Topic: Games are dieing as i knew them, CV games, as well as others.

[Dengo vlad tepes]

digital games are the best option for you dude "XBLA , PSN and Wiiware or steam"

[K.G. Morder]

I liked Aria of Sorrow. I felt it was real good, and a pretty solid end point to the timeline. (I mean, it would have been pretty silly to keep on fighting Dracula into the far flung future, so it's pretty neat how they managed that.) The Shinto stuff felt a bit forced, but the way everything was presented, recounted, and managed just blended together so well that you never really feel it until you really start to break down the story and isolate it's weak points. The gameplay was not THAT grindy either. Only if you really wanted a particular soul or weapon. other than that it had a pretty easily accessible arsenal of both,(DAT SWORD WHIP) with real good soul drop chances early on. And real good souls too. (DAT RED MANTLE)

[Slayer]

Whew, there is a lot to read in this thread. Big posts, I'll try to get through them.

As for games dying, I understand the sentiment but it is somewhat misplaced. Sure, big budget titles are getting less risky. It seems the major publishers want to focus their resources on safe games, or even making games safer. Modern Warfare is the obvious choice here, but other companies seem to be trying to steal it's thunder (EA in particular with the modernization of Medal of Honor and the casualization of Battlefield...and the turning of Dead Space from a genuine horror game into Gears of War for Dead Space 3...).

Still, even if they aren't the main focus of the gaming world anymore, there are still some awesome titles coming out these days. Dark Souls, BlazBlue, the Shin Megami Tensei series and a load of other titles that scratch that hardcore itch. Also, The Walking Dead games have amazingly well-crafted characters and plots (and as someone who has only read a little bit of the comic and watched like 2 episodes on AMC, I can say the story stands out in its own right.) They're harder to find out about since they don't get that much attention, but honestly, as a Castlevania fan who discovered the series in the 2000's, finding games that weren't popularized was the norm for me anyway, and surely a lot of my fellow forumgoers.

I think the awesome games are still coming out. It's just that they're less apparent than they have ever been in a very long time.

 

[Sumac]

OK, I am a bit late for the party, but since this topic is like an annoying toothache, I'd really liked to state my own opinion on this "generic rant".

This rant has to do with the crap i keep dealing with, when it comes to morons on youtube and in general anywhere, who never touched a CV game before LoS, and how they think LoS is epic, yet for me it's not epic cause it threw everything i loved about CV games out the window, little things actually.

Bad start. It could be summed up as "stop liking, waht I don't like", which never was mature or constructive stance. Everyone have right for their own opinion. Hating other people for the fact that they don't uphold your values is stupid.

Also, things change. CV wasn't the same 10 years ago as it was 20 years ago already. Now it changed again. Deal with it or leave. As simple as that. I am, myself really tired from people on Youtube and other places who constantly complain that "things are not like they were, when they were little kids and green was greener and blue was bluer". It's like they don't grow up and never learn basic logic. And basic logic tells us, that things change and its inevitable. No matter how much acid and grief you produce. However, nobody will take your precious old games / cartoons / movies from you or delete them from your memory, if new games will not be like the games of old.

I am sad that they never will be games with the same graphics like Donkey Kong Country, for example. And so...? Should I go on a lengthy rant, that EVUl RARE who was bought by EV0l Micro$oft will never make another title like that. Nope. I value those three games as gems they are. And the fact that there will never be produced Rare-created DKC4 with the same style of graphics does little effect on me, it's sad, but three games is more than enough for me to play. And besides other things, I value moderation. If there were produced too many similar DKCs, then I wouldn't uphold those three games at the same volume as I do now, becuase they've lost their uniqueness. This is the reason why I don't have high opinion on the MegaMan series. There are so many exciting games over there to play and follow. Open your mind, the whole world is there to see.

Another example is TMNT. I was a big fan of 87 cartoon. But when it's ended it was obvious that they will never create something like that. This time (80s) has gone forever. It was sad, but I accepted it, since those treasured memories are still with me and no-one will be able to change that. And old cartoon still exist. I can rewatch it whenever I want. Later I've become big fan of 2003 cartoon, that was VERY different and in certain aspects even better, than the old one. And it ended too. 

What I am trying to say: there is no point to hate logical evolution. There is no point in concentrating so much on one stuff. Of course, some people perefer to be grouchy whiners. But it's their choice and while I am sad that their decided to wreak their nerves for such petty reasons...well, why should I follow them? No reasons really.

In the end, LOS is a modern Castlevania. This is what the series needed to not to become obscure third-rate title for handhelds only, that copy itself over and over. I don't want Castlevania to be reptitive sub-thing, like MegaMan or Mario. Castlevania desrves better than that and because of it it needs change itself once in a while. Though, I sadly see some people, that would be OK with opposite outcome, for reasons I couldn't even fathom. I guess, they just want to play the same game over and over. Strange choice considering what 2D Castlevania were for the last ten years or so.

Okay so.. i am sick of how the word "epic" is thrown around now days, it's so damn subjective, and if you tell someone it's not "epic" to you, they argue you to death cause they think they're stating fact, and the FACT of the matter is, what might be epic to these wannabe CV fans is not epic to me, and i been playing the CV games for years, since the NES, i seen it evolve all the way up to the SOTN games, and then de-evolve into what LoS is.. yes.. that's right, to be LoS is not an evolution of the series... it's something else... and for good reason.

You are not the one to decide who are CV fans. The fact that you are playing CV since NES doesn't make you more CV fan, than people who started playing series since DOS or LOS. It's immature nonsense.

LoS is just that.. LoS.. the only thing making it a CV game is the title, because as we all know.. CV games place you as a belmont fighting DRACULA! Not Satan!

Aria of Sorrow = Magical School Boy vs. the Embodiment of Chaos
Dawn of Sorrow = Magical School Boy vs. the Embodiment of all Dark Powers

Your argument is invalid. Sorry.

I think the biggest thing though that bothers me is the fact that they took little things that make a CV game a CV game, and threw it all out!

So what "true" CV game should have?
For me its level by level progression, simple controls, high difficulty, a lot of platforming, interesting level design, good boss fights, and dark mood.
Hm...I guess, that LOS for me is more CV, than everything produced after Dracula X, save for CV64 and partially LOI. =)
Am I not a true CV fan after that, though my first CV was CV1 on NES?

Let's start with Music.... what the hell happen there?!
LoS does not have epic music, i keep arguing with people, it's not epic to me... .
All the actual CV games before LoS were actual CV games, they had this music that mixed things up, it took symphony and more and just... made it all awesome!
That is the BIGGEST argument i have though with people.... to me the music was horrid!
It was like .. a hollywood movie!
I don't want to play a hollywood movie!
I want to play a GAME! Not a MOVIE!
I don't think i would complain if a CV movie DID come out and had music like that, cause that would be a MOVIE... but i don't like that kind of thing in a GAME!

Too late. Games became more and more movielike. It's not a bad thing and just natural evolution of things. This particular direction was obvious even in the middle of 90s, when movie-games and didgitizing made attempts to dominate market. Back then it was badly realized, but it was direction in which games would went anyway, like it or not.
As for LOS, yes, it was a movie-like Castlevania. For CV it was first experience like that. And dare I ask few simple questions: Weren't there 30+ games prior to it not enough to sate your lust for that kind of music? Don't you want to see something new? Even if you don't, you still have your old games to enjoy them. And most likely there will be produced some new "old-ish" titles to calm the nerves of poor "devoted fans". Why be so sour and hate people who enjoy something new?

Let's look at other games from other companies... Nintendo for instance, you STILL go through Zelda games almost always hearing some sort of awesome constant music! It rarely brakes up and goes silent! And the music never sounds hollywood!
Same with mario games, and ever with the music and how it sounded in Super Mario Gallaxy, you still knew it was mario's music, you could just tell.. and it still sounded good! It still had it's identity and was enjoyable.

Zelda and Mario are bad examples of this. They're in their own little one-game subgenres. Castlevania wasn't like that, since it was more or less generic platfromer, but with remarkable theme and a whip as a weapon. Besides, Castlevania had enough changes within itself over the years, whereas Mario, to my knowledge, mostly was playing it save and rarely had radical changes in style or core mechanics.

I am almost done with japanese companies, cause they lost their way!
Capcom... What happane to Megaman? Ta hell?! Since i no longer get my fix of megaman games, i'm done buying anything else that comes from Capcom!

I'm just about done with all those companies.... just... i'm sick of it!
I'm going to end up playing old games.. over and over.. and never spend another dime on newer games.. and i don't think these companies would like that too much.

I'm fairly sure i'm not the only CV fan who feels this way... sure they brought in other fans to the series, but people like me got alienated!
LoS is not a CV game for a long time fan... not for a fan like me, it's a CV game for everyone else the company could not reach!
It needed to be a game for all of us! And for me it was not.

And Megaman and CV games are not the only thing pushing me away, i used to LOVE Final Fantasy games, it's gone that way as well! What the HELL happen to that series? The last good FF game is one i will never get to play cause it's on iPad and iPhone! I am ofcourse talking about Final Fantasy Dimensions!

This part sounds like generic old school mostalgia blinded rant-obsession over the past. No comments needed.

LoS is not a CV game for a long time fan... not for a fan like me, it's a CV game for everyone else the company could not reach!

I am long time CV fan. LOS is a CV for me. Your argument is invalid.

But COME ON! I can't be the only one noticing this all happening, can i?
I love newer graphics.. i love what computers and technology brings us.. but that does not mean we should let go of what was great!

There is no turning back.
No matter how much you hate it, games will change, since techonology becomes different and more expensive than before. It's logical evolution.

[DragonSlayr81]

I wouldn't say it's pure "evolution" more than it is trend. It could bank off evolved ideas, but anything that is "big" now is not necessarily evolved from past trends. Example, HD movies ARE an evolved form of cinema, but the whole "shaky camera" trend and "let's make every movie with a sepia/yellow tone/blue toned filter" are trends. They aren't "evolved forms of movie making" more than "ideas that are popularized and everybody else starts to immitate because of their popularity". That really has nothing to do with progression/evolution, but changed taste, and not all change of taste is an evolved one. Just because the works of Stephanie Meyers are hot, does that mean her books are an naturally evolved taste from anything made a decade, two, or even centuries ago, JUST because they are made and accepted in the here and now?

It might be idealistic, but I do think there is a place for everything and all tastes. The cynical modernist might not agree, but just looking at humanity at a whole, it's apparent it still exists. Hell, the fact that so many indie games are popular(and that a game like Angry Birds, which has the simplicity that you'd find in old school arcade games, can still resonate with a broad casual gamer base) shows that "one type of gaming" hasn't dominated just yet.

It IS a conundrum, but what if this, the whole cinematic game thing, IS a trend? Hear me out on this one. If it's a trend, people will get tired of it. Not every generation will accept the trends of the last. Some even go and rebel against it, either because they are disenfranchised by it(or grow to be disenfranchised by it), or want individualize themselves from it as something different. Just because one says "THIS" is the way things are looking to go doesn't mean the next generation won't say, "Look, old man, that's YOUR ways, but we are going a DIFFERENT way". It's the change fo the changed. Because of that, and humanity's strange way to bounce back and forth between trends, it's really unpredictable. Even a lot of trend experts can get the rug pulled from beneath them regarding such shift in generational taste. I never take one's opinion regarding the "headed future" as fact. It's always one possible outcome of many. Mankind has been known to "turn on a dime", hence to actually "roll" with change means you have to be open-minded enough that whatever horse you bet on, make sure you aren't betting your house on it.

[Claimh Solais]

One thing people need to note is that while yes, LoS is following the trend of games lately, Castlevania on the NES wasn't that different. It followed the trend of challenging side-scrolling action platformers that were coming out, a la Super Mario, Metroid, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Contra, Sonic, etc. alongside the lesser known ones like 8 Eyes and Getsu Fuma Den.

[Sumac]

IMO, (some) video games almost always tried to shape themselves as close to cinema or cartoons as possible. The thing is, that technology for that was limited and developers were forced to somehow bypass this problem, that lead to the games being something unique. In the 90s developers tried to merge video games and actual movies with digitizing and, finally, FMV games, however, once again, technology got old too fast and the results were less than good most of the time.

Nowadays, technology put out such limitations out of the way and games ultimately can be, what they wanted to be from the start - cinematic, epic experience. Of course it doesn't mean that all games were attempted to be like that or that all of them should be like that. There is always place for God of War and there is always place for Pac Man (blossoming of casual games on IPads and such is the proove of it). However, biggest franchises will ultimately stay as cinematic as possible. It was their destiny from the begining. For people who don't want such thing - there is always Nintendo condoles, smartphones and the like.

It is the same as evolution of cinema: mute cinema -> black and white -> colour. You can't seriously think, that most movies in the world will all of sudden go black and white or mute, do you? Such movies will possibly be still realised, but they will nothing more, but experiments and throwbacks to the past. The same thing with video games. There is no turning back and I honestly can't believe, that developers will completely stop using motion capture, cutscenes, voice acting, HD graphics and will return to the 90s standarts. It is pretty much impossible right now.

[CastleToastM]

As long as there will be more Castlevania titles, no matter what the gameplay or feel may be, Castlevania won't die.

Lords of Shadows might not the same as the NES Castlevania games, but it's still Castlevania. The series isn't dying, because it's still getting new games.

That's how I see it, anyways.

[Sumac]

As long as there will be more Castlevania titles, no matter what the gameplay or feel may be, Castlevania won't die.

Indeed.
Finally somebody understands how reality works.

Somebody started a campain against me? As far as I remember, I haven't insulted anyone in the past few months. Seemingly somebody take my opinions too close to a heart. 
What a clear demonstration of the openness of mind and maturity.

[K.G. Morder]

IMO, (some) video games almost always tried to shape themselves as close to cinema or cartoons as possible. The thing is, that technology for that was limited and developers were forced to somehow bypass this problem, that lead to the games being something unique. In the 90s developers tried to merge video games and actual movies with digitizing and, finally, FMV games, however, once again, technology got old too fast and the results were less than good most of the time.

Nowadays, technology put out such limitations out of the way and games ultimately can be, what they wanted to be from the start - cinematic, epic experience. Of course it doesn't mean that all games were attempted to be like that or that all of them should be like that. There is always place for God of War and there is always place for Pac Man (blossoming of casual games on IPads and such is the proove of it). However, biggest franchises will ultimately stay as cinematic as possible. It was their destiny from the begining. For people who don't want such thing - there is always Nintendo condoles, smartphones and the like.

It is the same as evolution of cinema: mute cinema -> black and white -> colour. You can't seriously think, that most movies in the world will all of sudden go black and white or mute, do you? Such movies will possibly be still realised, but they will nothing more, but experiments and throwbacks to the past. The same thing with video games. There is no turning back and I honestly can't believe, that developers will completely stop using motion capture, cutscenes, voice acting, HD graphics and will return to the 90s standarts. It is pretty much impossible right now.

I find it really fun that the original 3 castlevanias were heavily into being movie parodies, complete with film sprockets in the openings and title screens, indicating it was some kind of classic horror movie, and even retains monsters from them. LoS meanwhile, also feels like a movie, but in a completely different way. It feels like one of those big budget fantasy types. It definitely has some unsteady cam to it, though it's only really noticable if you stand still, and it could be argued that it's because you are watching from Zobek's PoV.

also-

LoS is just that.. LoS.. the only thing making it a CV game is the title, because as we all know.. CV games place you as a belmont fighting DRACULA! Not Satan!

This is the stupidest argument I have ever heard. there are plenty of classical CV elements in LoS, aside from the title, and someone OTHER than Dracula the final boss is NOT uncommon. Like Sumac noted, Aria and Dawn did it first, and you even play as Dracula reincarnated in the form of a high school kid. And yet Aria is often considered a great castlevania game, gameplay and storywise.

[Rugal]

OP is right, though. LoS music is pretty much atrocious and is an insult to Castlevania. Keep your "epic" generic sounding shit in your shitty hollywood films, not my Castlevania games.

[K.G. Morder]

I liked LoS' music. I would not mind hearing more of it- so long as they do not fall into the repetitive pitfall LoS fell into. Theres only so many times I can hear the same stage music in different stages. try anbd make the soundtrack bigger and a bit more diverse, make it more area specific. or at least different tunes for the different areas would have been nice. (one set of tracks for each of the 3 areas)

Another thing was I really liked the orchestra redone themes like the Dracula battle and the Waterfall and Courtyard. More orchestrated CV themes would be totally boss.