too many toes.
But regardless of the Dracolich's post-death age, it just became fossilized in that mountain/rock after it died, right? It's not been flying around for thousands of years wreaking havoc, has it? There's no real mention of that happening, IIRC. I can't find its damn bestiary entry on the Internet for the life of me. Every other monster, yes, just not him.
-
Is the Dracolich a domesticable animal?
Because I'm totally into pets, and I've been thinking about getting a rare animal for my mom so when I visit her I have a rare pet.
Someone have any experience on this?
-
they make awesome pets for riding around and traveling
-
Also they are prehistoric, imagine how many tricks he will have learned in all these years :P
-
Not all Christians believed in 2000 year time passages. That's just something Catholics fabricated. Maybe Jews before them, but still, it's a niche belief.
lol yeah where did you get that stuff OP? the internet?
And as you can see other brotherhood wariors got as far as the land of the dead, perhaps the dracolich was awakened for some of them, too.
-
Biblical calendar? Don't know about what you're talking about, but according to the Jewish faith, the world is 5774 years old, and I think the Christians inherited that calendar, so....
As for trying to make sense of monster descriptions in Castlevania, this is doomed to fail.
-
Young earth creationism is, currently, almost solely held by American Protestants. Seeing as this game was made by Spaniards, I highly doubt they were thinking of that when they threw in all the Catholicism.
-
And even then it's mostly held by the more radical evangelicals, and there aren't that many of them as commonly depicted in the media.
-
Biblical calendar? Don't know about what you're talking about, but according to the Jewish faith, the world is 5774 years old, and I think the Christians inherited that calendar, so....
Whomever dictated this to others obviously failed his final Math exam. Human civilization has been around far, far longer then 5774 years. If you believe in the lost continents of Atlantis and Lemuria (I do and the evidence is growing) then you're looking at a time scale of humanity to be around 10 million years old. And the Earth itself even longer; 4.5 billion years. It may be their faith but it's very vague and nonsensical (no offense to any Jewish people who might be here and yes I also have Jewish blood in me too, but I choose to exorcise my god-given freedom of will rather then blindly following what others tell me). This is just one of the many reason why I don't do religion.
As for the Dracolich's history, yeah it doesn't make any sense. Then again LoS on the whole doesn't make sense either. But that's not the game's fault. Cox and Mercurysteam made it like that so it's all on their heads.
-
Heh, it's a game.
-
Heh, it's a game.
Best answer ever.
-
Heh, it's a game.
Erm, yeah.
Look at what you've fucking started, D9.
-
Agreed. I don't believe the developers game much thought to that question...
Whomever dictated this to others obviously failed his final Math exam. Human civilization has been around far, far longer then 5774 years. If you believe in the lost continents of Atlantis and Lemuria (I do and the evidence is growing) then you're looking at a time scale of humanity to be around 10 million years old. And the Earth itself even longer; 4.5 billion years. It may be their faith but it's very vague and nonsensical (no offense to any Jewish people who might be here and yes I also have Jewish blood in me too, but I choose to exorcise my god-given freedom of will rather then blindly following what others tell me). This is just one of the many reason why I don't do religion.
With all due respect, X, I think you should spare yourself the embarrassment of calling this religious belief "vague and nonsensical" if you're going to assert the existence of Atlantis of Lemuria...
And wouldn't you think that even those who "blindly follow what others tell them" might also be exercising their own god-given freedom of will? Food for thought.
-
I've never ever encountered someone who thinks earth is 7000 years old or something, and if I did I'd laugh my ass off to them :P
-
Given that we have monolithic constructions that predate the timelines of the judeo-christian religions and that those timelines are open to interpretation, I would take it all with a grain of salt. We shouldn't put so much stock in what we "know" anyway because that changes from day to day. From new archeological discoveries to the often hushed fact that solar flares affect the results of radio carbon dating techniques to the shear stubbornness of many "scientists" the things we "know" are ever changing.
-
I don't believe anyone here is trying to share their firm religious convictions -- it just happens that Judeo-Christian timelines are relevant to this thread. Whether or not they are accurate isn't quite as important at the moment.
But I should certainly hope that you're taking them with a grain of salt. :)
-
Plus it is just a game after all.
-
It was said that the mountain troll (the big green one) was born before the human race didn't it? That makes it pre bbile times.
-
I think it might be best that we all agree that it's just another aesthetic MS dropped the ball on a bit before this gets out of hand.
Edit:
With all due respect, X, I think you should spare yourself the embarrassment of calling this religious belief "vague and nonsensical" if you're going to assert the existence of Atlantis of Lemuria...
In fairness, there's a certain degree of realism to the belief in sunken continents. We find underwater ruins all the time, some of which are unknown in origin or make. Hell, the notion of the third big continent Mu sinking and its remnants forming Easter Island and Hawaii and the like isn't outrageously far-fetched when one considers the ever-increasing amount of eerie similarities between geographically close (and even some far-apart) cultures. Chalking those up to coincidence because there's not enough in-your-face evidence at the moment is just as silly as declaring anyone who believes in them a hypocrite. Pot, meet kettle. Just saying.
-
If I may offer my two cents, I think I can explain the swords and spears sticking out of the Dracolich's body. You all seem to assume that it is a dinosaur and I don't think that it is. Just because it is big and fossilized doesn't make it a dinosaur. I'm not saying it's not old. It certainly is. However, in most video games with Dracoliches, they are almost always undead dragons, never dinosaurs. So, being that all dinosaurs were extinct before humans came along and there are stories of humans fighting dragons, the dracolich is almost certainly a dead dragon, not a dead dinosaur. That should explain things.
-
No, I'm not saying it's a dinosaur. Its bestiary entry (which I really cannot fucking find, so I'll write it down later tonight and repost it or something) mentions that it was alive in prehistoric times. That very strongly suggests that it was AROUND during dinosaur times, at least. Since it doesn't mention the dragon's original lifespan, or whether it had been awakened as a Dracolich before Gabriel showed up or not, I simply found the various weapons in its body to be nonsensical due to their lack of origin.
-
Well, now it makes sense for real, they say that he lived at prehistoric times, but never said anything about he never being revived normally or as a zombie/skeleton. Since in Castlevania a lot of mythical creatures are brought back by magic it seems that it have been revived and killed again.
A Dracolich is like a Dragon Lich? Because if so it was really a undead skeleton.
-
Yeah, that prehistoric thing is the issue. Then again, prehistoric only means before recorded history and it is likely that weapons like swords and spears were invented before writing systems. And, without writing, you can't really record history. Think ancient barbarian tribes that had weapons but no writing system that predated Mesopotamia which is were the first writing system was supposed created. It was also the first known civilization I believe. So, the dracolich could have been a dragon that was killed before that civilization came along.
Not saying that this the case. These are just my thoughts.
-
I was saying that maybe he revived as a skeleton or zombie and then have been killed again when these weapons already existed.
-
Yeah, that prehistoric thing is the issue. Then again, prehistoric only means before recorded history and it is likely that weapons like swords and spears were invented before writing systems. And, without writing, you can't really record history. Think ancient barbarian tribes that had weapons but no writing system that predated Mesopotamia which is were the first writing system was supposed created. It was also the first known civilization I believe. So, the dracolich could have been a dragon that was killed before that civilization came along.
Not saying that this the case. These are just my thoughts.
No, I'd believe that. With prehistoric having become immediately attached to dinosaurs and volcanoes, the involvement of pre-literate societies had slipped my mind (thanks for jogging it, by the way). I mean, Lords has a TON of things that would have taken decades, if not centuries, to get done (like that fucking microcontinent of a castle, good grief), and terms get thrown around that I'm sure weren't used in such manners in the eleventh century (calling both Stone Idol Titan and Carmilla each a bitch, for one), so it's not like realistic timing was taken totally into account.
And yes, Babylonian cuneiform is the earliest known system of actual recorded writing. Gotta love those Mesopotamians, with their Gilgameshes, and their Lamashtus, and their Pazuzus.
-
We don't know what prehistory encompasses in the LoS Universe, for all we know the Aghartian war could be prehistoric.
-
We're speaking about a mythical "Dracolich"; it could be assigned any life span we like.
Suppose it had lived in prehistoric times, but survived for millennia, until a nascent human race became skillful enough to use sophisticated weaponry and slew it?
Or suppose MercurySteam developers thought a dragon would look more intimidating with weapons stuck in its body?
Chalking those up to coincidence because there's not enough in-your-face evidence at the moment is just as silly as declaring anyone who believes in them a hypocrite. Pot, meet kettle. Just saying.
Dracula9, I am not here to declare anyone a hypocrite based on their beliefs. X is entitled to have his, and I do not question them. Yet in the absence of enough "in-your-face evidence", that is what they remain: beliefs. I simply do not find it appropriate for X to criticize Jewish religious beliefs in the way he did, especially considering how X manifestly holds his own.
-
Alright. I misread the tone of the statement then. I apologize. It came off to me as condescending.
And while that's all true, I prefer such aesthetics to have some degree of explained sense to them. There isn't much here, though this is simply one instance of many in Lords' lore.
-
In fairness, there's a certain degree of realism to the belief in sunken continents. We find underwater ruins all the time, some of which are unknown in origin or make. Hell, the notion of the third big continent Mu sinking and its remnants forming Easter Island and Hawaii and the like isn't outrageously far-fetched when one considers the ever-increasing amount of eerie similarities between geographically close (and even some far-apart) cultures.
Actually Lemuria is Mu. Mu is the short abbreviation for Lemuria. Like so; Le'Mu'ria. Lemuria is the lost Pacific continent whereas Atlantis is the lost Atlantic continent.
-
I've also heard theories (very old ones) that Lemuria was the now sunken continental shelf near India that became flooded after the last ice age ended. One thing is for sure, after the last ice age the water level rose something like 150 feet. I don't know about all these supposedly learned archeologists and anthropologists, but it seems to me that Humans have a penchant for living in coastal regions (aquatic ape theory anyone?) and thus there must be an entire history of lost civilization that is now under water that would explain a LOT of the holes that currently have no explanation. Just sayin'.
-
Lords has a TON of things that would have taken decades, if not centuries, to get done (like that fucking microcontinent of a castle, good grief),
castle doesn't count. it was made by a demonic pact with the Bernhards
-
I've also heard theories (very old ones) that Lemuria was the now sunken continental shelf near India that became flooded after the last ice age ended. One thing is for sure, after the last ice age the water level rose something like 150 feet. I don't know about all these supposedly learned archeologists and anthropologists, but it seems to me that Humans have a penchant for living in coastal regions (aquatic ape theory anyone?) and thus there must be an entire history of lost civilization that is now under water that would explain a LOT of the holes that currently have no explanation. Just sayin'.
Coastal regions provide more readily available protein (fish, shellfish) than other areas.
As for living near river systems, that would mean readily available fresh water and irrigation.
Plus water can mean you can easily escape from enemies through boats, provided they already learned the technology to do so.
-
Whomever dictated this to others obviously failed his final Math exam. Human civilization has been around far, far longer then 5774 years. If you believe in the lost continents of Atlantis and Lemuria (I do and the evidence is growing) then you're looking at a time scale of humanity to be around 10 million years old. And the Earth itself even longer; 4.5 billion years. It may be their faith but it's very vague and nonsensical (no offense to any Jewish people who might be here and yes I also have Jewish blood in me too, but I choose to exorcise my god-given freedom of will rather then blindly following what others tell me). This is just one of the many reason why I don't do religion.
Funny.... have you never considered that the Earth was indeed created 5774 (where the heck did this number come from anyway?) but made to look older and to have a past? Much like a novelist that thinks of a character, then creates a past for him or her?
-
I've considered it, but there's this awesome thing called science that's disproved that more than a few times. You could always go into the argument of time being relative and scientific discoveries to be relative to our current known method of existence, but then you go into dimensional and spatial points and inevitably divulge too far from the base topic.
Shit. Lucy's more than enough to disprove that theory.
Actually Lemuria is Mu. Mu is the short abbreviation for Lemuria. Like so; Le'Mu'ria. Lemuria is the lost Pacific continent whereas Atlantis is the lost Atlantic continent.
Really? Huh, I had never known that. I always thought they were separate locations (who cares, as long as they still have the three-eyed people!). The more you know. :)
-
My question is, why are we even trying to theorize all this for a Dracolich period? Now, from given from fantasy lore and some background (AD&D and such) this creature, before death was in fact a very powerful Dragon (sometimes very evil and cruel) and only a very powerful Necromancer can reanimate such a creature in to the world of man.
There is no 'prehistoric' concept about it, it is merely a Dragon reanimated as a "golem" in order to do it's powerful master's bidding.
-
5774 (where the heck did this number come from anyway?)
Some complex Babylonian and medieval Jewish calculations, lol. :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Anno_Mundi_.28AM.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar#Anno_Mundi_.28AM.29)
-
There is no 'prehistoric' concept about it, it is merely a Dragon reanimated as a "golem" in order to do it's powerful master's bidding.
Except the whole thing about that word popping up in its in-game bestiary entry.
"This massive creature, a remnant of the pre-historic past, died long before the Necromancers came to this land and was buried under tons of rock, eventually becoming a fossil."
And why is this theory a discussion? Same reason the rest of Lords was/is. Personal preferences getting stepped on. I just missed the initial train, so I have to board where I can.
And Babylonian mathematical formulas. Those things are the most headache of fun I've ever done in maths.
-
Maybe the necromancers were the first to bring literacy and so anything that died before them was prehistoric. "Prehistoric" doesn't mean before humans, it means before written records.
But the whole abyss thing makes me scratch my head.
-
And who says there weren't Dragons in prehistory? The thunder-lizards aside. Most scientists agree that at best the fossil record represents about 2% of all actual species that lived. So maybe there were at some point in prehistory actual creatures that resembled dragons. Also take into account that the term prehistory encompasses 99.999999999% of all time since the big bang. Even the existence of humans on earth isn't even a blip on the timeline, let alone mere history.
-
And who says there weren't Dragons in prehistory? The thunder-lizards aside. Most scientists agree that at best the fossil record represents about 2% of all actual species that lived.
I watched a program on discovery channel a while back. It was narrated by Patrick Stewart and the show was about the possibilities of Dragons actually existing in Earth's pre-history. It was very interesting and it was also cool to see a Dragon go up against a T-Rex. But in the end the T-Rex lost due to the Dragon's breath weapon. Yeah, fire wins all arguments. However to me, fire as a breath weapon seems fairly unrealistic in the biological scale. An acid-spitting Dragon on the other hand is very realistic. Wouldn't want to get caught up in that mess.
-
You should read "On a Pale Horse" of the Incarnation of Immortality Series by Piers Anthony. I like the way they mention fire breathing of dragons in it a lot. It's not an instant wake up and flames all over. It's something they build up.
-
I can't remember who had it... maybe it was Discovery Channel's special on dragons, but there was the theory that dragons spew some sort of liquid chemical that could combust at particular temperatures, or that they could belch some gas with a low ignition point. There was some biological science to the possibility of breathing fire or something, but I think they may have come to the conclusion that it would have been more of a deterrent than an actual threat, kinda like flaps of skin that expand when stressed.
-
I think that was the same program I saw. I remember them explaining the science of a biological organism being able to breath fire.