Topic: Lament of Innocence, take 2

[Mathias Hyperion]

In my thread about Mathias Cronqvist, The Last Belmont proposed a remake of LoI.

The thing that gets me about the  whole thing is Mathias looks nothing like the dracula of the other games, the ones produced after LOI included. Could this be some possible forshadowing that Iga is gonna redo LOI?  , I don't konw but I'm all for it and I think if he went back and fleshed out the plot more and didn't make Leon completely ignorant of everything coupled with a REAL explanation of Dracula's origin not just that he's some random guy who decided to turn evil that it could be really great possibly the best CV game ever.

This sounds like a pretty cool idea. IGA would love it - it would give him the chance to tell an awesome story AND to try to get his 3D games right. He could also make it a more definitive origin story by at least including the name "Dracula" in the script.

But I'm obsessed with the storyline. If LoI was remade, maybe for the next-gen consoles (360, Wii and PS3; well, I suppose they're current-gen now), what would you want changed? In terms of gameplay, graphics, camera, controls, weapons, bosses, locations (they should have more outside the castle), storyline?

(They could even call it Castlevania: Dracula Begins. Perhaps not. Although I do like the movie poster.)

[Mobius]

In Reply To #1

. . . . *smacks Mathias upside the head for that last comment*

Okay, a second crack at the Lament. Hmmmm... Off the top of my head, I wouldst have to say redo the castle completely with a layout worth exploring - tis' a sad day in Wallachia when Resident Evil 4 has a castle that beats the hell out of CV's prime location - and add way more depth to the forest of Eternal Night itself. Rework the voice acting, please, then do some real fine tuning on the bonus character's quests. - For god's sake, if you're going to have hidden playable characters in a game, give us a reason and some freshness. That said, with some minor control scheme futzing to accomodate the Wii and some cool extras for the fans (artwork, interviews, documentaries and fan commentary on CV in general) to unlock, get rid of some of the recovery items and things would be just peachy. - Seriously, if Igarashi-san really wants to make a solid origin story title he needs to cut out the sushi, pizza and pop culture edibles from the items list. And give Leon a warp item to exit the castle in case of dire emergencies. When you gotta' go, you gotta' go.

[Mathias Hyperion]

And give Leon a warp item to exit the castle in case of dire emergencies. When you gotta' go, you gotta' go.

Well, there was the ticket to Rinaldo's house...

Yes, the castle could be improved to make it far more atmospheric and three-dimensional - give it more character; it is, after all, a creature of Chaos. (Or at least it is going to be.) And more in the Forest of Eternal Night would of course be brilliant.

The problem with the camera is that Castlevania is all about close-range combat. It's all very well for Resi 4 and Devil May Cry with their over-the-shoulders and their lock-ons, but it's hard to keep things properly 3D and not have a frustrating camera. I think LoI did the job pretty well. It wouldn't need to be changed too drastically.

[PFG9000]

I've been replaying LoI recently and I have to say it's quite a good game.  If only the level design were better, it would be among the best 3D action games on the PS2.  Honestly, I feel every other element of the game is just THAT GOOD.  It's absolutely gorgeous to look at, the gameplay is great, the soundtrack is brilliant, the combat system is well designed, and the difficulty is spot on.  It's just the level design that holds the game back, but that aspect is so bad that it brings the game back really, really far.

I don't think Lament needs a remake so soon after its release, but I think the only thing needed to make it a truly brilliant game is proper level design.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

In Reply To #4

I miss stairs, and climbing, and platforming.  Throw a couple of nice tall towers with some of those Winged Guards or Medusa Heads, or Bats once in a while.

The flat layout has got to go.  The newer systems should be able to handle tall structures.  Maybe he didn't know how to make the map?  I suppose it'd be another thing he'd have to steal from Metroid (only this time it'd be Metroid Prime's map system).

[Dark Nemesis]

In Reply To #4

I miss stairs, and climbing, and platforming.

[CVfan13]

I think it's a little too soon to remake LoI, but what you're suggesting are all great ideas that would only improve an already great game. Remember the prologue? Well, instead of just telling us what happened, why not have the game start off with Leon and Sara in their village/whatever they live in, and then show now the next day Sara disappears, Mathias tells Leon what happened(there has to be an explanation why he knew(for example, he actually witnessed it)). Then, well you have to play as Leon, go to the church, renounce title, blah blah blah, then actually control his quest into the forest, and have a lot more area and an entire stage between Rinaldo and the castle. Well... then just add a few more areas and give it EXPLORATION. Also, some warp rooms would be nice. Oh and make Succubus playable, instead of Pumpkin, but still keep Joachim. Oh yeah, the last boss should be Mathias and Death together. Oh and you don't have to use items while you're being attacked, you should be able to pause for that.

[PFG9000]

I actually really like the real time item menu.  It adds a sense of urgency and frantic searching for the right item while you avoid the boss's attacks.  It doesn't really make sense that you could just stop the battle whenever you like to look for the right item or to grab another beer.  I know a lot of people complained about it, but I think it's a great idea that more people should get used to.

[DragonSlayr81]

I'd basically add a lot of what you all alreayd noted:

- Forest Called Eternal Night as a full intro stage. Start at the scene where Leon's running and the illusion shifts, then the first stage begins. Have it be dark, yet beautiful. I'd love from the trees to some how provide obsticles THEMSELVES for Leon, perhaps shifting and falling. You encounter your first boss before finding Rinaldo's Cabin, a Werewolf.

- Stages are structured more intellegently to provide obsticles, platforming AND opportunities for story progression. AS WELL AS try to make each location look varied. Halls can look simliar, but take the time to make rooms look unique. Platforms can DEFINATELY add to this(try to make no platforming rooms the same).

- More variety assortment of monsters(except having the same monster models but different texture mapping). Bone Pillars should've been monsters, not traps. And yes, Medusa Heads!

- With the a stage crafted perfectly for story progression, use this opportunity to add more depth to characters and story. It would've been interesting to know a little more about Walter other than, "I'm so evil and bored that I want to see vampire hunters brave through my castle labyrinth!".

- More sub-boss moments like the Doppelganger battles. A great placed sub-boss can slow down game progession to aid story sequences.

[Mathias Hyperion]

- Forest Called Eternal Night as a full intro stage. Start at the scene where Leon's running and the illusion shifts, then the first stage begins. Have it be dark, yet beautiful. I'd love from the trees to some how provide obsticles THEMSELVES for Leon, perhaps shifting and falling. You encounter your first boss before finding Rinaldo's Cabin, a Werewolf.

Unfortunately Leon would have to fight the werewolf with his fists or some weapon small enough to hide in his armour (his sword belonged to his company and so he no longer carries it).

[Alexc2808]

In Reply To #5
IGA did not make any of the levels in LoI, or any game since SoTN for that matter.  Hopefully whoever does the level design on the 1st current gen Cv title (excluding the Wii) will be able to make the taller tower levels.  There are also plenty better games to get Cv level design from then Metriod Prime.  I think it was probably due to the limited amount of information a DVD can hold.  Hopefully HD-DVD and especially Blu-ray would provide better.

[The Last Belmont]

In Reply To #5
Metriod Prime.

[Long John Silver]

the video sequences and music take well over half of the dvd since their compression level was poor. i don't think space was the cause of the level design.

[E. Alexer Belmont]

I'd basically add a lot of what you all alreayd noted:

- Forest Called Eternal Night as a full intro stage. Start at the scene where Leon's running and the illusion shifts, then the first stage begins. Have it be dark, yet beautiful. I'd love from the trees to some how provide obsticles THEMSELVES for Leon, perhaps shifting and falling. You encounter your first boss before finding Rinaldo's Cabin, a Werewolf.

- Stages are structured more intellegently to provide obsticles, platforming AND opportunities for story progression. AS WELL AS try to make each location look varied. Halls can look simliar, but take the time to make rooms look unique. Platforms can DEFINATELY add to this(try to make no platforming rooms the same).

- More variety assortment of monsters(except having the same monster models but different texture mapping). Bone Pillars should've been monsters, not traps. And yes, Medusa Heads!

- With the a stage crafted perfectly for story progression, use this opportunity to add more depth to characters and story. It would've been interesting to know a little more about Walter other than, "I'm so evil and bored that I want to see vampire hunters brave through my castle labyrinth!".

- More sub-boss moments like the Doppelganger battles. A great placed sub-boss can slow down game progession to aid story sequences.

Fuck Yeah Legacy of Darkness

[darkwzrd4]

I thought the game is good as it is.  However, if it is remade, there are some suggestions that I have and they are in line with most of what all of you have been saying.  Here they are:

(1) The Forest of Eternal Night should be its own true area.  (Rinado's house would be the starting point, but it would be further from the castle and there would be enemies in between)
(2) Instead of having a warp room that warps you to the individual areas, they areas of the castle should be inter-connected like they are in SotN.
(3) Each area should have at least one warp room of its own that connects with the others within the castle.
(4) There should be more bosses and mini-bosses (the game is too short)
(5) The existing areas, with the exception of the Garden Forgotten by Time and the Ghostly Theatre, should be completely redone.
(6) There should be more areas (hopefully a couple of towers including a clock tower)
(7) Leon and the other playable characters should be levelable. (at least Leon if know one else)
( There should be more types of equipment. (Arms, Legs, head, etc.)