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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: jestercolony on September 30, 2013, 06:26:15 AM

Title: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: jestercolony on September 30, 2013, 06:26:15 AM
Seriously, this actually makes me curious. Imagine if Richter, the most powerful of the Belmonts goes up against Gabriel/Dracula, he who wields the powers of the Lords of Shadow and the Forgotten One. Would Richter stand any chance against him? :P I honestly think the two would come at a stalemate.

What do my fellow dungeoneers think? ^_^
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 30, 2013, 06:43:05 AM
1) There is no Richter Belmont in the LoS universe.

2) If you are talking about Richter pre-LoS, there is no point because you are comparing two characters from different universes/continualities.

3) If you are talking about the announced Belmont for LoS2, his name is Victor and I doubt that he could win in a one-on-one battle against Gabula. After all, it took both Simon and Trevorcard to defeat Gabula in MoF and despite the victory, they unable to kill him.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on September 30, 2013, 08:51:37 AM
Darkwizard's right. Richter's and Gabriel's timelines are incompatible.

Yet, if they weren't, the answer would be simple. Richter defeated Dracula -- and Gabriel is Dracula. So, obviously, Richter defeats Gabriel.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 30, 2013, 09:08:48 AM
Plus it's all about Julius, not Richter. :P :P :P

This almost sounds like it should go on "Classic Castlevania Threads" as it reminds me of my hypothetical scenarios with my friends when I was a kid.
You know the type 'who would win in a fight? X vs. Y?"
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on September 30, 2013, 09:14:11 AM
Plus it's all about Julius, not Richter. :P :P :P
The most powerful of the Belmonts? Of course it was Julius. Of course.

This almost sounds like it should go on "Classic Castlevania Threads" as it reminds me of my hypothetical scenarios with my friends when I was a kid.
You know the type 'who would win in a fight? X vs. Y?"
Ah, those. Of course, you'd pick the opposite just for the sake of annoying your partner -- so that it'd always became something of a "me" vs "you" fight. Good times, good times...
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: uzo on September 30, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
It is most definitely possible to compare characters from two different stories. It is what we call a crossover. I'm sure you've heard of it.


Looking at game abilities, comparing SotN Richter and LoS1 Gabriel (since LoS2 isn't out and I didn't play Framerate of Fate for obvious reasons) it seems at face value Richter does hold an advantage.

Richter's moves are speedier and more invulnerable. Higher damage too. However this could be argued due to his gameplay mode. Though as a boss in PoR it was kind of similar. He was even more agile though.

Gabriel shows more defense, and is more 'heavy weight'. Not pushed around as easily. Though Richter has 'bigger' 'super moves'. Gabriel is a tank, with much higher defense and seemingly higher raw power.

Further on Gabriel's side, if we want to get into The Forgotten One's (TFO) abilities, TFO seemed to have released the majority of his power to open the portal. He called it back when Gabriel was winning. Gabriel happened to get it instead somehow and then one shot TFO in half like a loaf of bread.

Where as Richter and Gabriel may have had similar 'power levels', once you factor in the power gained by TFO's battle, it mathematically doesn't seem as though Richter could stand a chance.

From what I know of Mirror of Fate
(click to show/hide)
So this seems as though it adds up.

My verdict:

Pre TFO fight? They're pretty even, just with strengths in different areas.

Post TFO fight? No chance for Richter.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on September 30, 2013, 12:01:50 PM
It is most definitely possible to compare characters from two different stories. It is what we call a crossover. I'm sure you've heard of it.
A Castlevania-Castlevania crossover? Ah yes, sounds good to me!  ;D
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: uzo on September 30, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
What? Have you not ever heard of Castlevania Judgement?
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 30, 2013, 05:18:26 PM
Alright, point taken. If such a crossover was to take place, Gabula would slaughter Richter thanks to a little thing called the void sword. Plus, the power of TFO doesn't hurt either. As we saw in MoF, no human can fight Gabula 1 on 1 an win. (crush attacks no withstanding)
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Maedhros on September 30, 2013, 05:58:54 PM
Crossovers usually make one or other universe stronger/weaker, to balance them.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Flame on September 30, 2013, 06:09:42 PM
Richter.

No matter the odds, the Belmont always wins against the Dracula, even if that Dracula is a Belmont.

Richter also has Vampire killer, which, just like the LoS one, is VERY effective against Dracula.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on September 30, 2013, 06:36:24 PM
Richter.

No matter the odds, the Belmont always wins against the Dracula, even if that Dracula is a Belmont.

Richter also has Vampire killer, which, just like the LoS one, is VERY effective against Dracula.
Oh.....did you forget that in MoF, Trevor lost to Gabula and ended up get mortally wounded when his was stabbed with his own combat cross at the end of the fight? When Gabula saw that Trevor was his son by looking at the mirror, he gave the dying Trevor some of his blood which eventually turned him in to the LoS universes Alucard (who we here on the forums call Trevorcard). Gabula is just too powerful.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Inccubus on September 30, 2013, 07:02:02 PM
It all depends on context. If this Victor or any other Belmont from anywhere fights Gabula before he fights Satan, then they will lose. If after, then they will win and Gabriel will be redeemed.  :P
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: GuyStarwind on September 30, 2013, 07:02:31 PM
As others have said the two are in different series. Each CV series portrays Belmont and Dracula differently. If this was the LoS universe then I'm thinking Gabe due to the info I've read. However, if this is the old canon I'm going with Richter. Have you seen the stuff he does in SotN? Anywho Richter uses holy power so I'm going to give this one to him.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Lelygax on September 30, 2013, 07:52:23 PM
How to make Richter win in 3 (top-secret) steps:

1-
(click to show/hide)

Richter won?
-Yes (go to 3) 
-No (go to 2)

2-
(click to show/hide)

3-
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: The Puritan on September 30, 2013, 08:09:58 PM
How to make Richter win in 3 (top-secret) steps:

1-
(click to show/hide)

Richter won?
-Yes (go to 3) 
-No (go to 2)

2-
(click to show/hide)

3-
(click to show/hide)

In short:

HYDRO STORM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrv8-VW_qtU#)
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: KaZudra on September 30, 2013, 08:37:07 PM
My vote's on Gabriel, if the LoS-verse Vampire Killer is effective on Satan and Gabriel just Shatters it effortlessly, plus no Belmont is yet to defeat him...

Richter is great and all, but all he really has going for him is his martial arts, Juste can Item Crash around Richter for years and Julius beats him in raw power.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 01, 2013, 06:44:30 AM
Let's also remember that in SotN Richter's crush attacks (especially Hydro Storm) were overpowered. If you want to use Richter in a crossover, you use RoB as a reference and not SotN. In RoB, the crush attacks aren't so overpowered and using him in that context is be most accurate when comparing characters.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Flame on October 01, 2013, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: KaZ
and Julius beats him in raw power.
I think we can all agree that Julius would beat Gabula any day. This is the guy that when asked how he beats regenerating enemies that require sealing away to defeat,he said he doesn't know, he just beats them until they stop regenerating . let me reiterate: this is the guy who can kill red skeletons.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 01, 2013, 08:15:55 AM
I think we can all agree that Julius would beat Gabula any day. This is the guy that when asked how he beats regenerating enemies that require sealing away to defeat,he said he doesn't know, he just beats them until they stop regenerating . let me reiterate: this is the guy who can kill red skeletons.
Lets also keep in mind that he is able to do this at age 56. Just imagine how powerful he was in his prime. By the way, he didn't beat them until they they stopped regenerating. He beat them before they had a chance to heal meaning that he was able to deliver enough damage fast enough that the monitors couldn't recover. Or, at least that is how I've always understood it.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: X on October 01, 2013, 10:02:18 AM
Quote
If you want to use Richter in a crossover, you use RoB as a reference and not SotN.

And why can't you use SotN Richter? He's canon, and even if he is overpowered, I'd put him up against Gabula any day if Julius wasn't available just cause.

Quote
Juste can Item Crash around Richter

I've played HoD several times and I've yet to see Juste actually have any real overpowered magical attacks. however if you are referring to the amount of magic he has then yes I can agree. But that's only because Juste was given the RPG system rather then then classic CV system. But then there is the PoR's version of Richter and he also uses the RPG system as well ie magic regenerates.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: uzo on October 01, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
@Flame

That's a very good point. The Vampire Killer would likely be extremely effective against Gabe after the vampire transformation. I can't believe I didn't think to factor that in.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Belmontoya on October 01, 2013, 12:43:40 PM
They pretty much did face off in rondo and richter wins. 

Richter would back flip whip the crap out of Gabriel.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on October 01, 2013, 01:59:42 PM
They pretty much did face off in rondo and richter wins.
Exactly. Technically, Richter has already fought Gabriel (who, after all, is Dracula), and defeated him.

In a way, it's yet another reason why the LoS and canon timelines shouldn't quite be mixed...
Although, there aren't any specific plot devices in the LoS saga that suggest that Richter hadn't met Gabriel as Dracula. Even if the LoS continuity contradicts the plot of many older CV games, I've always considered that the lore LoS left untouched (such as Richter's confrontation) would remain valid in both timelines. Unless LoS was meant to be an entirely blank slate?
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 01, 2013, 02:15:16 PM
Exactly. Technically, Richter has already fought Gabriel (who, after all, is Dracula), and defeated him.

In a way, it's yet another reason why the LoS and canon timelines shouldn't quite be mixed...
Although, there aren't any specific plot devices in the LoS saga that suggest that Richter hadn't met Gabriel as Dracula. Even if the LoS continuity contradicts the plot of many older CV games, I've always considered that the lore LoS left untouched (such as Richter's confrontation) would remain valid in both timelines. Unless LoS was meant to be an entirely blank slate?
LoS is a reboot which is by definition a blank slate. It is a completely separate universe.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on October 01, 2013, 02:21:08 PM
LoS is a reboot which is by definition a blank slate. It is a completely separate universe.
Right, then. In any case, it serves my point well.

And, in the end, it might as well come to which universe you set the confrontation in.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Belmontoya on October 01, 2013, 03:03:17 PM
I have a custom Richter character in my Soul Calibur 4 game. This thread is making consider whipping up a Gabriel to have this showdown.

If they fight in the Soul Calibur universe, it's a fair fight because it's neutral ground.  :P
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Flame on October 01, 2013, 04:44:09 PM
But it would be Belmont Gabe, not Dracula Gabe. Unless you make them both
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: e105beta on October 01, 2013, 09:38:03 PM
@Flame

That's a very good point. The Vampire Killer would likely be extremely effective against Gabe after the vampire transformation. I can't believe I didn't think to factor that in.

Actually, doesn't Dracula tell Simon in Mirror of Fate that the Vampire Killer has no power over him? I mean, you have to factor in the fact that it's weakened by the time Simon gets his hands on it, but it didn't seem to help Trevor much against him in their first battle even at its full strength.

But then, that's the LoS-verse Vampire Killer, and whether or not it has any special powers is debatable. The games hint at it, but never conclusively say it outright. The Original-verse Vampire Killer may be far more effective.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: uzo on October 01, 2013, 10:08:44 PM
@e105beta

You answered your own question. The LoS Vampire Killer is just a standard weapon, without the same effect as the original canon's Vampire Killer. It works on creatures of the night in general, and arguably more effective against Dracula personally. While the latter may not apply since it is a different Dracula, it most certainly has an effect since gabe is now a creature of the night.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Zetheraxza on October 02, 2013, 12:33:21 AM
It is a Weapon of Alchemy. While it is used for all-purpose enemies, it has a stake especially designed for Vampires. Gabriel took many hits but the stake to the heart "killed" him.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Intersection on October 02, 2013, 05:19:00 AM
It is a Weapon of Alchemy. While it is used for all-purpose enemies, it has a stake especially designed for Vampires. Gabriel took many hits but the stake to the heart "killed" him.
The Combat Crosses in LoS don't have anything to do with Alchemy. And there's nothing to suggest that they had any supernatural properties; they were simply a series of particularly effective and well-crafted weapons. In LoS, Gabriel's weapon was named "Vampire Killer" only because of its bloody reputation -- not because of any inherent power against darker creatures.
And the weapon used by Trevor and Simon was a replica, and not the original weapon Gabriel wielded -- he shattered it after his fight against the Forgotten One.

The canon Vampire Killer was forged through alchemy, and had been imbued with Sara's soul in LoI. Hence its legendary power and sensibility against creatures of the night.

So, in theory, Gabriel's CC and Richter's VK should be two very different weapons.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Flame on October 02, 2013, 07:49:20 AM
The Combat Crosses in LoS don't have anything to do with Alchemy.
Considering it was also made by Rinaldo, the LoS incarnation, can you be sure of that?

Also, you take a look at the way that long ass chain fits inside the hilt and you tell me that's not some magic bullshit.

 
Quote
And there's nothing to suggest that they had any supernatural properties; they were simply a series of particularly effective and well-crafted weapons.
Supernatural? well, Holy.

Yes. When the chain was made it was forged using holy water, and then blessed. So it's especially effective against dark creatures. (the original Combat Cross, mind you- we know nothing about Trevor's version)

Quote
In LoS, Gabriel's weapon was named "Vampire Killer" only because of its bloody reputation -- not because of any inherent power against darker creatures.
Actually, it's called Vampire Killer because of the stake attachment

Quote
So, in theory, Gabriel's CC and Richter's VK should be two very different weapons.
Classic Canon Vampire Killer would definitely be stronger, since it was specifically made to kill vampires, through the sacrifice of Sara's soul.

While the Combat Cross is simply a Holy attribute weapon with a Vampire killing stake on the end.

that said, there must be something special about that Stake, given that Alucard went back to fetch it. You'd think that any stake would do, but the specific "Vampire Killer" Combat Cross stake is what was needed. I suppose it might also have been forged with Holy water and Rinaldo magic.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 02, 2013, 08:21:04 AM
Despite that the Combat Cross is made with holy water and is blessed, I believe that the Vampire Killer from the original timeline is stronger. It was meant for destroying "the children of the night". In LoI, it was able to neutralize the Ebony Stone's protection, something which no other weapon was capable of doing. The Combat Cross, although made in part using holy water instead of regular water and being blessed, is still a standard weapon that does extra damage to monsters. Let's look at Gabriel's battle against Camilla. At the start of the battle, she was in a force field and Gabriel had no way to piece it. The only reason he was able to win is because she lowered her barrier after Gabriel killed the first wave of minions. Had she never lowered her barrier, Gabriel would not have been able to harm her. Given what we know able the VK from the old timeline, it probably would be able to neutralize that barrier.

Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Flame on October 02, 2013, 08:47:00 AM
There's also the fact that as far as Classic Belmonts go, the Holy attribute comes from them, not the whip. The whip  is anything but Holy.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Chernabogue on October 02, 2013, 08:51:43 AM
Gabriel/Dracula has a beard. He wins. Except against Julius.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: X on October 02, 2013, 09:53:27 AM
Haha! It's all about the Goatees.

Based on all the evidence I've seen from both the original timeline and the LoS universe, provided by the following people here on the forums, I'd have to say that Gabula and his combat Cross would not beat Richter Belmont armed with the Vampirekiller. For starters Gabula does not have the mystical bloodline of the Belmont family allowing him supreme powers over other lesser hunters, and secondly his Combat Cross is nowhere equal in power to Richter's vampirekiller. It might take Richter a while to beat down Gabula because as someone here had said before, Gabula is a tank. But I do think Richter would come out as the victor.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Lelygax on October 02, 2013, 02:42:23 PM
Gabriel/Dracula has a beard. He wins. Except against Julius.

But Hammer have a beard too and isnt that strong.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: The Puritan on October 02, 2013, 05:56:02 PM
But Hammer have a beard too and isnt that strong.

This. If I read Shiroi's Ricordanza of the God's Abyss translation right, he fricking pulled the head off an Axe Knight.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Dark Nemesis on October 03, 2013, 03:00:25 AM
But Hammer have a beard too and isnt that strong.

You haven't seen him in action, did you? How he survived all alone in the entrance of the castle, without getting killed by monsters?
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on October 03, 2013, 05:02:32 AM
This. If I read Shiroi's Ricordanza of the God's Abyss translation right, he fricking pulled the head off an Axe Knight.

You haven't seen him in action, did you? How he survived all alone in the entrance of the castle, without getting killed by monsters?

Yup. Yup.
Hammer's strong. It is a shame that he was not included in the Julius mode of DoS.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 03, 2013, 10:01:08 AM
He could have be given special strength enhancing drugs when he was in the army. You know so the soldiers can endure a lot more and perform at a higher level. Or, perhaps his strength is an inherited trait like the Belmont's "holy" power.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Lelygax on October 04, 2013, 03:39:00 PM
He could have be given special strength enhancing drugs when he was in the army. You know so the soldiers can endure a lot more and perform at a higher level. Or, perhaps his strength is an inherited trait like the Belmont's "holy" power.

Or maybe he have this ring that makes you stronger depending of how many cash you have. That would explain a lot of things xD
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 04, 2013, 04:15:20 PM
Or maybe he have this ring that makes you stronger depending of how many cash you have. That would explain a lot of things xD
Maybe he has a couple Rings of Varda. I mean in SotN one made you pretty powerful. Two made you overpowered.
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: X on October 04, 2013, 06:15:12 PM
Quote
Maybe he has a couple Rings of Varda. I mean in SotN one made you pretty powerful. Two made you overpowered.

Love that ring. I always get two of them.  8)
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: darkwzrd4 on October 04, 2013, 06:49:24 PM
Love that ring. I always get two of them.  8)
Who doesn't!?
Title: Re: Richter Belmont vs. Gabriel (Dracula)
Post by: Lelygax on October 04, 2013, 07:16:39 PM
Who doesn't!?

Enemies :P