Topic: 64 Vania Fans Only Post, Please

[Malus]

In Reply To #14

Your opinion is respected. Disagreements are far more interesting to me, and you opinion is respected. Maybe I'm over extending the love here for these games. But it makes sense if were writing constructive posts as oppose to un-constructive, which is what yours is.

The reason I titled it that way was to keep it constructive. uzo, most people have bad taste, you would appear to be in the majority. People with good taste, who gave the games a chance, appreciate what KCEK was aiming for. A darker castlevania.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I love those games, but LoD far more.  I play it via Emulation (although I do have the cartridge) via Project64.

I love the Villa and the Tower of Sorcery.  The music for both of those, especially. 

And the Art Tower in LoD with Cornell.

[X]

Tower of ruins dudes! It's all about the ruins. Nothing like a crumbly old castle collapsing all around you while you struggle not to fall through the floor.

-X

[uzo]

In Reply To #16

And there in lies the fundamental flaw in all of this. They were aiming for a good dark Castlevania. Which, I agree, would be really good. Their concept was fairly spot on, minus maybe the non-Belmont, but that's just my taste.

The issue comes in with execution. They had a great concept, but executed it horribly. Which in turn makes it not a good game.

Most people don't like it because it wasn't executed well. Controls were clunky, camera was horrid, the combat was malformed, and overall just didn't have that same standard of quality and polish the other titles in the series had.

It receives a very small cult status, because some people simply choose to ignore what's wrong with the game in favor of imagining it as if it were executed correctly.

This behaviour is inherently denial. Its not a bad game to you because you realize what it should have been, but even though it isn't what it should have been, you blindly ignore the faults that make it a bad game. As you've said before, it took a few play-throughs to really get use to the camera and controls. That by itself is the mark of a bad game.

So while I disagree that the game itself is of any real quality, I agree the concept they tried to execute was good.

I think at heart that really is the best way I can sum up my feelings toward the game, and the way its fans can defend it so vigorously.

All without flame bait, amazing. I bet you all didn't think I could do it!

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

In Reply To #19

Nice, but you should've done that in the first place.
And I disagree in that I believe the merits far outweigh the flaws.

I don't need a perfect game, just an enjoyable one, and I enjoyed those games for what they were, at the time they came out.  If something ever achieve 'flawless' status, that's nice, but it's not necessary.  I'm not gonna go and knock CV1 because of lack of controlled jumps or lack of backtracking to the previous area behind the door; I understand that this is not a flaw, but a feature in the game.

While I do agree about improper camera usage (it's really not that bad, though, and way improved in LoD), I still think it's an alright game.

But I grow tired of defending with the same lines every time troll behavior about the game shows up.

[Malus]

In Reply To #19

I don't agree with you completely but I do agree with your criticism partially. It is a broken game. But, when I played it back in 1999 at the age of 13-14 it really pulled me in. I fell in love not with the bad controls, or pain in the neck camera control, or even with the graphics. I just liked the atmosphere and sense of dread and dilipadation that the game presents.

Its probably not as good as I've made it out to be. But I still play it, probably have put in 300 to 500 hours on it, so for me the pros outweigh the cons.

Legacy is 5 steps forward 4 steps back form 64. In many ways though it is better I still lean 64 because I like its forest of silence stage more, and carrie is more powerful.

Overall though I admit that at best the 64 vania's are broken masterpieces. What they nailed imo was atmosphere, mood, tone. It has a coldness that attracts me, I really love some parts of the game, some parts are not so great.

The forest of silence, castle wall, and villa are awesome. The rest of the levels aren't as good, save for the castle center. Imo malus, is really cool, Reinhardt looks like a warrior, even if his belmont ties are weak at best. Carrie is a lot more fun though.

to each his own, your second post was much more comprehensive and understandable. Still if the games were polished up, and re-released, I think we might have something on our hands. Why? Because the art style is spot on, their's nothing in castlevania that compares to the villa stage, not even sotn can reach their. As bad as it may be to you, the villa stage of the 64 vania's are untouched and unrivaled in all of castlevaniadom.

[Malus]

The majority of fans of the 64 vania's seem to like Legacy much more, but me and another member on here, DoctaMario for whatever odd reasons we've both given really like the original more than the follow up.

who needs cornell? Who needs the ship stage? I can live with a slightly worse camera for a more powerful character, Carrie. Plus the original tower of science is way better, so is the original Duel-tower. And the graphical improvements in Legacy are so minimal. Slightly better quality sound, slightly better looking characters. So what no sub-weapon powerups or main weapon powerups? That makes the game too easy anyway.

this is coming from a fan that might well be unrivaled on planet earth of Castlevania 64. I have the original Millenium Poster hanging in a glass frame above my bed. I've put in more hours and playthroughs than 99% of Castlevania 64 fans or Castlevania players period.

What does that make me, other then a complete jerk for wasting all that time?

a series nutjob probably!

[TerraEsperZ]

I guess I too love the N64 Castlevanias more for what they could have been instead of what they were, but despite all their flaws, they were still enjoyable and very playable games. Heck, I swore about as much at Super Mario 64's camera.

But anyway, what I'll always love the game for most is the direction they were headed for. While the series has long since gone the way of elaborately dressed characters with flamboyant attacks and ridiculously overblown dialogs, Castlevania 64 and Legacy Of Darkness went instead for a darker, somber atmosphere that was closer to the Brahm Stocker vampire myth.

It (CV64) didn't always seem to know what kind of game it was, but I liked how varied the stages were. Some concentrated on combat, others on adventure or just plain platforming.

And most importantly, in many places it carried a sense of wonder which was helped by the music which wasn't as elaborate as previous games, but it served the game well.

In other words, even though combat is at the core of the CV franchise, the N64 games made me realize that there is place for much more, but sadly most recent games haven't realized that.

[E. Alexer Belmont]

In Reply To #19

Just relax, man

[gravekeeper]

In Reply To #24

You just had to add that last little line, didn't you? Pretty childish of you.. Just because you disslike Castlevania to N64, doesn't automaticly make you an igavania fan.

Anyway, I'd have to agree with Uzo on this. You pretty much took the words out of my mouth. I think LoD had a great concept and they were on the right path, but they just didn't make it well enough for me to enjoy it. If LoD was remade properly it'd be great. To me, LoD is an unpolished diamond.

[Malus]

I guess I too love the N64 Castlevanias more for what they could have been instead of what they were, but despite all their flaws, they were still enjoyable and very playable games. Heck, I swore about as much at Super Mario 64's camera.

But anyway, what I'll always love the game for most is the direction they were headed for. While the series has long since gone the way of elaborately dressed characters with flamboyant attacks and ridiculously overblown dialogs,

Castlevania 64 and Legacy Of Darkness went instead for a darker, somber atmosphere that was closer to the Brahm Stocker vampire myth.

It (CV64) didn't always seem to know what kind of game it was, but I liked how varied the stages were. Some concentrated on combat, others on adventure or just plain platforming.

And most importantly, in many places it carried a sense of wonder which was helped by the music which wasn't as elaborate as previous games, but it served the game well.

In other words, even though combat is at the core of the CV franchise, the N64 games made me realize that there is place for much more, but sadly most recent games haven't realized that.

I agree with this post. there is something "more" that these games have than meets the eye. A darker, more sombre approach. Castlevania main characters that are imposing and not dressed like push-overs. A pretty solid music score too, really good and very ambient. I'd say that the games speak to some of us, and some can't or refuse to look at their shinning qualities.

Combat is less refined than the PS2 vania's but lets remember this was the first 3d attempt, and it also came after the highly regarded Symphony of the Night. Maybe because that game did everything right, and the 64 games did a few things wrong, or poorly it got the shaft.

[Mikepjr]

I loved the N64 castlevanias.. i think the only thing i disliked was some of the areas had no music.
When going through the forest i would have loved to have heard bloody tears or something playing.. some levels or areas had no music playing.

I stop buying newer CV games.. i wont elaborate on why.. but im slowly becoming an old school gamer.. my games have been made.. the new stuff is no longer interesting to me.. same thing with me and TV.. im sick of TV and movies.. cause my TV shows and movies have been made or never will be made.

Same with games.. my games have been made or never will be made.
Now i know how people who were older then me when i was younger felt lol.

But back to C64.. i loved it.. i mean for me it was the last good 3D CV game.. it was 3D without the need of tapping buttons over and over doing combos.. it was straight out with the whip aginst a badguy and only took a few hits, it was a great way of transitioning CV into 3D compared to the other 3D cv games that have come out.

[Malus]

In Reply To #27

I agree that the one hit attacks worked well for the 64 vania's. The combo system in the PS2 vania's for me was a bit repetitive. It wasn't well done like in Devil May Cry, or Ninja Gaiden.

Your post brings up some good arguments on whether or not gaming has gone down hill. I think its a mixed bag. Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion IMO craps on any other Nex-Gen video game experience. I love the games art, graphics, music and that some of my most pleasurable and relaxing moments were  spent playing it. A very immersive RPG! Should be banned for addiction much like Sotn. Oblivion plays like a vacation without typical issues like food which upsets you and other vacation crap.

And Oblivion released in 2006, 07 on PS3. I personally don't watch T.V other than news occasionally. Back on topic, I think that the CV series has gone from good/impressive to okay/poor. The music is the only shinning quality consistent in the CV series, imo.

[Baigan]

I think the repetitive combo system in LoI makes it more subtle of a 'combo' system and hence, more similar to what came before.

I don't like a more powerful Carrie. She wastes all forms of Dracula.

And a drawback of Legacy: Throwing in ALL SIX towers for Cornell needlessly increased the redundancy of the other quests. I think the fact that they called them "Towers" added to the monotony, whereas if they were thought of as different "rooms" it would be normal for Castlevania. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Malus]

In Reply To #29

Cornell's quest just plain out sucks! He's a stupid character and his story his lifeless. His stages are terrible! Outer wall is okay, but after that the art tower and tower of ruins fail!

I like a powerful Carrie, her basic fighting against enemies is perfectly balanced in CV 64, they messed her up in the balancing department in Legacy.

there is a quality to 64 over legacy that I find lovely, its uncut. its direct, cold and barren. The same reasons why most people hate it, I Love it!

its like silent hill meets castlevania! It really is a broken masterpiece. Though I admit their are many parts where there is no music playing, that kind of adds a charm to it for me.

I know that I'm in the minority, and as far as lament of innocence goes you'd pretty much have to pay me to play that game.

no joke, that's how mind numbling boring and souless that game and its successor are.