Topic: Does Galamoth take over after Dracula’s defeat

[crisis]

He was imprisoned in the castle in 1797, and then 10,000 years later he sends the Time Reaper to alter the timeline which forces Aeon’s hand. So is it safe to assume that after the events of Dawn of Sorrow Galamoth eventually takes over as Demon King in the underworld? Or..

[zangetsu468]

I'm going to place Judgement (literally and figuratively) to the side for a moment, given it deals with timeline@$$f!!!ery..

My general understanding is as follows:
- Alucard aka Kid Dracula defeats Space Emperor Galamoth in the distant future,
- Galamoth, having been defeated, has a second crack at Alucard, during SOTN in 1797**, and
- Whether the events of Kid Dracula repeat, are currently an unknown. However, it is likely that the events of 1999 occurred regardless of the feud between Alucard and Galamoth.

**Note: This event likely involves time travel and occurs while in the 'underworld'(in this instance, the inverted Castle).


While the above contains 'head canon' my understanding is that it is true, namely for a few reasons:

- It has been noted and seen in other instances that Castlevania materialises, essentially keeping the gates to the underworld/ 'hell'. A similar instance occurs in OOE, with Shanoa accessing the gates of hell via the castle itself. This is also similar to DoS, although given this particular portal/ gate wasn't in Castlevania. Coincidentally, these all seem to occur in non-centennial resurrections, perhaps because Dracula's resurrection is incomplete and/ or in the process of trying to be brought about by a third party (Shaft, Ecclesia, Celia's Cult, etc.)
- Dracula in SOTN manifests in a non-humanoid form, or rather a humanoid figure throned upon a non-humanoid chaos-like form. As opposed to his centennial or 'complete' resurrections, whereby his first form always appears human, with the demonic form(s) to follow. (OOE and possibly POR being exceptions to this rule, which I won't go into here) SOTN's Drac appears to be a mish-mash of both and the context of where the fight takes place is more so, key, given Castlevania is noted as a 'creature of Chaos'.
- The 'Galamoth' soul, which is termed a 'fixed drop' in AoS, allows Soma(the new Dark Lord candidate) to bypass areas to do with time being stopped by the Chronomage. Again, where this is obtained is in Castlevania's underground cemetery, post-Legion boss battle, which directly links back to the inverted floating cemetery of SOTN (presumably because Castlevania is now in the eclipse, it's beyond human reach, either in the underworld/ astral realm/ some kind of interstice, meaning the characteristics of the inverted castle and actual castle are the same thing, or the dev's simply carried through the idea of linking Galamoth and Legion because of SOTN.)
- Galamoth either being dead/ of the underworld and not yet of King/ Emperor title during SOTN makes sense, given the premise of Kid Dracula is Galamoth's attempt at taking over Dracula's army, during his absence.
- Castlevania wiki says this re: Kid Dracula:
"he[Kid Dracula] finally arrives to Garamoth's lair and defeats him in a one-on-one battle, after which Garamoth is banished back to his own dimension, not without swearing to get revenge first".
Given Galamoth's depiction in SOTN, the association with 'underworld' Egyptian Gods as well as SOTN's bestiary description for Galamoth stating: 'Magical being with plan to rule the netherworld' may have originally indicated - prior to Judgement's release - that while Galamoth was indeed banished in KD, he re-emerged during the events of SOTN, attempting to do the same thing as he was in KD. (Judgement's narrative potentially retcons this, however, since it doesn't take place in any set year, I've placed it outside of the known timeline(s) that exist in the CV Verse).

EDIT:
While Galamoth exists in SOTN, he is an optional boss. While how canon this battle is remains debatable, Alucard can defeat him, so this is entirely plausible, given there are both equip and use items which resist thunder, making the job easier.

It is also possible that Galamoth's defeat in SOTN was either not part of the lore and he was accumulating power, prior to KD. However, given that very few boss fights that have been included in-game are cosnidered as non-canon and these are typically placed in secondary game modes(AoS Julius, DoS Julius/Yoko/Alucard, PoR Sisters & Richter/Maria) one assumes the boss fight was intentionally included. This also gets me to thinking. It's possible that KD occurs in one of the supplementary timelines, then Galamoth, via either time travel/ the underworld/ similar events to Judgement may possibly make the appearance in SOTN (being an alternate timeline he travelled back to) kind of similar to Cell in DBZ leaving his original timeline to travel back to the main one via the time machine..

I mentioned in my OG post that SOTN's appearance of Galamoth was potentially retconned by whatever occurs in Judgement, however, it's possible (given that time travel is thrown into the mix) that both events are occurring, given Judgement appears to happen outside of the timeline, or at least in a specific pocket of time whereby there's no set year.

An interesting post, Crisis

Check out my signature, there's a reason I've kept it this way.

[theplottwist]

So is it safe to assume that after the events of Dawn of Sorrow Galamoth eventually takes over as Demon King in the underworld? Or..

If Galamoth is attacking Dracula from the future to take over the throne, then wouldn't the opposite make more sense? As per Judgment, Aeon does say Galamoth is attacking because he seeks out that throne. Why would he attack Dracula over something he already has? Feels to me that Dracula's existence in the past somehow stops him from taking the throne in the future, explaining why he wants to erase the entire period Dracula existed.

If something close to Kid Dracula happens in the future of the main timeline, then we know an approximate motive for Galamoth's attacks: Dracula's son, in the far future, uses his father's "heirlooms" (Dracula's powers?) to stand in Galamoth's way. It stands to reason he'd attack the past to eliminate Dracula, and perhaps even Dracula's son as well. But this is a lot of speculation.

Also, I headcanon that Alucard's encounter with Galamoth on SotN is in fact Galamoth's attempt after Judgment. The first (or one of the firsts) is Judgment, where he's sending an agent first to do the deed. The agent fails, so Galamoth time travels to a point where it is known Dracula did not resurrect and the throne was vacant, but is stopped by Alucard. His soul is now trapped in the castle until 2035, when Soma absorbs it, then releases it between 2035-36, as is confirmed in Dawn to have happened.

and don't get me started on my suspicion that what we're seeing on SotN regarding Galamoth is not what we're thinking it is, and there are hints about it

[crisis]

@zangetsu468 you literally blew my mind! So much lore involved, I know a lot of it has us connecting the dots but I wonder if the devs ever intended on expanding on Gala more, it seems like they did. He’s the only boss that had a chance at becoming a threat after Dracula (or before?) After all, he’s an ancient being/deity that existed long before Dracula ever rose to power it seems.

and don't get me started on my suspicion that what we're seeing on SotN regarding Galamoth is not what we're thinking it is, and there are hints about it

Interesting, care to elaborate?

[theplottwist]

Interesting, care to elaborate?

Kid Dracula is the source of Galamoth and his throne-stealing motivation. SotN devs lifted him from there, we know that. We all know that he looks like this:



But, if you played the Kid Dracula games, you know Galamoth looked like a winged alien-like creature that looks nothing like the dinosaur-like demon we see on SotN:



But the demon we see on SotN looks a lot more like this:



...The intro/manual version of Galamoth. This Galamoth appears as a boss in an earlier level in the game, and is retconed/confirmed on the GB Kid Dracula to be Galamoth's robot stand-in, not the actual Galamoth or an "initial form" of Galamoth. A construct posing as him:



Beyond that, seems to me like Galamoth has Terminator tropes going on. Sending agents into the past to kill a person (Sarah Connor/Count Dracula) so he can ensure his victory because that person's son (John Connor/Kid Dracula) defeats him in the future. Even his initial pose seems to be referencing the Terminator when arriving in the past:



(You can just barely see Galamoth stand from this initial pose on the game as you enter his room)

What I'm saying is: what if they picked this design deliberately, and this is not the real Galamoth you're seeing, much like it wasn't the real Galamoth in Kid Dracula? What if Galamoth's soul on Aria has the power to resist time alterations because it belonged to a construct made to time travel? Also, isn't it also a Terminator trope that he's an assassin supposed to be *extremelly freaking hard* to kill? Galamoth was added to SotN with that purpose, we know that from interviews.

Also, watch his death animation:



Since he's animated through the engine, it's natural he'd break into pieces, like many bosses in this game do. But notice how the fire starts to come out of his neck and from between his joints, before his head falls off, then the rest of him follows, like a construct combusting from inside? Him losing his head first also happens to robot Galamoth, too, on GB Kid Dracula:



Although, on Kid Dracula, the battle continues with him headless.

Beyond all this, on Judgment, the Time Reaper looks like a literal skeleton. And when faced with Death, who is the protector of Time Reaper's target, Death says that the Time Reaper is "mocking his visage". Death is referencing the fact that the Time Reaper is just Death's model on Curse of Darkness. But: an assassin skeleton gets sent back in time to kill someone whose bodyguard is another assassin skeleton who notes their similarity, and whose singular job is protecting the target. What franchise of time-travelling assassin skeletons has a similar configuration to this going on, I wonder?

Terminator, at least the original, is an extremelly famous horror movie involving time travel. It makes a bit of sense to me that Castlevania, rife with horror movie references, would reference this one if given the chance. And "time travel tropes" seems like that kind of chance.

Anyway, just a bit of theorizing (and a little reaching :p ), is all. If I'm correct, this could mean we never actually saw what Galamoth looks like in the main canon. The one on SotN is an agent he sent from the future, and the same happens on Judgment again.

And I say this is a robot, but I don't use this word to mean a literal machine made of metal. I mean in the sense of a golem, a magical construct avatar, something that fits Castlevania's worldview that would be capable of having a soul like the several Golems and Creatures in this franchise have. But that's the general idea.

[zangetsu468]

But, if you played the Kid Dracula games, you know Galamoth looked like a winged alien-like creature that looks nothing like the dinosaur-like demon we see on SotN

Agree with this to some degree. Although there definitely a reptilian/ amphibian element to both characters.
Both of the death animations also do have similarities to SOTN, albeit more simplistic in nature, featuring multiple explosions/ bangs (See attached image 0487).

The head popping off could simply be KD inspired.

And I say this is a robot, but I don't use this word to mean a literal machine made of metal. I mean in the sense of a golem, a magical construct avatar, something that fits Castlevania's worldview that would be capable of having a soul like the several Golems and Creatures in this franchise have. But that's the general idea.

There is definitely a golem-like quality to SOTN Galamoth, if you examine the hip, there's clearly a rotational joint within the design.

This brings up another question, more so for the developers. they did a similar thing with Eligor (the centaur boss) from OOE, except the hips contained rotating crossbows and the legs and the body seemed mostly ironclad. Galamoth was given the 2d 'Egyptian hieroglyphic' effect, yet it can turn around on a dime if the player swaps sides on it.

One wonders, whether this is a design choice, an element of convenience, or both. Personally, it feels like it's both to me. 

...The intro/manual version of Galamoth. This Galamoth appears as a boss in an earlier level in the game, and is retconed/confirmed on the GB Kid Dracula to be Galamoth's robot stand-in, not the actual Galamoth or an "initial form" of Galamoth. A construct posing as him:

While I can only attest to looking this up on the English version, it appears KD for Gameboy was intended as a sequel to NES KD, the fights differ and this doesn't appear to occur in the NES version. (See attached image 0486)

The GB version even mentions Galamoth being stronger than before and gives him a final form, minus the wings (see attached image 0488).

Having said this, it isn't impossible for Galamoth to have sent or used some kind of Golem in the past. It would be similar to the end of Earthbound.

What I'm saying is: what if they picked this design deliberately, and this is not the real Galamoth you're seeing, much like it wasn't the real Galamoth in Kid Dracula? What if Galamoth's soul on Aria has the power to resist time alterations because it belonged to a construct made to time travel?

It would make more sense if Galamoth's soul was impervious to time travel, and he used a construct body to re-surface in the past. (Reading that for a second time, I think this is what you're saying)

Real Galamoth in terms of soul, not real in terms of 'husk'. If he's from so far in the future, it's also possible there's advanced technology behind what he's piloting in SOTN. (Terminator-like)

This is making me rethink parts of my timeline:


                                                                                                                                           
                          **<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<+                                                                     
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^                                                                     
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE                                                                   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^                                                                     
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>>>VK>KD>KDGB>[Galamoth travels to 1797]>>+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^                                                                  v   
            +<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64         **                                                                 v     
            v                           l              ^                ^                                                                  v   
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE                                                                 v   
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^                                                                  v   
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>[Judgement] v
                                                                        ^   v                                                               v
                                                                        ^  BE>*                                                          v
                                                                        ^                                                                    v
                                                                        ^                                                                    v
                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+

[crisis]

So do yall think Galamoth is a villain best left un-seen, or should Konami decide on making more games one day, he should be revisited in some form or another

Perhaps if Judgment was successful (I have no idea how many copies were sold), a sequel might have included him as the final boss. I wonder if IGA ever intended for that, and how it would’ve all played out?

[theplottwist]

So do yall think Galamoth is a villain best left un-seen, or should Konami decide on making more games one day, he should be revisited in some form or another

I'm sure there are ways to make Galamoth a worthy villain of a mainline Castlevania game. I'd be OK with that.

[zangetsu468]

I'd love to see a KD remake, called 'Adult Kid Dracula', where it's more of a SOTN-style game that concludes in Alucard's battle with Gala.

Sidenote: If they ever made a proper 3d Castlevania in future, I could see Galamoth being a similar battle to The Forgotten One in LoI.

[crisis]

Man back in the day I had a concept, a game that takes place 100 years after Lament of Innocence. You play as Mathias/Dracula, on a quest to build his demon army & gather souls AoS style. The main antagonist will be Galamoth, and the story will explore his grudge against him.

@theplottwist
Upon further review of those photos you posted of T-800 & Galamoth, their crouching poses are too similar… almost creepy!

[zangetsu468]

“Pepé Silvia lives on” in the briney, deep, subterranean bowels of the CVD XD