Topic: The Lisa-Dracula romance

[GuyStarwind]

It would have been better if Mathias and Leon went to the castle together and met up a few times during the adventure like with Juste and Maxim in HoD.

I love LoI but this all the way. I think there could've been a really interesting story with these two but instead we get a somewhat interesting story. Heck have Mathias be playable or have him help you out in various areas.

[darkwzrd4]

I love LoI but this all the way. I think there could've been a really interesting story with these two but instead we get a somewhat interesting story. Heck have Mathias be playable or have him help you out in various areas.

Yeah. I could also see Mathias delivering the finishing blow to Walter and instantly absorb his soul into the Crimson Stone. He could also be the one to preform the ritual to turn the Whip of Alchemy into the Vampire Killer. Hell, he could be the one to give Leon the whip in the first place. As for Rinaldo, he would just sell potions and other supplies to Leon.

[GuyStarwind]

Yeah him giving Leon the whip would add to the drama of the Dracula vs Belmont struggle. I do enjoy how the Vampire Killer was made in LoI though

[KaZudra]

Imagine this,
Mathias Playable initially to help Leon, but in reality to Kill Death, As he and Death come to an agreement, Mathias still defeats him to gain dominance over death, leaving only his rebellion to God left, which he succeeds in becoming a vampire.

The Vampire Killer Ritual could involve blood, Maybe Sara should bite Leon at the moment she is killed, It would explain why only Belmont blood would draw the whip's power and at the same time give an explanation to The Belmont's supernatural feats.

Rinaldo would interact with both Leon and Mathias, Mathias he would initally treat with full respect and slowly see his turning.

A Mathias Campaign could also give tidbits to his feelings towards Elizabetha, Maybe something along the lines of during the crusades, all Mathias asked from God was to keep Elizabetha safe, after so much killing (or whatnot) in the name of God, just time find his dearly beloved has fallen.

There could be a DMC3 style showdown between Dracula and Leon where the outcome would obviously result in the Castlevania Legacy.

Also, Since they were on Common grounds, Leon's choice to Hunt the night with his bloodline would have a stronger influence if the betrayal was more betrayal-y. Example, Mathias could have saved Sara at one point, but instead wanted Leon to lose his loved one so he could "feel his pain".

Lastly, I think that Leon should have a child, not during the game, but at the epilogue, That way the Betrayal is deeper, and the child would grow up hunting the night, for none should repeat Leon and Son's Tragedy.

All LoI really needs is a bit more writing into it to be a satisfying Origins story. Since IGA is more about the Game first, then story, I think getting some help on story would have been a good idea.

what do you guys think?

[Shiroi Koumori]

^ A good fan fiction would fix that problem. Then just imagine the gameplay.

[crisis]

cv dungeon please stop PMing me for Mathias x Leon yaoi,
or you will force my hand

[X]

CV yaoi shouldn't even exist     I see it as having nothing to do with the spirit of what Castlevania is all about. And I personally feel it's insulting to CV in general as that's not how I wish to see my favorite series and CV characters portrayed. *A-hem* Anyways, as far as the Lisa-Dracula romance is concerned; I generally feel that Lisa a very perceptive person to look beyond Dracula's monstrous exterior and see the human part of him that others could not. She was without a doubt a woman ahead of her time as everyone else was superstitious of even the littlest of things.

[Shiroi Koumori]

CV yaoi shouldn't even exist     I see it as having nothing to do with the spirit of what Castlevania is all about. And I personally feel it's insulting to CV in general as that's not how I wish to see my favorite series and CV characters portrayed. *A-hem* Anyways, as far as the Lisa-Dracula romance is concerned; I generally feel that Lisa a very perceptive person to look beyond Dracula's monstrous exterior and see the human part of him that others could not. She was without a doubt a woman ahead of her time as everyone else was superstitious of even the littlest of things.

Hehehe Crisis is just trolling. But there are some yaoi castlevania floating around in the webs.

That could be for the argument of reincarnation, you get better each time.

[Dracula9]

This irks me too, however just do what I do K.K. Drunkinski; Ignore the Dracula/Mathias connection entirely. In an interview IGA has stated that Mathias is Dracula, but nowhere in the game does it outright state this. It's ambiguous at best. So it leaves it open to personal interpretation. I enjoy LoI more this way cause of the game's lack of story stating that Mathias is Dracula. I'm free to interpret what happens after the game has ended.

I was also scratching my head because of this as well. It didn't make sense. From a story prospective SotN--and how it ended--should have been the last CV entry of the entire series.

See, I half-agree with you on that one. While SotN's ending certainly does wrap things up nicely and with a solidly good ending for everybody involved, I think that Dracula's memory loss is a part of his curse. Not his CVIII Curse, mind you, but the curse that his self-wrought immortality and renunciation of the Divine has brought upon him. The way I've always looked at it, when Alucard defeats Dracula at the end of SotN, the good side of Dracula rises to Heaven and rejoins Lisa; but that hatred for humankind, which in a way became its own independent force (since it uses Chaos as a medium to basically alter time and space to rebuild that monster of a castle on the dot every century), remained on Earth, where it was reincarnated as "Dracula" in the rest of the series. IMO this theory explains why the century-revival thing got even more erratic following SotN, and why certain incarnations of "Dracula" were somewhat OOC in certain respects (the Wraith in HoD, for instance). That idea works in the same premise as the Lords of Shadow, and their good sides rising to Heaven whilst their corrupted halves festered below, which I think adds a bit more to the plausibility of my theory, since LoS had a shit-ton of allusions and references to older-game notions and concepts.

I also adhere more to this one, since it's the only real time Dracula's death looked...pleasant. Every other time he kicks the bucket, there's fire and electricity and explosions and darkness and earthquakes and messes of pain and things that look agonizing. In SotN, he just kind of floats there for a few seconds as that calming pale light envelopes him and rises towards the heavens (pun intended) as it disintegrates him. No explosions, no blood, no vortexes or screams, just...quiet light taking him away, and right after he has the revelation of his immortal lifetime and, in a way, reconciles his beef with God just a little bit. Perhaps it was just the little bit the big man needed/wanted in order to whisk Dracula's more "deserving" half (dare I say his heart?) away to the after. Or perhaps Dracula was able to go to Elisabetha/Lisa all that time, but his anger and hatred (which really in SotN were more attached to the loss of Lisa than a hatred of God) kept him shackled to Earth.

In any case, with how many plotholes and retcons this particular subject has, it's not difficult to string a theory together.

The one discussed with Mina/Soma being reincarnations I'd never really considered or even thought about, but now that I have I totally love it. It fits rather well with my own ideas here. With the final death of Dracula in the DCW, maybe his soul had to still be reincarnated as part of the curse Mathias wrought on himself; but this time around, since his evil half was permanently destroyed, it was his good half that gained the upper hand in the reincarnation and was thusly more prevalent as Soma (instead of Somacula, which was diminished in the good as Dracula's good was diminished in his evil). Since Dracula and Lisa/Elisabetha are literally soulmates in more than one sense, her soul was reincarnated along with his as Mina.

I think it works.

[crisis]

when exactly did dracula repent?

all he did was apologize to his son, it was pretty much "its too late for me" speech

that doesnt mean he should just quit his hatred against humanity

[K.K. Drunkinski]

when exactly did dracula repent?

all he did was apologize to his son, it was pretty much "its too late for me" speech

that doesnt mean he should just quit his hatred against humanity

Idunno about you, but to me, the final sequence of SotN was pretty clearly Drac regretting being an asshole all that time. He didn't have to say literally, word for word, "I repent my actions against mankind." He got the point across with that whole exchange with Alucard. He didn't get all soft out of the blue, cuz his son was sad. It was when Alucard told him what Lisa's last words were, which were specifically instructing Drac and Al to not blame humanity for her death. And when he heard what she said, he felt bad all the sudden.

[darkwzrd4]

I think that it is the Chaos and/or the dark rituals that are used to resurrect him that keep evil and cloud his judgment. It seems that only he sees someone at the time of his own death that he has a moment or two of clarity. Hence why he asked for forgiveness at the end of SotN yet was still evil in games that occur afterward.

That is the case, then it seems his soul doesn't become truly free until the events of AoS (which just makes the battle against Chaos that much more significant).