Topic: Any dungeon-crawler recommendations?

[Aridale]

Play Ys then! Get the almost all of em are on Steam!

[Claimh Solais]

I'd only really consider the old Ys games as dungeon crawlers, though. Basically everything pre-Ark of Napishtim.

I've always wanted to play Y's ever since I saw it in Gamepro...I think I saw a turboduo review for it back in the magazine back in the day.

It's hard to know where to start these days, any suggestions Juz?

Look no further than me. I'm a diehard Ys fan, pretty much played like every version of every game. lol

There are three different major types of Ys games. The classic bump-system ones, the frantic hack-and-slash ones, and the party-based action RPG ones. If we're talking purely Steam, you can't play the third kind, as they're relegated solely to Sony portable consoles (Ys Seven does have a PC port, but it's China-only).

The classic bump-system ones are where the series began. Ys I&II Chronicles+ on Steam contains both the first and second games in a bundle, since they're largely considered by the Ys fan-base to be a single game. They're great and a lot of good fun, but unless you're really into classic action RPGs, they're really hard to get into. The games are TOUGH, and Ys I's boss fights are pretty unforgiving.

The hack-and-slash ones consist of Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim (2003), Ys: The Oath in Felghana (2005), and Ys Origin (2007). Ys VI is much slower-paced and more down to earth in comparison, and might actually be a really good one to get into the series with. The game is tough but at a more forgiving rate than Oath.

Oath is the one I got into the series with, and it's one of the best games I've ever played. It takes VI's gameplay and ramps it up to 11, though the game is significantly more unforgiving, as it completely removes healing items, making them simply item drops when killing an enemy. If the tough difficulty is deterring, I'd recommend starting off with VI, but if you're up for the challenge, then most definitely go for Oath.

(Origin is actually my favorite of the three hack-and-slash games, but considering you have to play the game three times so see the whole story and the extremely repetitive environments, it's hard for me to recommend it to someone who hasn't played Ys before)

All in all, I definitely recommend Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim as a starting point, unless you want more of a challenge, then definitely go to Ys: The Oath in Felghana (though, why not both? They're both great games). Ys I&II Chronicles+ can deter people a bit with how difficult it is to find where to go sometimes, and the terrible boss fights in the first game, but they're still fun. And if you can manage to get through I (or choose to skip it), Ys II is definitely in my top 5 Ys games.

Here's some a lot of extra info if you're interested.

(click to show/hide)

Ys games are remade several times. This is a little guide to help you know what is what. The versions that are considered canon of each game I'll mark in bold.

• Ys I and Ys II are bundled together often, as they're largely considered to be two parts of one game. Ys I&II (PC-98), Ys Book I&II (PCE), Legacy of Ys: Books I & II (DS), and Ys I&II Chronicles(+) are all the same game. I definitely recommend the Chronicles version of PC or PSP, as its easily the best version of the game. There does exist another version of Ys II called "Ys II Special", which completely revamps Ys II from the ground up, modifying the story to reflect the anime series more, as well as changing the gameplay to play more like an action RPG a la Soul Blazer. This version is only in Korean, though, and getting it to work on any modern computers without frequent crashing is really difficult. I've yet to play this version.
  
• Ys III/Wanderers from Ys is the black-sheep of the series, as it went to a side-scrolling perspective and abandoned the overhead bump-system format. It was remade for PS2 though largely was the same game. It was remade again, as Ys: The Oath in Felghana (PC/PSP), and this version is widely considered to be the definitive version of the game.
  
• Ys IV was actually two completely different games. Ys IV: Mask of the Sun (SNES), and Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PCE). While MotS was considered the actual canon version at the time, Dawn of Ys was a significantly better game. Neither game was released in English, but English patches for both exist and are complete. This game never actually came west or had an official version made by Falcom until 2012, when it was completely remade from the ground up as Ys: Memories of Celceta for Vita, which is the second of the party-based action RPGs. There exists a PS2 remake of Mask of the Sun called Ys IV: Mask of the Sun - A New Theory, but it sucks and should be completely ignored.
  
• Ys V: Kefin, Lost City of Sand (SNES) was a different kind of Ys game. Not only was it significantly easier, but it abandoned any kind of Ys gameplay for a more traditional action RPG system, and even abandoned the fast-paced upbeat music for more standard orchestral music. The game is still fun, but it's really easy. This one didn't come west either, but there's a wonderful English patch for it. There exists a harder version called Ys V Expert, which was an official harder version by Falcom, but the English patch isn't compatible for it. There's a PS2 remake, but like Ys IV's PS2 remake, it's terrible and should be ignored.
  
• Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim (PC/PS2) was the first of the hack-n-slash games and largely considered the game that revitalized the series. There are no other versions aside from a terrible mobile version.
  
• Ys Origin (PC/Vita) is the prequel to the entire series, taking place 700 years prior to the first game. No other versions of this game exist. The Vita version is coming out next year.
  
• Ys Seven (PSP) is the first of the party-based action RPGs. It's worth mentioning that it's much easier than past Ys games, though still keeps a relative challenge compared to Ys V. It's notorious for having dropped the popular Boss Rush and Time Attack modes for whatever reason. If you want to have a boatload of fun with this game, crank the difficulty up to Nightmare immediately, as it puts the difficulty back on par with the likes of Oath in Felghana.
  
• Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (PS4/Vita) is the newest game in the series and the third party-based action RPG. It adds multiple things like two protagonists and a town-building mechanic, among other things. I haven't played this yet, as I'm waiting for some form of announcement of a western release.
  

The versions of each game I'd recommend are:

• Ys I/II: Ys I & II Chronicles (PSP) or the Chronicles+ version (PC).
  
• Ys III: Ys: The Oath in Felghana (PC/PSP).
  
• Ys IV: Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PCE) or Ys: Memories of Celceta (Vita). MoC is one hell of a solid game, though the beginning is a bit confusing and the story is wonky. Dawn of Ys is the absolute pinnacle of the bump-system games.
  
• Ys V: The original SNES version. It's better than the PS2 version, and actually has an English patch, unlike Expert. If Expert had one, I'd definitely recommend that version.
  
• Ys VI: Definitely hit the XSEED official English release on PC (Steam/GOG). They polished it up for modern systems and added a couple extra things, like the ability to warp between save points, which saves you so much time since you don't have to constantly backtrack long distances.
  
• Ys Seven and Origin only have one version (Origin is getting a PS4/Vita port, but I've yet to see if they're any good). Ys VIII is only out on Vita right now, but is getting a PS4 release next year.

And if you want to know the chronological order of the games:

• Ys Origin happens first. Adol is not born yet.
• Ys I happens 700 years later. Ys II happens immediately after. Adol is 16 years old at the time.
• Ys: Memories of Celceta happens two years later. Adol is 18 years old at the time.
• Ys: The Oath in Felghana. Adol is 19 years old at the time.
• Ys V: Kefin, Lost City of Sand. Adol is 20 years old at the time.
• Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana. Adol is 21 years old at the time.
• Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim. Adol is 23 years old at the time.
• Ys Seven happens less than a year later. Adol is still 23 years old.

There's no recommended order for the story. The great thing about the series' story is that each particular part is largely considered its own "self-contained story", as most of the games are told as if they're a volume that Adol wrote in his old age (Adol died at the age of 65, having written many tomes telling of each adventure of his).

The only games that absolutely require you to play a specific game first are:
Ys I obviously must be played before Ys II, as Ys I is just considered the first part of Ys II. Ys Origin, despite taking place before all of them, has a lot of spoilers to I & II. So Ys I & II must be played before Origin if you don't want the story spoiled for you.

Ys.
Binding of Isaac rebirth.
Torchlight 1+2.

All potato friendly and have my badass seal of approval.

I'll make note of these. Torchlight looks especially interesting. I've heard a lot of good about Binding of Isaac. It's on Vita, too, which makes it all the more interesting.

If the first huge chunk of my post hasn't already indicated, I'm already a huge fan of Ys. lol

I forgot about Planescape!

If you are looking for something more "modern" than Baldur's Gate, I would also check out Pillars of Eternity , released in 2015. It was designed to be a spiritual successor to baldur's gate, and looks every bit the part.

I heard about Pillars of Eternity. I checked it out and it does look really cool. Definitely wanna hit that one up.

[Ratty]

I'd only really consider the old Ys games as dungeon crawlers, though. Basically everything pre-Ark of Napishtim.

Look no further than me. I'm a diehard Ys fan, pretty much played like every version of every game. lol

There are three different major types of Ys games. The classic bump-system ones, the frantic hack-and-slash ones, and the party-based action RPG ones. If we're talking purely Steam, you can't play the third kind, as they're relegated solely to Sony portable consoles (Ys Seven does have a PC port, but it's China-only).

The classic bump-system ones are where the series began. Ys I&II Chronicles+ on Steam contains both the first and second games in a bundle, since they're largely considered by the Ys fan-base to be a single game. They're great and a lot of good fun, but unless you're really into classic action RPGs, they're really hard to get into. The games are TOUGH, and Ys I's boss fights are pretty unforgiving.

The hack-and-slash ones consist of Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim (2003), Ys: The Oath in Felghana (2005), and Ys Origin (2007). Ys VI is much slower-paced and more down to earth in comparison, and might actually be a really good one to get into the series with. The game is tough but at a more forgiving rate than Oath.

Oath is the one I got into the series with, and it's one of the best games I've ever played. It takes VI's gameplay and ramps it up to 11, though the game is significantly more unforgiving, as it completely removes healing items, making them simply item drops when killing an enemy. If the tough difficulty is deterring, I'd recommend starting off with VI, but if you're up for the challenge, then most definitely go for Oath.

(Origin is actually my favorite of the three hack-and-slash games, but considering you have to play the game three times so see the whole story and the extremely repetitive environments, it's hard for me to recommend it to someone who hasn't played Ys before)

All in all, I definitely recommend Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim as a starting point, unless you want more of a challenge, then definitely go to Ys: The Oath in Felghana (though, why not both? They're both great games). Ys I&II Chronicles+ can deter people a bit with how difficult it is to find where to go sometimes, and the terrible boss fights in the first game, but they're still fun. And if you can manage to get through I (or choose to skip it), Ys II is definitely in my top 5 Ys games.

Here's some a lot of extra info if you're interested.

(click to show/hide)

Ys games are remade several times. This is a little guide to help you know what is what. The versions that are considered canon of each game I'll mark in bold.

• Ys I and Ys II are bundled together often, as they're largely considered to be two parts of one game. Ys I&II (PC-98), Ys Book I&II (PCE), Legacy of Ys: Books I & II (DS), and Ys I&II Chronicles(+) are all the same game. I definitely recommend the Chronicles version of PC or PSP, as its easily the best version of the game. There does exist another version of Ys II called "Ys II Special", which completely revamps Ys II from the ground up, modifying the story to reflect the anime series more, as well as changing the gameplay to play more like an action RPG a la Soul Blazer. This version is only in Korean, though, and getting it to work on any modern computers without frequent crashing is really difficult. I've yet to play this version.
  
• Ys III/Wanderers from Ys is the black-sheep of the series, as it went to a side-scrolling perspective and abandoned the overhead bump-system format. It was remade for PS2 though largely was the same game. It was remade again, as Ys: The Oath in Felghana (PC/PSP), and this version is widely considered to be the definitive version of the game.
  
• Ys IV was actually two completely different games. Ys IV: Mask of the Sun (SNES), and Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PCE). While MotS was considered the actual canon version at the time, Dawn of Ys was a significantly better game. Neither game was released in English, but English patches for both exist and are complete. This game never actually came west or had an official version made by Falcom until 2012, when it was completely remade from the ground up as Ys: Memories of Celceta for Vita, which is the second of the party-based action RPGs. There exists a PS2 remake of Mask of the Sun called Ys IV: Mask of the Sun - A New Theory, but it sucks and should be completely ignored.
  
• Ys V: Kefin, Lost City of Sand (SNES) was a different kind of Ys game. Not only was it significantly easier, but it abandoned any kind of Ys gameplay for a more traditional action RPG system, and even abandoned the fast-paced upbeat music for more standard orchestral music. The game is still fun, but it's really easy. This one didn't come west either, but there's a wonderful English patch for it. There exists a harder version called Ys V Expert, which was an official harder version by Falcom, but the English patch isn't compatible for it. There's a PS2 remake, but like Ys IV's PS2 remake, it's terrible and should be ignored.
  
• Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim (PC/PS2) was the first of the hack-n-slash games and largely considered the game that revitalized the series. There are no other versions aside from a terrible mobile version.
  
• Ys Origin (PC/Vita) is the prequel to the entire series, taking place 700 years prior to the first game. No other versions of this game exist. The Vita version is coming out next year.
  
• Ys Seven (PSP) is the first of the party-based action RPGs. It's worth mentioning that it's much easier than past Ys games, though still keeps a relative challenge compared to Ys V. It's notorious for having dropped the popular Boss Rush and Time Attack modes for whatever reason. If you want to have a boatload of fun with this game, crank the difficulty up to Nightmare immediately, as it puts the difficulty back on par with the likes of Oath in Felghana.
  
• Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (PS4/Vita) is the newest game in the series and the third party-based action RPG. It adds multiple things like two protagonists and a town-building mechanic, among other things. I haven't played this yet, as I'm waiting for some form of announcement of a western release.
  

The versions of each game I'd recommend are:

• Ys I/II: Ys I & II Chronicles (PSP) or the Chronicles+ version (PC).
  
• Ys III: Ys: The Oath in Felghana (PC/PSP).
  
• Ys IV: Ys IV: The Dawn of Ys (PCE) or Ys: Memories of Celceta (Vita). MoC is one hell of a solid game, though the beginning is a bit confusing and the story is wonky. Dawn of Ys is the absolute pinnacle of the bump-system games.
  
• Ys V: The original SNES version. It's better than the PS2 version, and actually has an English patch, unlike Expert. If Expert had one, I'd definitely recommend that version.
  
• Ys VI: Definitely hit the XSEED official English release on PC (Steam/GOG). They polished it up for modern systems and added a couple extra things, like the ability to warp between save points, which saves you so much time since you don't have to constantly backtrack long distances.
  
• Ys Seven and Origin only have one version (Origin is getting a PS4/Vita port, but I've yet to see if they're any good). Ys VIII is only out on Vita right now, but is getting a PS4 release next year.

And if you want to know the chronological order of the games:

• Ys Origin happens first. Adol is not born yet.
• Ys I happens 700 years later. Ys II happens immediately after. Adol is 16 years old at the time.
• Ys: Memories of Celceta happens two years later. Adol is 18 years old at the time.
• Ys: The Oath in Felghana. Adol is 19 years old at the time.
• Ys V: Kefin, Lost City of Sand. Adol is 20 years old at the time.
• Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana. Adol is 21 years old at the time.
• Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim. Adol is 23 years old at the time.
• Ys Seven happens less than a year later. Adol is still 23 years old.

There's no recommended order for the story. The great thing about the series' story is that each particular part is largely considered its own "self-contained story", as most of the games are told as if they're a volume that Adol wrote in his old age (Adol died at the age of 65, having written many tomes telling of each adventure of his).

The only games that absolutely require you to play a specific game first are:
Ys I obviously must be played before Ys II, as Ys I is just considered the first part of Ys II. Ys Origin, despite taking place before all of them, has a lot of spoilers to I & II. So Ys I & II must be played before Origin if you don't want the story spoiled for you.

I'll make note of these. Torchlight looks especially interesting. I've heard a lot of good about Binding of Isaac. It's on Vita, too, which makes it all the more interesting.

If the first huge chunk of my post hasn't already indicated, I'm already a huge fan of Ys. lol

I heard about Pillars of Eternity. I checked it out and it does look really cool. Definitely wanna hit that one up.

Torchlight was developed by old Diablo devs who left Blizzard I believe.

I have the Ys games on steam but wish I had them on gog, since they've since come out on that platform which I prefer. I've beaten 1&2 and got to the end boss of 3. (Every time I hype myself up to try the boss I fire the game up- then have to sit through that long cutscene and by the end I'm like "eh, don't really feel like it anymore" been that way for years lol.) They're all good. Not so much the boss fights though, especially in the first 2. I remember the end boss in Ys 1 felt like it was about 80+% pure luck whether you'd beat him or not. And the other bosses were incredibly easy once you knew what to do. Minor gripe though, because the rest of the game(s) were rock solid.

[Claimh Solais]

I have the Ys games on steam but wish I had them on gog, since they've since come out on that platform which I prefer. I've beaten 1&2 and got to the end boss of 3. (Every time I hype myself up to try the boss I fire the game up- then have to sit through that long cutscene and by the end I'm like "eh, don't really feel like it anymore" been that way for years lol.) They're all good. Not so much the boss fights though, especially in the first 2. I remember the end boss in Ys 1 felt like it was about 80+% pure luck whether you'd beat him or not. And the other bosses were incredibly easy once you knew what to do. Minor gripe though, because the rest of the game(s) were rock solid.

I think the biggest problem I have with the final boss of 3 (assuming we're talking Oath here) is that aside from the EXTREMELY long pre-battle cutscene (fully voice acted in the PSP version which made it less boring to sit through) is that he has THREE forms. I had a lot of fun in that final battle (I was playing it in class when I really shouldn't have been, lol), but man, it felt like it went on forever.

Ys II's boss fights, to me at least, were really fun. I liked the whole concept of having a shootout and having to dodge enemy attacks. The final battle in that felt weird to me since you had to use your sword now. Ys I's boss fights were horribly designed though. They're not even fun. Vagullion (vampire bat in the mines) in particular was one I hated when I first played it, but I found out he's pretty easy, just a horribly long test of patience. Jenocres (first boss) is the only one I absolutely hate because of the fact that I'm pretty sure it's impossible without taking damage or waiting a very long time. (Ys Origin completely redid all the Ys I & II boss fights and made them so much better)

[X]

Claimh Solais@

For me it's the opposite. But I guess that's because I started with Oath. Oath I found good to play and didn't find it hard utill I started the new games while trying out difficulty options. I stopped after the fourth attempt because it was getting too hard    Ys VI on the other hand I have found to be difficult. I've yet to finish it because there's no map system as there was with Oath. I understand that this was remedied in the re-release on Steam, however I've been playing the PS2 (original) version. That, and it takes me longer to grind in Ys VI then in Oath.

[Claimh Solais]

Claimh Solais@

For me it's the opposite. But I guess that's because I started with Oath. Oath I found good to play and didn't find it hard utill I started the new games while trying out difficulty options. I stopped after the fourth attempt because it was getting too hard    Ys VI on the other hand I have found to be difficult. I've yet to finish it because there's no map system as there was with Oath. I understand that this was remedied in the re-release on Steam, however I've been playing the PS2 (original) version. That, and it takes me longer to grind in Ys VI then in Oath.

Actually, the PS2 version isn't the original, but the PC version. XSEED only re-released it and updated it for modern systems. The PS2 version was actually a port by Konami, and featured some pretty awful voice acting.

But I sorta get your point. I just never found Ys VI to be as hard. In some ways it was, but that's simply because it's an older game. You have less maneuverability due to the inability to sprint or double jump, for example.

Worth mentioning though, I personally found the PS2 version of the game to be really difficult, but I got through the PC version pretty decently (still died a lot, but not nearly as much). I don't know if there's actual difficulty changes between the two versions, but yeah. The PS2 version does have a little bit of extra content, though, and Adol's appearance changes depending on the equipped armor.

It's also quicker to grind in Oath because there aren't any EXP modifiers in Ys VI, as far as I remember. Consecutive hits in Oath increase an EXP modifier, so that you can get up to x2 EXP from enemy kills, as long as the bar doesn't deplete.

[theANdROId]

I guess it's not exactly a dungeon crawler, but maybe kinda...?  I really like "Shoot First"

[Claimh Solais]

The map makes it look dungeon-crawly to me. And hey, it's free, so why not? lol

[zangetsu468]

Even though FFXII has open world environments, it's a pretty darn good DC

[theANdROId]

For anyone that does try Shoot First, I highly recommend using the mouse to shoot...first.  :-)

[Ratty]

I guess I might as well go ahead and add some more big games in the Dungeon Crawl genre that are readily available-

All of the games in Gog's Forgotten Realms compilation are dungeon crawls.
https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_one
https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_two
https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_three

Collection one: The "Eye of the Beholder Trilogy", basically these are clones of the game "Dungeon Master" but using the AD&D license and rule set. There is no auto mapper but a 3rd party auto mapper exists for the first two games. It doesn't work on the 3rd game basically just because the developer of the utility doesn't like that one. So far as I can tell. http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/ase/ The first 2 Eye of the Beholder games were developed by Westwood Studios and are what put them on the map, prior to the release of their revolutionary RTS game "Command & Conquer".

Collection two: The venerable "Gold Box" series of AD&D games, this release includes all of the games released in the Forgotten Realms AD&D campaign setting. Including "Unlimited Adventures", the latest version of the engine which gives you access to dozens and dozens of fan made adventures, including full conversions of the first 2 games in the series, allowing you to play a version of them with mouse support. Originally designed for the Commadore64, the interface is clunky by today's standards. Movement in the tactical combat screen is accomplished on the numeric keypad, for instance. And as I mentioned, the 1st 2 games do not have mouse support so it takes some getting used to the interface in those. If you decide to play these I highly recommend using the 3rd party "Gold Box Companion" program http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/ the Gold Box companion not only adds an automapper, but an extremely useful bar which displays your party's HP and status at all times during combat. As well as other extremely useful features which make the games easier to play today. You can transfer characters from one game to the next in this series. The other Gold box AD&D games, the Krynn (DragonLance) series, basically requires you do this https://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_krynn_series

Collection three: "Menzoberranzan", a dungeon crawl using the same engine as the two Ravenloft games https://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_ravenloft_series I believe Menzo is the last in the series, and that your party (or rather, the two characters you created, not any NPCs you picked up) can be transferred through all 3.

"Dungeon Hack" a fully customizable randomly generated dungeon crawl. No real story, just you, an automap, and a randomly generated dungeon of varying difficulty and length to be determined by you. I believe it uses a modified version of the "Eye of the Beholder" engine.

[Aridale]

Ill tell ya this... If youve never played the Goldbox games... Some of em are fan...tastic! Pool of Radiance is one of my fav games ever

[Claimh Solais]

Ill tell ya this... If youve never played the Goldbox games... Some of em are fan...tastic! Pool of Radiance is one of my fav games ever

I haven't played any of them, no. But I have been watching ProJared play some of them, and they do look really fun. Pool of Radiance looks awesome, actually. Probably worth grabbing its collection just for that one.

Dungeon Hack also looks like a lot of good fun. A good game to sink some time into every now and again.

[Ratty]

Ill tell ya this... If youve never played the Goldbox games... Some of em are fan...tastic! Pool of Radiance is one of my fav games ever

I haven't played any of them, no. But I have been watching ProJared play some of them, and they do look really fun. Pool of Radiance looks awesome, actually. Probably worth grabbing its collection just for that one.

Dungeon Hack also looks like a lot of good fun. A good game to sink some time into every now and again.

I've played maybe a 3rd of the way into PoR a few months ago. I should go back and finish it. The mechanics are solid and it's a challenging game. I made the characters in my game a crossover between "The Slayers" and "Star Trek" franchise, because if you're gonna nerd out you should go all the way. Lina Inverse, Gourry Gabriev and Zelgadis have teamed up with Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and Dr. McCoy to try and help out New Phlan. I don't imagine any of them really understand what's going on. Kirk and Spock will be especially clueless if I transfer the other characters to "Curse of the Azure Bonds" since they'll have to be remade as human Rangers rather than the Half-Elf cleric/fighter/magic-users they are right now. Zelgadis is a dwarf fighter-thief so I'll have to decide whether I want to make a human thief or a Paladin next time. Either way, will have to be a different character. Hmm, William Riker maybe? Or maybe I'll just make Naga the Serpent, another Magic-User. Twice the fireballs, twice the fun!