Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: olrox2 on September 08, 2013, 02:03:45 AM
-
Hello, i am new here, i discovered the website because it was on first answer on Google when i googled castlevania forum(for the first time since before first answer was a website in my country).
I have played lots of Castlevania, almost all the old Platform games, the gba games, the psx and PS2 games, i am only missing the ds games which i may buy one day at the same time as a Nintendo 3DS.
I have checked informations stating Lords of Shadow has a new timeline (which is true since his story happens in the same century as Leon, they cant have lived at the same era)
I wanted to know if the classic timeline would be used again when Lords of Shadow is over, or if they will build a third timeline. I like the idea of a huge timeline, because it means you can say, ten years ago i played that game, and now this new one is about the conséquences of that episode-a prequel,etc.
-
Nobody knows for sure. Maybe, maybe not.
-
The LoS games have given the Castlevania games enough popularity to get the mainstreamers to play SoTN and other Castlevania Titles...
If the LoSverse could be added to, I'm sure Konami would jump on that first....
on the other hand, more people have played games from the old time-line giving a whole new opportunity to add to it.
But I would think it would be best to give the old timeline the New 52 treatment with a semi-reboot, changing enough of the story to add or redo games without changing it completely
-
At the moment, it seems very unlikely. Those who jumped on board when LoS started don't know much or care about the original canon.
As for Konami? Well, they have neglected Castlevania for so long. I don't think LoS is going to make them rethink their attitude. Original fans are the one who care about finishing the story and they're not "economically viable".
The only one who could have a personal interest in concluding the original timeline, is IGA. And he's not working on CV anymore.
-
First of all, welcome to the dungeon! :)
As for your question, the answer depends on Konami.
I personally want to return to the old timeline just for the 1999 game.
I don't know if the LoS saga can have any more additions. I really prefer it to be a trilogy.
Konami might allow another reboot of the original timeline if they choose another developer to have their take on Castlevania.
-
I don't think so. Konami doesn't care about CV, and even less about life-long fans.
Chances are we'll be seeing a new reboot by a new team, so that Konami can collect the money without doing nothing.
We can always hope for a Kickstarter by Iga.
-
I knew Castlevania wasnt a "best-seller" licence but i had always seen it as a solid series of game( for me its one of the only konami games i keep following with interest having given up any kind of hope for silent hill, and being less interested in MGS than before).
I know letting a studio make the game is supposed to reduce costs, but i feel it may be better if companies like Konami or Capcom developed once again their games by themselves.
-
I'm hoping they come back to it eventually. It looks to me like LoS is pretty much a closed thing with 2 as an end and I hope they don't continue it beyond that. The series had been a fairly uninspired zombie for a while (as much as I enjoyed PoR and OoE they didn't really deviate heavily from the "safe" things we came to expect from Metroidvania) and LoS is just a different kind of uninspired.
I want a 1999 game. Julius is too cool to leave him by the wayside and forget he exists. And at the same time I'd kind of like to see the series returned to its roots, with the enemies drawn primarily from gothic horror rather than mythology or random other things (Ninja maids gotta go). I'd like to see it stripped of some of the things that have made the post SoTN games so safe and cozy. I want Castlevania to be spooky and dangerous again, but I doubt that's gonna happen.
-
Lords of Shadow is done after LoS2. Get over it, guys. :P
Anyway, a while back, someone leaked a (supposed) email with an MercurySteam employee, which revealed something interesting. Sometime after or during the development of the first Lords of Shadow there talks about how they handle the continuity in the series. At first they were considering either letting Lords of Shadow taking over the continuity entirely or constantly switching between the old continuity and the reboot canon. Eventually, it was decided that Castlevania wouldn't have one definite history anymore, just like Final Fantasy.
I'm going to assume it's true for the sake of the discussion. I agree with A-Yty that only IGA would want to continue the old storyline because it's his story and he is the one who created it. However, I have a feeling he will be back. Contrary to what many people say, he was never taken of the Castlevania series because of Lords of Shadow. The only reason exists in the first place is because IGA cancelled his next 3D attempt (all of this is straight from Cox's mouth). So, I think there's a solid chance he will be back.
However, I also think there most likely will be stories in other continuities produced alongside his games. Especially after 2009 and onwards, there has been a boom in AU games, with the Arcade, the Pachislot games, and possibily Adventure Rebirth, too.
-
it's his story and he is the one who created it.
I'm not sure I'd express it like this (nor would IGA, probably) but he definitely has contributed to the story more than any single person. However, he also respects and has taken into consideration the storylines made by people before him. This hasn't always worked to his advantage. For example I love Bloodlines, but forcing Stoker's actual story to CV canon instead of using it as an inspiration doesn't work well. Maybe in gaiden, but that's about it.
My hope is that he will be involved in the Demon Castle War game, but he should not handle it alone. He would need help with writing the story and gameplay decisions and such. And I doubt he would disagree with this (I think he himself has stated he doesn't think he could live up to the expectations placed on DCW). But he is experienced and he cares about the canon. Even if he hasn't always done well, he has certainly tried to keep the whole 25+ flustercuck of a canon together.
How do you guys feel about the possibility of CV canon turning into a recurring story without that much of a history? My opinion is: it may appear to have benefits over trying to keep a fairly simple setting together, but that opinion may be affected by how the original CV premise has been represented over the years.
Tl;dr: I think the FF way would not be my kind of CV, because it hasn't really been shown that an actual history isn't necessary.
-
The general consensus so far places LoS as an alternate and completely separate timeline with regards to the original chronology. In part because of the way it was presented and constructed, I can't see the Shadow universe being as heavily exploited as the original continuity has been over the years.
It's very probable that Konami will return to the "classic" timeline at one moment or another; but once it does, I'm fairly certain that it won't remain there for very long. A few reasons why:
- The LoS series is too sprawled out and unfocused for its chronology to become a useful template for future games. MercurySteam has run through a millennium in the space of three games; LoS2 is clearly intended to bring closure to a timeline which never intended to supplant the classic continuity.
- MercurySteam will be leaving Castlevania after LoS2; it is difficult to imagine its trademark universe being extended by a different developer.
- The style of LoS is considerably different from that of previous Castlevania games; future games in that timeline would be expected to follow the same formula, something which isn't very viable as a single track for later titles.
- Having two principal timelines would be far too chaotic for a series whose chronology is already haphazardly kept together.
- DCW is too good of an opportunity for Konami to pass up, especially since the series is running out of space.
- Konami might feel the need to clean up its existing timeline -- resolve inconsistencies, explain plot holes. It might also eventually need a viable closure for the canon timeline (again, DCW?). And it will need closure.
- The original continuity is too dense, too crowded, too confused -- after (and if) it returns to it, Konami will be forced to leave it at a later time.
How do you guys feel about the possibility of CV canon turning into a recurring story without that much of a history?
- This seems to be the only option in the long run. Castlevania will keep its vampire-hunting essence but will be freed of the constraints of a consistent history. I'm not suggesting a FF parallel, but it seems the only option is a slight shift from a stiff chronological continuity to more of a "spiritual" continuity.
-
I don't agree, because in my opinion it's the storyline being relatively low in CV teams' priorities that makes it seem like the advancing continuity itself is the issue.
I mean, would it make it any better if it's basically the same thing, but without the possibility of referring to previous events? I feel it would make it kind of shallow. To me, moments like Richter talking about Trevor or Alucard referring to DC are cool. The story may feel thin, but I can't say it's not part of CV's charm. It's mainly because the CV storyline didn't conform to modern video game storytelling as much as many others have that makes it seem antiquated or in need of a complete change.
If the continuity would be fleshed out better in the next reboot, I think it would be a better alternative to FF-styled, self-contained settings. I'm not an FF fan, but can some FF fan honestly say that the series hasn't gotten incredibly stale - despite being free of the constraints of continuity?
-
I don't think so. Konami doesn't care about CV, and even less about life-long fans.
I actually think Konami care a lot about Castlevania. Out of all Konami franchises (not counting DDR) it's the one with the most entries. In fact, I think Konami was getting increasingly frustrated that one of their beloved flagship series didn't sell as much as they wanted to. But it's clearly their own fault, not giving developers bigger budgets and not doing proper marketing.
Maybe they were relying too much on critical acclaim (something Castlevania has had a lot of.) thinking the games would keep selling themselves without much effort. It's like they were thinking: "Wow! Our GBA/DS games gets pretty great scores! Let's make the same game over and over!" (And I'm a huge fan of those games, but even I realize that they are incredibly similar. No wonder the fascination wore off.)
I do however agree that the "life-long fan" thing is not something Konami care that much about. I honestly don't think they care about storylines like the players do - it's more of a necessary evil to them. So, no. I too doubt we'll ever see a return to the original timeline.
But still; Lords of Shadow is proof for me that - regardless of the quality of those games - Konami do care about Castlevania. They're willing to go out of their way to make Castlevania popular again. Personally, I think they're doing it wrong. But that's from a gamers perspective, not a business one. And it's all about da money for them!
-
I don't agree, because in my opinion it's the storyline being relatively low in CV teams' priorities that makes it seem like the advancing continuity itself is the issue.
I mean, would it make it any better if it's basically the same thing, but without the possibility of referring to previous events? I feel it would make it kind of shallow. To me, moments like Richter talking about Trevor or Alucard referring to DC are cool. The story may feel thin, but I can't say it's not part of CV's charm. It's mainly because the CV storyline didn't conform to modern video game storytelling as much as many others have that makes it seem antiquated or in need of a complete change.
If the continuity would be fleshed out better in the next reboot, I think it would be a better alternative to FF-styled, self-contained settings. I'm not an FF fan, but can some FF fan honestly say that the series hasn't gotten incredibly stale - despite being free of the constraints of continuity?
Storytelling never was Castlevania's strong suit, nor was it ever its greatest priority; we can all agree on that.
I wasn't saying that the isolated, self-contained settings of Final Fantasy and the like would function any better in Castlevania than a more traditional chronology. And I certainly hope the CV continuity isn't anywhere near antiquated.
But here's my point: a game, by definition, needs a plot to drive it forward. All canon Castlevania titles we've seen have been situated in relatively precise points of the same same chronology; as such, they are all consistent with each other. Yet there is little space left in the timeline; Konami will inevitably have to look elsewhere to situate its future games.
How can it do that? It could introduce a new, entirely separate timeline -- which they did for LoS. But this timeline must be considered "alternate" to avoid further confusing the CV continuity; it means that it cannot be exploited as heavily as the original timeline. Otherwise, Konami must, in a sense, detach Castlevania from any fixed chronology to create similar but self-sufficient games which can resemble each other only in spirit. I'm not saying it's any better; in fact, it would wear off a considerable part of Castlevania's charm. But there aren't so many other alternatives.
For the sake of it, here's a third. Konami could change the family, change the vampire, and start over again. That's quite possible. But, again, the series would lose a great deal by doing so.
I don't see many other possibilities. Any ideas?
-
@nagumo
I would be very surprised if Konami brought IGA back after how much better sales of the current Castlevania games have been in contrast to IGA's latest efforts.
They are in the business to make money.
I think a new developer is almost a sure thing. We've already heard rumors about this. I also think a new timeline is likely. Or perhaps a game that isn't as focused on that, like Cv4.
-
I'm certainly not opposed to new blood coming in and making the game. I get the feeling WayForward would love making a 2D Castlevania game.
-
Beside the story telling aspect, i liked the idea of characters sharing something. I mean its not i cant bear changing but i cant see a castlevania the same way as i would see a final fantasy.
And about ff i realized despite the "new story and world for each episode" part, i ended up getting bored(it must have happened when i finished 12)
My fear is that a specific way of making a castlevania game ends fading completely.
Metroidvania games were once blamed for having a save system and being too easy. But they ask you to move in a whole castle, to come back at some places, explore a bit.
Maybe Metroidvania cant reach a large audience the same way the next shooter will and i am afraid Konami tries to make the game "smoother".
Symphony of the Night is popular partly because it offers much content,i am not sure i never got all items of the game. And i must say its because of Sotn that i wanted to play Rondo of Blood, i liked the idea of a link between two épisodes.
Even thought a lot of games are not story centered, fans often have an interest for timeline: Diablo,Starcraft, Zelda...
Offtopic: What is good sales on a portable console? Sales for ds épisodes seem to stick around0,3-0,4k, but Donkey Kong barely does better.
-
But here's my point: a game, by definition, needs a plot to drive it forward. All canon Castlevania titles we've seen have been situated in relatively precise points of the same same chronology; as such, they are all consistent with each other. Yet there is little space left in the timeline; Konami will inevitably have to look elsewhere to situate its future games.
Well, it took this long to fill the timeline (and it's not really even full yet). I don't think there's a need to think that far ahead (I'm not sure if I believe CV going on for 54 years is plausible..?). Besides, the pace of new CVs getting published has been fairly fast. I wouldn't expect them to spring out a new CV at that speed in the hypothetical new canon. In fact, it is something I hope that they avoid if they reboot and choose an actual timeline instead of a non-chronological setting. I would rather play one spectacular CV game for three years than play a mediocre one every year. I think replay value has made SotN the holy grail it is and that such value has not been reached again, may be why it is sometimes considered an unreachable pinnacle (for the record, I don't agree with this and despite SotN being an awesome game, I'm fully confident it could be surpassed).
There's a possibility it may even aggravate the issue if they ditch causality completely. Like has been mentioned, it couldn't mask other possible shortcomings in the areas that are often considered far more important to CV than story. It may enable worse bait and switching in the style of LoS and make any CV henceworth (not just LoS) a hollow shell.
Or it could make employing CV's core elements work better. Maybe it would be good. To me, however, it would be more like a premeditated, never-ending process of throwing things on the wall and seeing what sticks. With the justification of not having to have a history. Kind of like a free pass to go nuts as long as you wear certain clothes. Sooner or later, I think it would face a similar problem as a filling timeline. I mean, we can get rid of the vampire hunter clan, but can we really drop "Dracula" and "castle" from a series that began as "Demon Castle Dracula"? And if we can't, how much can be altered from that formula and would that require a timeless setting?
To me, at least, it seems, the story does matter. Or causality/history, at least.
-
Will the old timeline be revisited? IMO, there is a sleight chance. It's more likely that another team will be given the CV reins and reboot the series again. The old timeline only has a couple spaces that would make sense to fill: 1) post SotN/why the Belmonts can't use the whip until 1999, 2) the 1999 event. Other than that, I don't really see anything that could be added to the old timeline and contribute to it as well.
Truth be told, I like the idea of different teams creating their own vision of CV. I'm not saying make one game and then move on. I'm saying create a short, story-driven saga distributed over 3-5 games. Afterward, the reins of CV would be given to another team who would like a chance to make a CV series.
I mean so long as these sagas are story-driven, have great gameplay, and have core CV concepts like the 5 sub weapons, Belmont family with whip, Alucard, a demonic castle, and Dracula (without any of them being just a hollow name drop like in LoS), there should little for fans to complain about.
-
Just a random thought that comes from reading too many DC comicbooks, but what if they had an in-story way to reboot the timeline?
The story for Judgement involved time travel, so maybe we could expand on that somewhat. Suppose Galamoth has been manipulating history in order to finally defeat Dracula. The other continuities could even bee acknowledged as previous failed attempts to rewrite things in his favor.
-
Just a random thought that comes from reading too many DC comicbooks, but what if they had an in-story way to reboot the timeline?
The story for Judgement involved time travel, so maybe we could expand on that somewhat. Suppose Galamoth has been manipulating history in order to finally defeat Dracula. The other continuities could even bee acknowledged as previous failed attempts to rewrite things in his favor.
Indeed (and that bit about time travel messing things up is what I've been thinking often, too). And rebooting through the story itself is how I would go about it if I was writing it.
Maybe IGA had this in mind in CoD. He acknowledged the cluttered continuity and introducing St. Germain opens up possibilities.
The thing about the whole idea is that time travel is a very fragile plot device. Not saying it shouldn't be used, but it has been used so many times and it can slip into deus ex machina territory easily.
-
Anything involving time travel in castlevania makes me want to vomit.
The best thing a new developer could do at this point is what mercury steam should have done and that is to do a remake of Cv1. This is almost like doing a reboot, but not really. Or they could remake Cv3 and start a new version of the game from that point.
Another complete reboot so soon after LOS will create confusion.
But I'm open minded and up for whatever happens. That is of course unless it includes something as ridiculous as time travel.
-
Here's my own idea: maybe we can have a Castlevania game without Dracula proper. The greater Castlevania universe, after all, seems to have other vampires and unholy creatures of the night throughout Europe. There's a lot that could be done with characters we've already seen. What does Olrox do when he's not crashing at Dracula's? Elizabeth Bartley's apparently got at least one Castle. The Belmonts are vampire hunters best known for their epic spat with Dracula, but why not see them and their associates (i.e the Belnades, Morris, Graves, Schneiders, etc) fighting OTHER vampires or somesuch?
-
I agree with A-Yty that only IGA would want to continue the old storyline because it's his story and he is the one who created it.
IGA did not create the story nor is it his. He merely continued what others had started or else he would have done his own CV timeline without including the original games that he never made. At this point I have my doubts if Konami will continue with the old timeline. And I'm fairly certain that LoS will not continue after LoS2 is released.
Here's my own idea: maybe we can have a Castlevania game without Dracula proper. The greater Castlevania universe, after all, seems to have other vampires and unholy creatures of the night throughout Europe. There's a lot that could be done with characters we've already seen. What does Olrox do when he's not crashing at Dracula's? Elizabeth Bartley's apparently got at least one Castle. The Belmonts are vampire hunters best known for their epic spat with Dracula, but why not see them and their associates (i.e the Belnades, Morris, Graves, Schneiders, etc) fighting OTHER vampires or somesuch?
There is definitely lots of room for many Castlevania Gaidens (side stories). Just how many Belmont descendants are there, And how many different branches came from the main family line? Lots. And the same is true for potential villains. Lots of other infamous vampires and monsters that the CV universe has yet to touch upon.
-
IGA did not create the story nor is it his. He merely continued what others had started or else he would have done his own CV timeline without including the original games that he never made.
I already thought this would hit a sore spot with some, heh. Personally, I think IGA created the storyline in the sense that he unified games that were never supposed to be linked (CVA and CV3 etc.), and actually tried to let it stay consistent afterwards.
I'm surpised some people are saying "I can't see Castlevania being like Final Fantasy", but before 1997, that's exactly what it was. I'm not sure if everyone read the "Akumajo Densetsu fan interview" thread, but something that became evident of it, despite being disputed by some, what that CV3 and CVA were both mutually exclusive games that both were the definite prequel to CV1. Also, there's no way CV4, Haunted Castle, Vampire Killer etc. were ever supposed to be in the same continuity. This was just something IGA came up with after the fact.
If the series would go into "not caring about continuity mode", it would revert back into it's natural state.
I'm perfectly fine with gaming series that have one unified continuity, but that's not what the developers want. Otherwise, we never would have gotten Circle of the Moon, The Arcade, the Pachislots, Lords of Shadow, CV4 when we already had CV1, Adventure Rebirth when we already The Adventure, etc., etc.
I also disagree more that one continuity would mean no sense of history. It can still be done. Shin Megami Tensei for example, has several sub-series that one their own already created decently fleshed-out worlds (Devil Summoner, Persona), but also connects everything on a meta-level in a subtle, but interesting way. Every world is connected through the Amala network, and events in one world can affect another. Not that Castlevania would need that much of a connection between continuities, but sometimes small references here and there and a few cameos do the trick. Heck, Final Fantasy itself even has the Void which links each game's world together, and Gilgamesh, who is basically Mr. Continuity Nod.
[/rambling]
-
Anything involving time travel in castlevania makes me want to vomit.
You accept mythology and magic, even time stop and time rewinding magic, but can't accept time travel?
(http://boroarts.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/willy-wonka-wilder-300x300.jpg)
-
You accept mythology and magic, even time stop and time rewinding magic, but can't accept time travel?
(http://boroarts.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/willy-wonka-wilder-300x300.jpg)
I mean, if you go with the idea that any sufficiently advanced form of technology looks like magic, then technically a lot of the magic could theoretically exist.
Time travel, on the other hand, straight up couldn't.
I also want to make it known that I think time travel is a stupid plot device myself.
-
I mean, if you go with the idea that any sufficiently advanced form of technology looks like magic, then technically a lot of the magic could theoretically exist.
Time travel, on the other hand, straight up couldn't.
I also want to make it known that I think time travel is a stupid plot device myself.
Who said that only technology can make time travel possible? Its true in our world, because magic isnt acessible here, but in a world with magic you dont need a device to walk through time.
Death is a major example, time cant stop him from reaching a place or someone, nor can restrain his moves.
I understand that time travel can very easily be done wrong in a game, but if you think at everything carefully before doing it, it can be done right. You just cant forget about any detail, even if it seems little or insignificant.
-
Who said that only technology can make time travel possible? Its true in our world, because magic isnt acessible here, but in a world with magic you dont need a device to walk through time.
Death is a major example, time cant stop him from reaching a place or someone, nor can restrain his moves.
I understand that time travel can very easily be done wrong in a game, but if you think at everything carefully before doing it, it can be done right. You just cant forget about any detail, even if it seems little or insignificant.
I think you missed my point.
I was trying to say that in my experience, people are far more accepting of magic that could have some sort of scientific explanation. Time travel doesn't have any real way to explain it, and causes too many paradoxes even when properly explained.
-
I was trying to say that in my experience, people are far more accepting of magic that could have some sort of scientific explanation.
You must lead a sheltered and dull life.
I have never in my life heard anyone say "Well, I know it's magic, but how does it technically work in the scientific sense?"
And if they did say that, I would tel them "It works by being magic. Abracadabra, presto-change-o, and Bibbidy bobbedy boo, it works."
-
I mean, if you go with the idea that any sufficiently advanced form of technology looks like magic, then technically a lot of the magic could theoretically exist.
Time travel, on the other hand, straight up couldn't.
I also want to make it known that I think time travel is a stupid plot device myself.
According to our current understanding of the universe, but this might change at some point. It wouldn't be the first time something that had seemed scientifically impossible turned out to be doable. Personally I think time travel can be a good plot device in the right hands, but most of the time you see it it's being abused by lazy writers. Besides, we've already seen time travel in the series via the castle's anachronistic tendencies as a "creature of chaos".
You must lead a sheltered and dull life.
I have never in my life heard anyone say "Well, I know it's magic, but how does it technically work in the scientific sense?"
And if they did say that, I would tel them "It works by being magic. Abracadabra, presto-change-o, and Bibbidy bobbedy boo, it works."
I believe the vernacular expression is "It's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit."
-
@e105beta: Yeah, I totally missed your point, now I understand what you meant. But even so, its exactly because its not explained that it is magic.
The principle of magic is: I did it, I doesnt need to explain how, its magic. You dont believe it? So try to deny it if you can.
Since normal logic doesnt apply for Castlevania and magic exist in this world, you cant deny it. They can even make transform the moon into a giant coconut if they want. :P
-
But here's my point: a game, by definition, needs a plot to drive it forward
Pacman was renown for it's deep intricate plot.
also, GAME (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/game)
Dunno man, I'm not seeing "plot" anywhere in the definition of "Game".
You are thinking "Movie" or "Novel". "Game" can and often does, work independently of plot.
-
I still hate time travel... >:(
-
I think that we're going to be stuck with reboots and new timelines. I'm doubtful that Konami will want to return to the "Real" timeline after Lord of Shadows 2. I don't think that Konami wants to be bogged down by continuity. Game companies care more about money then about their fans.
-
first time I have seen someone try to apply some scientific reasoning to magic of all things........
Anyway regarding the topic at hand, I think there is a chance that they will go back to the old canon, but only briefly to let IGA finish it out with the 1999 game.
-
I think that we're going to be stuck with reboots and new timelines. I'm doubtful that Konami will want to return to the "Real" timeline after Lord of Shadows 2. I don't think that Konami wants to be bogged down by continuity. Game companies care more about money then about their fans.
"Real" timeline? I think you mean IGA's timeline.
-
You must lead a sheltered and dull life.
You're right. I live in Stepford and have never set foot into the real world.
According to our current understanding of the universe, but this might change at some point. It wouldn't be the first time something that had seemed scientifically impossible turned out to be doable. Personally I think time travel can be a good plot device in the right hands, but most of the time you see it it's being abused by lazy writers. Besides, we've already seen time travel in the series via the castle's anachronistic tendencies as a "creature of chaos".
It maybe might change someday, but due to the 1st law of thermodynamics and the cause-and-effect paradox, I would bet all the money I'll ever make that reverse time travel will never happen. The only way you could theoretically do it is to go "outside" time which would require leaving the universe which clearly has it's own issues. But I'm not really here to discuss the possibility of time travel...
The only example I've really ever seen of time travel done well is Back to the Future, mostly because...well...no, it had its issues, it's just the movie was well written regardless. In most shows that have time-travel, the time-traveling tends to be the "jump the shark" moment.
I feel like any type of time travel in Castlevania would ultimately end up being used to explain alternate timelines, or artificially extend the timeline, which IMO, is a textbook example of bad time travel. Just use the multiverse if you're going to do that.
@e105beta: Yeah, I totally missed your point, now I understand what you meant. But even so, its exactly because its not explained that it is magic.
The principle of magic is: I did it, I doesnt need to explain how, its magic. You dont believe it? So try to deny it if you can.
Since normal logic doesnt apply for Castlevania and magic exist in this world, you cant deny it. They can even make transform the moon into a giant coconut if they want. :P
I find that attitude tends to lead to huge plot holes. Sure, you don't have to explain it, but acting like readers/gamers/moviegoers just accept how things are because "hey magic" definitely isn't the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But on topic, I hope they make a 1999 game, and I'm sure if they do IGA will be heading it, but I don't think the old timeline is going to go back to being the "main" timeline of the series.
I'd be up for Castlevania to become a series of stints, where different developers come in and make trilogies and short series of games, but I'm not sure if I'd like for Castlevania to go the Final Fantasy route, where every game is a completely unique universe.
-
@nagumo
I would be very surprised if Konami brought IGA back after how much better sales of the current Castlevania games have been in contrast to IGA's latest efforts.
They are in the business to make money.
I think a new developer is almost a sure thing. We've already heard rumors about this. I also think a new timeline is likely. Or perhaps a game that isn't as focused on that, like Cv4.
Well, its only natural. Cox is a talented guy, but its not only his talent that brought all this attention to LoS. We must remember that if you involve Hideo Kojima in something a great amount of people will buy it, also they have a much higher budget than IGA to spend in their projects.
IGA is known for trying to do things in his projects as cheap as possible, but I imagine that if Konami have tried to spend more money in Castlevania games at this time he could have archieved best results. To me he acted like these poor people that tries to survive as they can, creating new techniques that no one ever thought about because they never needed.
Wants a example? When I was a kid and my dad lost his job, we needed to do some "tricks". Since I was a kid I didnt understand our situation very well, but I remember that I wanted to drink Chocolate Milk, my mother went to prepare it as usual only to discover that we didnt had chocolate powder and didnt had money to spend in a market until some days after.
Now what to do in this situation? Let your son notice your actual situation? No! She found some chocolate bars, grated it and so we had chocolate powder again. This can sound simplistic and stupid for some of you, but if someday you need to do that, you will know how it feels.
-
You know that there might be a reason that his games were never given a higher budget.
-
You know that there might be a reason that his games were never given a higher budget.
Example please?
-
Perhaps they just weren't selling as well, so they kept giving him smaller budgets. I mean, his first actually new game after the CV1 remake Chronicles, what did he do? Copypaste wholesale from SoTN. SoTN can get away with using Rondo assets. It's a direct sequel to Rondo. every game after though? Eh. HoD had strange choices and results, which probably did not act favorably as far as impressions go.
That includes Juste's design.
-
Sales are all that matters.
I think HoD resulted the way it is due to the complaints of bad backlighting of the GBA. But with the improved versions of the GBA, the uber colorful aspects of HoD is exposed.
I am one of the few who likes Juste's design.
Anyway, back on topic, the 1999 game can also explain why it is only then that the whip is back in the hands of the Belmonts. If they are after a 2 in one story that more or less answers our 2 big questions: what happened in 1999 and why the Belmonts can't use the whip before.
-
Well, its only natural. Cox is a talented guy, but its not only his talent that brought all this attention to LoS. We must remember that if you involve Hideo Kojima in something a great amount of people will buy it, also they have a much higher budget than IGA to spend in their projects.
IGA is known for trying to do things in his projects as cheap as possible, but I imagine that if Konami have tried to spend more money in Castlevania games at this time he could have archieved best results. To me he acted like these poor people that tries to survive as they can, creating new techniques that no one ever thought about because they never needed.
Wants a example? When I was a kid and my dad lost his job, we needed to do some "tricks". Since I was a kid I didnt understand our situation very well, but I remember that I wanted to drink Chocolate Milk, my mother went to prepare it as usual only to discover that we didnt had chocolate powder and didnt had money to spend in a market until some days after.
Now what to do in this situation? Let your son notice your actual situation? No! She found some chocolate bars, grated it and so we had chocolate powder again. This can sound simplistic and stupid for some of you, but if someday you need to do that, you will know how it feels.
You approach a lot, following your example, now have much chocolate (sorry for PES is not working as wanted) but the rest are doing very well. The future of the old castlevania is guaranteed because of the portable consoles and mobiles (another thing is the history that use it). But the final decision in the games A+++ depends on who will be the replacement for Dave Cox.
Years ago Konami would put aside the Dave Cox for the poor performance of the franchise, decided to go to desperate for something different, they looked to Western audiences (the generic) to increase sales, regardless of anything else.
Cox saved the situation but now he wants to leave for pride, although there is nothing that more power and more money to fix. If Cox leaves the franchise eventually will have to choose a new producer, there's the future of the series. If the new producer is Japanese or Western. If a Japanese is likely to return IGA, LOS in Japan is not well understood (not surprisingly), if is a Westerner producer no will be surprises, continue with actual work, anyone who is new to his position don´t risk.
The only thing certain is that Konami now has money and wants to invest in the franchise. but want to return to risk?
Off-Topic:
-----------------
Playing now Torchlight 2, fuck, I'd like these improvements in future 2D Castlevania:
- Many more items and Statistics (more RPG feeling like SOTN)
- But that maps the castle etc. .. are generated randomly (as in the Action-RPG). All the map and enemies are rebuilt to return to the game but are kept saved points.
- Include dropping random items (minus the essential elements to continue the story)
- Find deputy groups around the map with superior dropero random skills.
- Include items of raw materials (such as leather, metal, jewelry) to have a crafting and improve your equipacion.
- Ability to hire or having peers with different abilities.
If you add all that style of play, music and castlevia 2D graphics have a great game (many items are already included in SOTN slightly).
Writing these lines I remembered a game from my childhood. "Magic Sword" 1990 Capcom - SNES.
http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Sword (http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Sword)
Classic Game Room - MAGIC SWORD review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3NR7aV0pU#ws)
-
Writing these lines I remembered a game from my childhood. "Magic Sword" 1990 Capcom - SNES.
Magic Sword was (and still is) magnificent. Truly a game that every Castlevania fan should try and play if they haven't already. Collision detection is harsh at times, but replay value is immense due to a lot of the random drops, variety, and shortness of each level. I never did play 2-player co-op mode . . . SNES version didn't have it :(
-
Perhaps they just weren't selling as well, so they kept giving him smaller budgets. I mean, his first actually new game after the CV1 remake Chronicles, what did he do? Copypaste wholesale from SoTN.
Uh it was said before and afterwards in the Nintendo Power interview that HoD was simply a way to port SotN onto a handheld but done from the ground up instead of down scaling SotN. Also if HoD sold poorly they wouldn't have green lit 9 other games.
-
I guess it also helps that HoD's team was....SotN's team as confirmed in the Chronicles interview.
Also if lackluster sales mean a reduced budget then by your logic lords 2 is going to have a reduced budget since MoF sold less than any of the DS games.
-
IGA doesn't have a small budget. He acknowledged every Castlevania has an above average budget for a Konami game. Can we please stop making stuff up?
-
MOF was developed by a smaller division of mercury steam. Also, the 3ds has sold fewer units than the DS. And LoS is the highest selling castlevania game. So there is that to consider.
-
MOF was developed by a smaller division of mercury steam. Also, the 3ds has sold fewer units than the DS. And LoS is the highest selling castlevania game. So there is that to consider.
well let's be clear, MOF was developed by about 25 people, about 20 of which were quite new to the industry, first game. They were looking for talented people to form it and join the company, because the company's main division working on LOS2 (to be exact not in the game but in the Mercury Engine 2.0 and the new develop tools)
This was the first big error.
Second error was, they tried to do it fast, so no graphic engine developed for the 3DS, took the XBOX360 and the were adapting and reducing until it was playable ..
Third mistake, the graphics engine conditioned the combat system and the visual aspect of the game, when they saw that the game does not see anything wrong with the 3DS decided to make a game similar to the 3DS LOS but we all saw the result, it is bad but is perfectly forgettable.
The worst thing is that it was originally planned to do a 2D game with 2.5D scenarios, it would be simple, so the new group of people would not have many problems, but changed their minds thinking it would be just as easy and emerged thousand problems ..
In summary MoF development itself was a mistake, because they not did the right people, not dedicate enough time and chose bad game characteristics (technology, combat system, etc. ..).
But these things can be learned, this can happen to anyone.
It's like the first two chapters of LOS, there is not a single MS worker now tell you FUCK, that if any had changed something with more action, history and intrigue. They wanted so much mystery, history and advance so slowly that exceeded.
So while LOS2 is as long as LOS1, the feeling is that last twice, because there are no "dead time", any time or scene is important, everything is transcendental to the story, there is much to tell and so little time (even in the tutorial xD, as we saw in the demo).
-
IGA doesn't have a small budget. He acknowledged every Castlevania has an above average budget for a Konami game. Can we please stop making stuff up?
Then why is he so fucking lazy when it comes to assets? We've been seeing the same enemies since Rondo. That shit's unacceptable. I can get copypasting a bat maybe. MAYBE a skeleton. But that's not where it ends. What does he blow that 'above average" budget on that he barely innovates aside from a new gimmick every game?
Uh it was said before and afterwards in the Nintendo Power interview that HoD was simply a way to port SotN onto a handheld but done from the ground up instead of down scaling SotN. Also if HoD sold poorly they wouldn't have green lit 9 other games.
Well it was a poorly done effort. It became an original game, but still copypasted SoTN's assets, and had a protagonist design that was blatantly trying to imitate Alucard. The game did NOT feel like SoTN handheld. It felt original, but it still used reused assets. That was not acceptable. Even compared to the rest of IGA's 2Dvanias which reuse assets and try to be SoTN 2, HoD is PARTICULARLY bad in that respect.
-
I don't think you can really call the assets 'reused' if they've been redrawn.
You wanna talk about Reused? Then look no further than Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin (Ecclesia did it as well but it used more new stuff than old stuff). Now that's that I called reused assets, so in that regard I do agree
Circle, Harmony, and Aria all use new assets. Yes, HoD's assets 'resemble' the Rondo of Blood/SotN ones in style, but they've been all re-drawn and re-sized to match the GBA. A sprite artist had to go and do all of that. It wasn't the 'copypaste' job you seem to be claiming it to be.
-
Well I don't know. I know I see SoTN's save room, for instance, as the most blatant case, though i suppose that WOULD require fine tuning, considering the original was a 3D effect.
-
My point is that it's not a very good example of 'reused assets'.
Dawn/Portrait/Ecclesia, though? Those are good examples (though Dawn and Portrait do it a lot more than Ecclesia does) and I do agree with you in that regard.
-
Redrawn can't be counted as new though. Half of the time it takes to create a sprite goes into design. Redrawing something that has already been designed is akin to tracing. It's half way to being a new sprite. It's still cheap.
-
HoD had SotN ememies in there, they were just scaled down and that is clearly evident when playing the game. Take the spear knights for example. They are exactly the same but have been scaled down. Look at the pixelation and you can clearly see it. They weren't even smoothed out either. Just left as is and they were not even touched upon to smoothen them out for the final product.
Uh it was said before and afterwards in the Nintendo Power interview that HoD was simply a way to port SotN onto a handheld but done from the ground up instead of down scaling SotN. Also if HoD sold poorly they wouldn't have green lit 9 other games.
Well it was a poorly done effort. It became an original game, but still copypasted SoTN's assets, and had a protagonist design that was blatantly trying to imitate Alucard. The game did NOT feel like SoTN handheld. It felt original, but it still used reused assets. That was not acceptable. Even compared to the rest of IGA's 2Dvanias which reuse assets and try to be SoTN 2, HoD is PARTICULARLY bad in that respect.
And this only confirms my stand on Juste being nothing more then an Alucard clone rather then a fully unique Belmont. I mean white hair deathly pale complexion and the glowing blue aura surrounding him. That's all Alucard right there. At least they didn't give him a sword otherwise it would be more of a blatantly lazy effort on their part.
-
Playing now Torchlight 2, fuck, I'd like these improvements in future 2D Castlevania:
- Many more items and Statistics (more RPG feeling like SOTN)
- But that maps the castle etc. .. are generated randomly (as in the Action-RPG). All the map and enemies are rebuilt to return to the game but are kept saved points.
- Include dropping random items (minus the essential elements to continue the story)
- Find deputy groups around the map with superior dropero random skills.
- Include items of raw materials (such as leather, metal, jewelry) to have a crafting and improve your equipacion.
- Ability to hire or having peers with different abilities.
If you add all that style of play, music and castlevia 2D graphics have a great game (many items are already included in SOTN slightly).
I really need to play it if this game is so good like that, I think its the game that I go for free for Steam in a Facebook promotion.
IGA doesn't have a small budget. He acknowledged every Castlevania has an above average budget for a Konami game. Can we please stop making stuff up?
So every Castlevania game had an above average budget, but he said somewhere that he received an average for a Castlevania game? I'll be sincere, I dont remember where this "IGA had a low budget" started, but I know that I've heard it before and thats not a recent thing.
At least they didn't give him a sword otherwise it would be more of a blatantly lazy effort on their part.
Years ago, somewhere in Konami:
IGA: So lets do a SotN for GBA, the main character will be similar to Alucard in appearence, but since he was a Belmont I dont know if we could add a sword to him, Belmonts ever used a whip... Poor thing, I think we will need to scrap that new sword that we designed...
Random guy: What if we add a new character to the story, since we are still working in the gameplay, we can change our story concept. Add a friend that uses a sword as a main weapon, then we can still use it. Maybe he could even be a ninja, like a homage to another similiar game, Ninja Gaiden.
IGA: Someone will be promoted today :D
-
No Lelygax, Torchlight 2 is only a Diablo3 clone (well for me is better than diablo3, like Path of Exile) but some of the elements of the action-rgp will be great in a castlevania game (excect for the combat and the graphics)
-radom maps
-random drop
-random enemys and boss
-some crafting
-companions
-
No Lelygax, Torchlight 2 is only a Diablo3 clone (well for me is better than diablo3, like Path of Exile) but some of the elements of the action-rgp will be great in a castlevania game (excect for the combat and the graphics)
-radom maps
-random drop
-random enemys and boss
-some crafting
-companions
Well, since I dont have Diablo 3, a game that resembles it is welcome too, even so thanks for the tip s. And yeah, these concepts would be cool in a CV game :p
-
In all honesty I wouldn't care if it was continued as long as the 1999 game comes out. However, even that looks very slim.
-
Well, this thread has gotten inflamed rather quickly. At this point, I don't believe we should be worrying about low budgets or reused sprites. As for IGA, you can't blame the poor man for capitalizing on a successful idea.
In any case, here's the crux of the problem:
Konami will need to situate its future Castlevania games. These games will need to be set in a cohesive universe, and bear a decent plot (and I don't care if "plot" doesn't figure in the Merriam-Webster's definition of a game).
So, we must ask: how will we be setting these future titles? Where will we situate them?
Five answers, so far, have come to mind:
- Extend the LoS storyline
- Return to the original timeline
- Change the focus of the series to allow parallel events (e.g. choose a different vampire)
- Add an additional timeline
- Use a chronology-free setting to continue the series
As we have seen, all five possibilities have presented difficulties.
- The original timeline is running out of space (and this isn't in 59 years; it will happen very soon).
- The LoS storyline isn't well adapted to host future games.
- Changing the series' focus would be at the detriment of some of Castlevania's core appeal.
- A chronology-free continuity would make the series feel less cohesive.
- An additional timeline would hopelessly confuse it.
Here to further complicate the matter is the fact that Cox will be leaving after LoS2. We're divided as to the value of his legacy, but we need need to ask ourselves who will replace him. Will Konami turn to Western or Japanese markets? Can we hope for IGA's return, or is the advent of a new developer inevitable?
So here's what we need to know: Are there any other viable options for Castlevania's future? Can Castlevania, in the long run, remain as it is? How can it avoid becoming nothing more than an "empty shell"?
-
And this only confirms my stand on Juste being nothing more then an Alucard clone rather then a fully unique Belmont. I mean white hair deathly pale complexion and the glowing blue red aura surrounding him. That's all Alucard right there. At least they didn't give him a sword otherwise it would be more of a blatantly lazy effort on their part.
and had a protagonist design that was blatantly trying to imitate Alucard.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100813111134/castlevania/images/a/aa/Soma_HD.JPG) ?
Also: (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/beingthehero/protojuste_zps8489cf48.jpg)
Juste was originally designed with brown hair, so he certainly wasn't made with Alucard in mind from the outset.
Simon in Chronicles - (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CVX68K/simon-concept.jpg)
White hair pale protagonists are simply common in Japanese fiction. Any one of us could link a zillion white-haired bishies. Plus Alucard is blonde:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111201035724/castlevania/de/images/d/d8/Alucard_DoS.JPG)
HoD had SotN ememies in there, they were just scaled down and that is clearly evident when playing the game. Take the spear knights for example. They are exactly the same but have been scaled down. Look at the pixelation and you can clearly see it. They weren't even smoothed out either. Just left as is and they were not even touched upon to smoothen them out for the final product.
Wroooooooong. Compare:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/gameboy_advance/cvhod/sheet/8547/ (http://www.spriters-resource.com/gameboy_advance/cvhod/sheet/8547/)
with
http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/5442/ (http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/5442/)
Also most telling: HoD's spear guards can't move their spears down. Nor do they have the march animation. Plus completely different spinning and attack animations, and the fact that in HoD, once a spear guard slashes downwards he immediately spins his spear. The ones in Dracula X/SotN do not, and immediately spin their spears the moment you attack instead of as a finishing attack. All enemies in HoD were made to look like Rondo's, but they are new and not simply resized.
Also again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=auKH9sKOMVs#t=225 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=auKH9sKOMVs#t=225)
Right at 3:40 - Harmony of Dissonance's team was confirmed by IGA himself to be the SotN team with some elements of the Dracula X team. You're accusing SotN's team of ripping themselves off. : /
Nobody ever gives Trevor Belmont any gruff for looking exactly like Simon Belmont...
So many images, unf
-
The only thing we know for sure is that LoS will be ending. And that's good, they started and finished a storyline.
If someone wanted to do the 1999 game, that's great. If they did something entirely new, another timeline, that's great too. At this point, I just want the series to continue in any form. I'll judge the game after it comes out (infos or trailers or whatever).
-
I hope not. I want it to be used as the base for the next one, be "remade" if that's fitting, but never go /back/ with it.
-
The only thing we know for sure is that LoS will be ending. And that's good, they started and finished a storyline.
If someone wanted to do the 1999 game, that's great. If they did something entirely new, another timeline, that's great too. At this point, I just want the series to continue in any form. I'll judge the game after it comes out (infos or trailers or whatever).
I can agree with that sentiment.
I just want more Castlevania in general. I'm personally, open to new ideas and whatnot. I'll judge the gameplay first, everything else second.
-
White hair pale protagonists are simply common in Japanese fiction. Any one of us could link a zillion white-haired bishies. Plus Alucard is blonde:
Sure, but there weren't any in Castlevania prior to Symphony of the Night. Since Symphony was successful there was a point where it was IGA just said "Kojima, draw ALL the white haired bishies! MAKE IT SO!". Saying "oh, but Alucard's actually blonde" is a pretty weak argument. It's an extremely light blonde.
I guess when vampires go to sleep for 200 years they wake up blonder and prettier.
-
Sure, but there weren't any in Castlevania prior to Symphony of the Night. Since Symphony was successful there was a point where it was IGA just said "Kojima, draw ALL the white haired bishies! MAKE IT SO!". Saying "oh, but Alucard's actually blonde" is a pretty weak argument. It's an extremely light blonde.
I guess when vampires go to sleep for 200 years they wake up blonder and prettier.
I'm sure that's not the case. Looks at Gabriel. Alucard would look similar to that when he wakes up. After some time, he can gain a good look again.
-
It's kind of comparing apples to oranges to guess at the effects of vampirism and sleep on what are effectively two separate game series.
-
Sure, but there weren't any in Castlevania prior to Symphony of the Night. Since Symphony was successful there was a point where it was IGA just said "Kojima, draw ALL the white haired bishies! MAKE IT SO!". Saying "oh, but Alucard's actually blonde" is a pretty weak argument. It's an extremely light blonde.
So you say he's blonde but I'm wrong because he's not blonde enough
oh ok
-
(http://castlevania.armster.org/phonecard/phonecard9.jpg)
Not quite the same color.
-
Maybe he is color blind man. =/
-
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/beingthehero/blondeiswhiteright_zps161990d3.jpg)
I mean here they are, side-by-side. Big Al's gold-blonde is nowhere near Juste's silver-white hair, and it's definitely not light enough to be confused with each other.
I'm putting off making some bitchin' paneer over rice to teach colors, so I hope you're all happy. ;_;
-
So what you're saying is that, you don't see ANY pattern in the protagonists of Castlevania games when designed by Ayame Kojima.
-
Where did I say I didn't see any sort of pattern? You went from saying that Alucard's hair is too light to be seen as blonde to patterns.
-
When did I say it was "too light"? I was just pointing out that during Iga/Kojima's tenure there weren't really any main protagonists with dark (or at the very least naturally colored, poor Simon) hair.
-
http://castlevania.armster.org/draculax/artbook02.jpg (http://castlevania.armster.org/draculax/artbook02.jpg) - blonde hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CVX68K/simon.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CVX68K/simon.jpg) - red head hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/HoD/wnc-just.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/HoD/wnc-just.jpg) - white head hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/Aria/somaevil.jpg- (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/Aria/somaevil.jpg-) white head hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/LoI/LamentOfInnocence-Leon.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/LoI/LamentOfInnocence-Leon.jpg) - blonde hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CoD/hector.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/CoD/hector.jpg) - grey head hero
http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/DXC/robchron-richter.jpg (http://www.castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/DXC/robchron-richter.jpg) - brown head hero
Pattern: Ayami Kojima hates people with black hair.
When did I say it was "too light"? I was just pointing out that during Iga/Kojima's tenure there weren't really any main protagonists with dark (or at the very least naturally colored, poor Simon) hair.
Saying "oh, but Alucard's actually blonde" is a pretty weak argument. It's an extremely light blonde.
Have we even had any dark-headed heroes?
I mean, Simon, Sonia, and Christopher were blonde, Trevor, Richter, and John brown-haired, and Nathan Graves white-hair. Everything seems on par for the course post 2001.
-
You are nitpicking at a fucking hair color.
-
Yeah. It's just one of those things you do when you don't have a life. It's a nitpick, but it's one of those little things that bug me, amplified by really hating Simon's redesign in Chronicles. I don't care that Simon doesn't have a consistent hair color, but I can damn well tell you it ain't Kool-Aid red.
Now where are my pizza rolls.
-
Man, I love his Chronicles redesign. ;_;
Though, we actually had a pretty interesting topic on his look a couple years ago.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee35/beingthehero/Rough_05.jpg)
He was initially designed by Kojima as adhering very close to his original look before his radically-designed blue-outfit white hair look before settling on his final appearance.
I also forgot that Shanoa was indeed a raven-beauty, so we've had at least one black-haired hero.
What a fair way to end a debate - we've all ended up as friends.
-
I don't think Shanoa was designed by Kojima though, was she?
Anyway, I grew up with Simon Belmont, and I grew up with the 80's-styled badass Simon. Chronicles in-game renders his hair as pink. For me, Simon is always going to be the buff barbarian from parts unknown.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e_tJ05q_1Qw/UI3ycy7PGzI/AAAAAAAAAcY/AoHE8s74la4/s1600/crack+that+whip.jpg)
-
Alucard is obviously blond, or if you want to be anal, Platinum Blond.
But his hair definitely is not pure white like Juste and Soma's for example.
Seems people just like to find things to shit on IGA and his team about if you ask me.
"Oh looks, copy paste here and there, they all have white hair! the guy is just a laze fest, those Bishonen characters in IGA games just rub me the wrong way etc " :-X
The list could go on.
Pattern: Ayami Kojima hates people with black hair.
Well...Genya Arikado
But to be fair, he was just disguising that lovely blond hair and look of his. :P
-
Hey, I know a char that had black hair with Kojima design (had as in "someday had" lol), try to nitpick about hair with this char now.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080227224051/castlevania/images/f/fa/Hammer.jpg)
-
Alucard is obviously blond, or if you want to be anal, Platinum Blond.
(http://www.linnavaanijat.com/img/hahmot/Al_NES_lehti.png)
-
Pattern: Ayami Kojima hates people with black hair.
She created blacked haired characters for other projects. I think they were novels.
Well...Genya Arikado
But to be fair, he was just disguising that lovely blond hair and look of his. :P
He is still a looker.
-----------------
Anyway, we are done with the hair talk. Please return to topic. :)
-
Some elements in Lords of Shadow seem to refer to Lament of Innocence(or are they mere easter eggs/tributes)?
For example, Both Gabriel and Leon lost their wives, and Gabriel and Mathias Cronqvist also share this tragedy.
In Bernhardt Castle, the dlc boss reminded me of that Boss you could find in LOi, you know, that chained monster.
I Wonder if this is just fan service or if this could be use to make a kind of cross-over with stories of parallel dimensions.
And Rinaldo Gandolfie lost his daughter in both games, so yes, maybe with a bit of work Lords of Shadow timeline could be merged.
-
(http://www.linnavaanijat.com/img/hahmot/Al_NES_lehti.png)
Yea, because obviously that is the alucard we have been talking about here...
-
We're not all talking about the same character?
-
It's the same character interpreted in VERY different ways.
-
Some elements in Lords of Shadow seem to refer to Lament of Innocence(or are they mere easter eggs/tributes)?
For example, Both Gabriel and Leon lost their wives, and Gabriel and Mathias Cronqvist also share this tragedy.
In Bernhardt Castle, the dlc boss reminded me of that Boss you could find in LOi, you know, that chained monster.
I Wonder if this is just fan service or if this could be use to make a kind of cross-over with stories of parallel dimensions.
And Rinaldo Gandolfie lost his daughter in both games, so yes, maybe with a bit of work Lords of Shadow timeline could be merged.
I strongly doubt this is a form of fan service. Rather, it goes to show how uninspired LoS's plot was.
If you haven't noticed:
Gabriel <-> Leon
Gabriel/Dracula <-> Mathias
Zobek <-> Zead
So much for its originality. But I love LoS's story anyhow.
I Wonder if this is just fan service or if this could be use to make a kind of cross-over with stories of parallel dimensions.
And Rinaldo Gandolfie lost his daughter in both games, so yes, maybe with a bit of work Lords of Shadow timeline could be merged.
LoS's "fan service" was ridiculous. Instead of setting an interesting parallel for LoS with Castlevania's lore, Cox chose to arbitrarily throw disjointed names and references into the game. It feel like a poor patching-up effort rather than a something long-time fans could truly enjoy. Need an example? Imagine a blood-crazed vampire general that ended up being called "Brauner". No, he doesn't paint; no, he didn't lose his daughters. He just swings at you with his gory sword.
And Gandolfi? He's consistently alluded to in the LoS, while his game was the very title MercurySteam needed to erase to set LoS. But instead Cox fished him out to make him the Easter bunny for weapon upgrades. And why he bothers to make and hide them is, of course, very poorly explained.
I liked Lords of Shadow; but I'd have liked it better if Cox gave up trying to allude to a heritage he manifestly doesn't want to live up to.
I Wonder if this is just fan service or if this could be use to make a kind of cross-over with stories of parallel dimensions.
And Rinaldo Gandolfie lost his daughter in both games, so yes, maybe with a bit of work Lords of Shadow timeline could be merged.
LoS was never intended as a "parallel dimension" to LoI, nor will it ever become one. It's a separate timeline. So you can safely forget about any crossovers.
And you can definitely put aside the idea of merging the timelines. The LoS saga has written over the stories of so many of the original Castlevania's that putting both together would be impossible. Here's a list of the games that couldn't work with LoS:
CVI, CVII, CVIII (!!!), SCIV, CA, CAII, Chronicles, SoTN, C64, LoD, AoS, DoS, LoI, CoD. And if you extend the logic, you could add PoR and OoE to the list. So that's not an option.
-
In response to Intersection; was it just me or did it seem like the Castlevania elements in LoS were basically an afterthought? I mean, if you changed the character names it could have just been "Lords of Shadow" and it could have passed for a wholly unrelated game.
Therein lies my biggest issue with LoS- it's not the iffy platforming or the crappy camera or the interminable colossus battles- it's the fact that the Castlevania window dressing felt like it was applied in the cutting room at the last minute. It's like they were just going through the script and replacing . "Oh, we got this Werewolf guy- hey, let's call him Cornell!"
-
In response to Intersection; was it just me or did it seem like the Castlevania elements in LoS were basically an afterthought? I mean, if you changed the character names it could have just been "Lords of Shadow" and it could have passed for a wholly unrelated game.
Therein lies my biggest issue with LoS- it's not the iffy platforming or the crappy camera or the interminable colossus battles- it's the fact that the Castlevania window dressing felt like it was applied in the cutting room at the last minute. It's like they were just going through the script and replacing . "Oh, we got this Werewolf guy- hey, let's call him Cornell!"
Yes. Konami felt Castlevania needed a breath of fresh air, and in many ways they was right. But when Cox tried to distance Lords of Shadow from what he knew Castlevania to be, he ended up going too far -- and what you've described is the result. It's rather unfortunate, because LoS, on its own, is a very decent game.
Edit: Now you've reminded me that I need to finish my Lords of Shadow review...
-
In response to Intersection; was it just me or did it seem like the Castlevania elements in LoS were basically an afterthought? I mean, if you changed the character names it could have just been "Lords of Shadow" and it could have passed for a wholly unrelated game.
Therein lies my biggest issue with LoS- it's not the iffy platforming or the crappy camera or the interminable colossus battles- it's the fact that the Castlevania window dressing felt like it was applied in the cutting room at the last minute. It's like they were just going through the script and replacing . "Oh, we got this Werewolf guy- hey, let's call him Cornell!"
I completely agree with the bolded section. I've been saying it for years. If the game didn't have all the name drops and was just called Lords of Shadow, there wouldn't be so much controversy on this forum. It would just be its own series and would probably do perfectly fine without the CV name attached to it. I mean the whole concept of the story is fine. I like the story. It's just the name drops that get in the way of me liking it more. Plus, it confuses a lot of new fans. A few weeks ago, I got in to an argument with someone about Alucard and his origins. All I did was ask which Alucard his was talking about and he got confused and angry as if I was insulting him or something. The fact is that the LoS saga were his first CV games and he knew nothing of the older games and the fact that they belonged to a different timeline.
-
I don't think anyone will argue that Castlevania was getting stale. Iga had great enthusiasm for the series but the fact is the entries were getting pretty uninspired. The series never really found its "Next Big Thing" breakthrough after Symphony. While I didn't really like Lords of Shadow, I can respect that they were trying to do something different. It just didn't turn out to be a different that did anything for me.
I'm still willing to give LoS 2 a chance, though.
-
It's the same character interpreted in VERY different ways.
That's my point. His real hair color can as plausibly be said being dark. [/offtopic]
In response to Intersection; was it just me or did it seem like the Castlevania elements in LoS were basically an afterthought? I mean, if you changed the character names it could have just been "Lords of Shadow" and it could have passed for a wholly unrelated game.
Therein lies my biggest issue with LoS- it's not the iffy platforming or the crappy camera or the interminable colossus battles- it's the fact that the Castlevania window dressing felt like it was applied in the cutting room at the last minute. It's like they were just going through the script and replacing . "Oh, we got this Werewolf guy- hey, let's call him Cornell!"
Indeed. It's not (just) that the CV elements felt largely absent. It's also that what there actually was, felt like it was just slapped on a different thing.
I'm not gonna actually open dat can o' worms, but I'm personally still not convinced LoS was Castlevania from the start. Just sayin'.
-
I don't think anyone will argue that Castlevania was getting stale. Iga had great enthusiasm for the series but the fact is the entries were getting pretty uninspired. The series never really found its "Next Big Thing" breakthrough after Symphony. While I didn't really like Lords of Shadow, I can respect that they were trying to do something different. It just didn't turn out to be a different that did anything for me.
I'm still willing to give LoS 2 a chance, though.
I mean this with respect.
Once we get the current big thing, why would we need the next?
SotN was indeed the big thing in Castlevania, and it was OK for me if they just remade that game over and over with different characters, songs and stages each time.
And it's one thing to try something different (a little different) and other completely different thing to get rid of everything and make a new game with everything new. New look, new music, new design, new storyline, everything.
It's like if Nintendo finally makes a new Metroid, but instead of a Metroid it's just a Zelda, where the princess is named Samus, and instead of a Zelda world it's some random planet in space.
Almost everyone will like it, except Metroid lifelong fans.
And I really don't care if future games take place in the canon timeline or not. I just want them to have the same aesthetic and music, be it from older games and that horror atmosphere, or the newer ones with more anime inclined look.
-
One problem is that Symphony of the Night set the bar pretty high. But another, in my opinion, is that I don't think Metroidvanias were really where Konami wanted the series to head in 1997. I think they were hoping that the Castlevania they'd made for the N64 would be the new dominant style and Symphony would kind of be a high note for the 2D 'Vanias to go out on.
The problem I see with the 3D Castlevanias, though, is that they never stuck to one style long enough to learn from their mistakes and always seemed to be playing catch-up rather than being on the forefront of the genre like they were in the NES days. Looking at the progression of the 2D Castlevanias we can see improvements and new features in every game. I think Castlevania lost a lot of cachet with gaming's mainstream due to its failure to really make the jump to 3D.
And while some people may be find with getting Metroidvania after Metroidvania, by Dawn of Sorrow I was pretty burnt out on them.
-
The N64 games were the route to go for 3D Castlevania games.
They were negligent enough to never be able to see it.
So they had to keep experimenting.
-
Legacy of Darkness showed that the formula could have been perfected. By itself, it's a good game. Same level as Lament of Innocence for me.
-
LoI have some things LoD didn't have, but in terms of gameplay I believe LoD was the best 3D.
-
In terms of gameplay, LoD is a steamy pile of
secre...shit
-
I'd definitely give the gameplay as far as 3.D castlevania goes to Lament of Innocence hands down.
It really exemplified what badazz whip combat should be in my opinion.
But as far as level layout and platforming goes LOD definitely has the clear edge if you ask me.
-
I like it because you have to jump, jump and jump, and you always have to take care of falling and death pits. I find that way more fun than, say, CoD, with all its linear stages. And I love CoD, with its aesthetic look, soundtrack and all innocent devils and collectibles and extras, but it doesn't hold a candle to LoD when it comes to fun gameplay.
-
Its explained why we cant swim in these N64 titles? These waters are poisoned or have something that makes you enable to float?
-
Its explained why we cant swim in these N64 titles? These waters are poisoned or have something that makes you enable to float?
That's one thing I liked. In the other games in which you can't swim, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the water. There is no explanation. At least, the N64 titles explain it.
LoI have some things LoD didn't have, but in terms of gameplay I believe LoD was the best 3D.
I'd definitely give the gameplay as far as 3.D castlevania goes to Lament of Innocence hands down.
It really exemplified what badazz whip combat should be in my opinion.
But as far as level layout and platforming goes LOD definitely has the clear edge if you ask me.
The main issue with the N64 titles is that they came out when 3D games were in there infancy. They came out in 1999. It is now 2013 and look at games today. If the N64 titles were remade with current graphics and controls, they would likely be the pinnacle of modern classicvania. No shimmying. No QTEs. Just platforming, instant death pits, poison rivers that result in instant death, fall damage when you fall from a great height, etc.
-
So thats it, poison rivers? I never knew that. They explain it in-game and how this happened? Well, even if not, it okay, but now Im curious about that.
-
That's because they were all played by otokoyakus.
-
So thats it, poison rivers? I never knew that. They explain it in-game and how this happened? Well, even if not, it okay, but now Im curious about that.
this.
-
Thanks :D
-
Poison rivers is a pretty good explanation. But for several of the heroes I think we could chalk it up pretty practically to armor. Reinhardt, Henry, Simon in 2 and IV, and probably a few other characters wear plate armor (i.e. very heavy steel). As a rule, you can't swim in plate.
-
Trevor and Christopher also wore armor and they sunk link rocks too. You might not think that Trevor wore armor, but he did in CV III's box art and in the instruction books sketches.
http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg (http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg)
I don't consider CoD Trevor to be an accurate portrayal of the character.
-
Maria needs to lose some weight then... :-\
-
Trevor and Christopher also wore armor and they sunk link rocks too. You might not think that Trevor wore armor, but he did in CV III's box art and in the instruction books sketches.
http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg (http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg)
I don't consider CoD Trevor to be an accurate portrayal of the character.
I wasn't sure, so I just listed the ones I knew for certain.
Never played CoD either. I remember I read the back of the box and was like "OK, you've lost me."
-
The main issue with the N64 titles is that they came out when 3D games were in there infancy. They came out in 1999. It is now 2013 and look at games today. If the N64 titles were remade with current graphics and controls, they would likely be the pinnacle of modern classicvania. No shimmying. No QTEs. Just platforming, instant death pits, poison rivers that result in instant death, fall damage when you fall from a great height, etc.
It looks aged, indeed, but it's saved to my eyes because the aesthetic is very CV, and because of emulators and HQ textures allow me to play it "kind of" in HD nowadays.
I kind of hate old 3D, but there's some exceptions. With 3D, to me it seems like when 3D was in its infancy, games were made with great ideas and great gameplay, as when 3D evolved and allowed us to have beautiful graphics instead of giant polygons and primitive textures, it's like developers opted to have shallow gameplay. No more jumping from plaforms to platforms, no more death pits, no more open world...
There's a lot of excellent games today, like Bioshock and The Last Of Us, and MANY JRPG's... but I'm still waiting for that great modern 3D game with beautiful graphics and real platforming.
-
Trevor and Christopher also wore armor and they sunk link rocks too. You might not think that Trevor wore armor, but he did in CV III's box art and in the instruction books sketches.
http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg (http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/games/cv3/images/wallpaper/cv3-005.jpg)
I don't consider CoD Trevor to be an accurate portrayal of the character.
The link doesn't work to me. What do I have to do?
Maria needs to lose some weight then... :-\
Why? Is Maria in the picture?
-
Why? Is Maria in the picture?
Thats why \/
Trevor and Christopher also wore armor and they sunk link rocks too. You might not think that Trevor wore armor, but he did in CV III's box art and in the instruction books sketches.
If they sunk like rocks because of their armor, Maria should be heavy since she doesnt use any, xD
-
I don't know, dresses in the late 18th century would probably be too heavy to swim in, too. I'm not an expert though, and perhaps you actually could use them to glide a la Peach in SMB 2.
-
I bet that ancient dresses women used were as heavy as an armor when they got wet.
-
I bet that ancient dresses women used were as heavy as an armor when they got wet.
Unless its a complete Kimono then I doubt it, armors were much heavier than they appear to be in movies, at least that what I've heard, since I never touched one.
-
Unless its a complete Kimono then I doubt it, armors were much heavier than they appear to be in movies, at least that what I've heard, since I never touched one.
I don't know, have you ever tried to walk in soaked jeans? It doesn't take a whole lot of linen to turn into a total nightmare in regards to movement when enough water is applied. And then there's the off chance that the heroes may not actually know how to swim.
-
but I'm still waiting for that great modern 3D game with beautiful graphics and real platforming.
Try playing Super Mario Galaxy 1 or 2. Gorgeous experience. Brilliant OST's too!
-
Try playing Super Mario Galaxy 1 or 2. Gorgeous experience. Brilliant OST's too!
I already played them, yeah! Emulated, in HD! I love those games! They are one of the most visually bright games I've seen, everything is so shiny and beautiful! And the soundtracks are really nice and charming orchestral works! :)
But sadly, Nintendo is kind of an exception today. We don't see many 3D real platformers.
Unless its a complete Kimono then I doubt it, armors were much heavier than they appear to be in movies, at least that what I've heard, since I never touched one.
I am almost sure that those ancient dresses would have made any woman drown in they fell into the sea. I have one that belonged to my grandmother, and the dress alone seems super heavy if it got wet. Add to that the fact that earlier centuries' dresses used even more layers upon layers of clothing, and with the hats, the heavy underwear and all the layers, I believe it must have been impossible for a human being to swim wearing all that ridicule amount of clothing.
That said, I'd love to make a photoshoot someday wearing some ancient dress, with the hat and everything.
I chose a dress for my graduation that looked like kind of ancient, but it wasn't. I kept imagining I was some aristocrat lady from past centuries, while the other just danced :P
-
I already played them, yeah! Emulated, in HD! I love those games! They are one of the most visually bright games I've seen, everything is so shiny and beautiful! And the soundtracks are really nice and charming orchestral works! :)
But sadly, Nintendo is kind of an exception today. We don't see many 3D real platformers.
I am almost sure that those ancient dresses would have made any woman drown in they fell into the sea. I have one that belonged to my grandmother, and the dress alone seems super heavy if it got wet. Add to that the fact that earlier centuries' dresses used even more layers upon layers of clothing, and with the hats, the heavy underwear and all the layers, I believe it must have been impossible for a human being to swim wearing all that ridicule amount of clothing.
That said, I'd love to make a photoshoot someday wearing some ancient dress, with the hat and everything.
I chose a dress for my graduation that looked like kind of ancient, but it wasn't. I kept imagining I was some aristocrat lady from past centuries, while the other just danced :P
Wait, we've forgotten something: its not because something is heavy, that it cant float. Armor surely will make you go down like a stone, but clothes dont (I think).
-
We'd have to ask some old fashion expert.
-
Sounds good, but where?
-
There must be one here in the Dungeon.
We have people of all kinds here :P
-
Yea, because obviously that is the alucard we have been talking about here...
I thought we were talking about Alucard. You know, this Alucard:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pXUiK9P-QA4/UQR1xBfgvpI/AAAAAAAAAD8/90BhIPlXmOM/s1600/Legends-Alucard03.jpg)(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ASm5R_jdUIA/SoRE8Isu0AI/AAAAAAAAA28/oDxrSgwZR6Y/s400/Alucard.jpg)
:P :P :P
-
We could argue about which Alucard design until we're blue in the face. (HA!)
-
We could argue about which Alucard design until we're blue in the face. (HA!)
HA HA!
Ha Ha - Phil Ken Sebben (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtjU3e0IYgc#ws)
-
Wait, we've forgotten something: its not because something is heavy, that it cant float. Armor surely will make you go down like a stone, but clothes dont (I think).
Depending on how rich and royal you are, the dress alone could weight up to 15 pounds, not counting any jewelry or wig.
Now strap fifteen pounds to yourself and try to swim, you'll find it somewhat difficult. Now I can't tell you how much weight water would add to that, but think about the times you've done laundry. Don't your clothes feel much heavier wet? So, just to be safe, we'll say that just about doubles the weight. Now you're trying to swim in an extra thirty pounds ... thirty pounds of dead weight that doesn't even come close to being streamlined.
So yeah, you're going to sink.
-
8)
-
Found a link that works. Here's the real Trevor Belmont.
http://www.letraslibres.com/sites/default/files/u13/llcastlevaniaportada3.jpg (http://www.letraslibres.com/sites/default/files/u13/llcastlevaniaportada3.jpg)
-
Depending on how rich and royal you are, the dress alone could weight up to 15 pounds, not counting any jewelry or wig.
Now strap fifteen pounds to yourself and try to swim, you'll find it somewhat difficult. Now I can't tell you how much weight water would add to that, but think about the times you've done laundry. Don't your clothes feel much heavier wet? So, just to be safe, we'll say that just about doubles the weight. Now you're trying to swim in an extra thirty pounds ... thirty pounds of dead weight that doesn't even come close to being streamlined.
So yeah, you're going to sink.
You've accounted it to a child dress that isnt from royalty right? Also if this dress weighted that much for her then Maria couldnt even double jump like that.
-
You've accounted it to a child dress that isnt from royalty right? Also if this dress weighted that much for her then Maria couldnt even double jump like that.
Nah. I was just giving the basic figures.
Yeah, Maria would be wearing less (although she still seems to be fairly heavily dressed and coming from a somewhat well to do family.) but you have to remember that she'd also weigh less herself and be capable of carrying less weight.
Also, I wouldn't even try to figure out how to realistically look into double jumps.
-
Haha yeah, dont take it too seriously, Im asking these things but I know its very difficult to account game logic in normal logic.
-
Haha yeah, dont take it too seriously, Im asking these things but I know its very difficult to account game logic in normal logic.
I usually don't.
As long as something vaguely makes sense, I usually let it go. ;D
-
I never pay attention to that. Double jump just doesn't make sense at all, but we give it for granted in games.