Topic: Let's Play NitM

[Sonic_Reaper]

So after many, many, many, MANY years, I am finally able (rather my computer is) to play NitM thanks to emulators.  I've read a ton about it, seen videos, and so on, but now I finally have the chance to play it.  I still see some discussion about which is better (SotN or NitM) on message boards, and hopefully for those who haven't played it (for whatever reason), this thread can help you "see the light".  Differences I've noticed while playing the game (in comparison to SotN);

It plays slow as hell.  This could be computer speed/emulator issues, but I doubt it, since there are rooms where it runs at SotN-level FPS, but most of the time, since there's something happening on-screen, or there are enemies, or whatever, there is always a noticable dip in the gamespeed.  Especially noticable in parallax heavy areas.  For "fun", backdash through the area in the library with all the books and see how many books you can have trailing you at one time.  Until your Saturn/computer explodes.

Speaking of books, they no longer glow red when you hit them.  Something probably happened during porting, is my guess, or something to do with them being 3D objects instead of 2D.  On the topic of effects, all I can say is:  dithering much?  Now, granted, the Saturn, from its hardware limitations, is unable to produce true transparent effects, but, I've seen it in other Saturn games (whether it was trickery, or the programmers somehow figured it out), but it's lack is especially ugly here in comparison to SotN.  In SotN, swords were transparent, or rather, the swing effect that accompanied them was.  In NitM, all the swords are hot-solid chunky messes.  It causes Alucard's swing to look a bit bulkier and sloppier than his SotN doppelganger's.  And on that topic, some swords are downright missing their special effect animations.  The spiral swirl of happiness that accompanied many of the katana weapons seems to be missing.  So for those that complained that too many of the swords in SotN shared the same attack animation, you'll be especially infuriated here.

There is one thing I should mention, that automatically dooms NitM to the realm of the unauthentic, and that is, the native Saturn resolution caused the SotN graphics to be stretched beyond their original size.  The effect, especially noticable on a computer monitor, is that for every four pixels or so, that particular (vertical) line of pixels is duplicated.  This is done so that the Playstation resolution, at which the graphics were originally created, could work in place of the Saturn resolution.  Call me critical, but I'd rather have black bars on either side.  The weirdest part of all of this is that the new graphics created exclusively for the Saturn version were created in the Saturn resolution.  Maria, who has a mix of frames from both SotN and NitM, is especially noticable as she alternates dress sizes between various attacks and animations.  I am confuzzled as to why they didn't simply create her new frames in the SotN resolution, then stretch the shit out of them like everything else in the game.  It probably has something to do with how the game is emulated, I take it.  Which is, needless to say, not very well.

The marionettes have weird death animations too.  While rotation is used, as it was in SotN, it's missing in some places.  The floating bones as you travel between teleport rooms, don't rotate here.  They float, then fall.  The timing, actually, on the flash of light, has been changed in NitM.  In SotN, you'd teleport, the bones would get sucked into the portal (while rotating), then you'd appear, the bones floating, and rotating, then they would fall.  In NitM, you teleport, the bones get sucked into the portal (while moving in a very stiff manner, no rotation), you appear, and the screen is still inexplicably bright, it returns to normal lighting, JUST to catch the bones falling.  Dammit, where are my snazzy rotation effects?  The marionettes, I guess, suffered this same fate, as in NitM, they fall flat on their face, and explode into a weird portal vortex thing.  Yeah, okay.

Back to dithering.  It's ugly, okay?  Like, I can't express this enough.  Almost everything that was transparent before is now either solid or dithered, and it looks awful.  The mist form is inexplicably awful.  Just, holy christ the charm of the original with its simple swirling graphics, transpanceries and rotation, well, that's nowhere to be found.

New areas, new enemies.  I don't really know how to feel about these.  The astral dagger, the one that you can throw into the air and have home-in on the nearest enemy, yeah, it sucks.  The effect is neat, but it's too much of a novelty.  It's slow, and for every special attack you make with it, you could have attacked the enemy two or three times with another weapon, not to mention it leaves you completely exposed as Alucard does his fancy dance.  The Alucard spear.  Slow.  The special attack doesn't make sense.  Two laser prongs shoot out of the spear, and Alucard slides forward as he does with the Zweihander weapons in SotN.  But the colors on the spear suck.  Brown wood base with neutral grey tip.  Can we get anymore literal?  Probably not.  Not to mention its regular attack animation is a forward SWING.  I thought spears were meant to be thrusted.  I will admit that the Rainbow Cloak is pretty cool.  But the color choices aren't random, it cycles between a few interesting complementary colors (wow these guys know their color wheel!), but it's not replacement for the awesome twilight cloak, which is so fucking ugly, and totally NON-TRANSPARENT, that charm takes another horrendous kick to the balls.  The Godspeed shoes are too little too late my dear friends.  Michael Jackson style moonwalking is still the fastest way to go.

Maria, Maria, what to say.  Your jump sucks.  Give me a double jump anyday over your short, can't-clear-normal-gaps midget hop.  What's the point of a triple jump when the jump height is decreased?  I don't get it.  She plays fast and furious, and she is strong, but she feels awkward at times.  There is much enjoyment to be had from running through the castle and mowing everything down, that is, when everything is going well and your timing is good.  There are times, however, when her moves don't feel appropriate to any situation.  Her running jump kick can sometimes get you quickly from point A to point B, but other times the varied landscape impedes its usefulness.  The slide would be good, but it doesn't cause damage.  So then what the heck is the point, since it can't clear angled ground?  Alucard is still King.  Wingsmash has received a rediculous upgrade.  It doesn't stop, till your head explodes.  But it almost seems unfair.  Alucard was already a beast.  I guess I'm just nitpicking though, since it's now easier to clear those long hallways.  Maria is still an oddity though.  She is very nimble, but some design mistakes were made that creates a paradox in her playstyle.  Triple jump, yep, but they're shorter than normal jumps.  Incredible speed, yep, but her running jump kick is stopped by obstacles, and her slide does not cause damage.  Her playstyle, then, is strange, in that, in order to "proceed", you are encouraged to kill whatever is in your way.  Unlike Richter, where you have the choice to pass through enemies quite easily, Maria, without the use of her invincibility spell (which is difficult to do, on the spot), doesn't have a lot of maneuver options.  But what she's made to do, that is, destroy everything in her path, she does well, and bosses go down in record time.

Back to the new areas, hm, whoever coined the term "enemies-on-shelves", must have, at least subconsciously, been referring to this game, initially.  It's the PoR before PoR.  If not, worse.  And the new areas are just ugly.  Those weird fluorescent green/violet lantern things in the Cursed Prison, man, so third rate.  Not to mention the ugly as sin MS Paint "pipes" that line the Underground Garden.  The background, doesn't even make any sense.  I guess you're inside an omninous purple cloud, or something.

Overall, it's been a pretty disappointing experience.  Between the horrible emulation, bastardized special effects, and half-assed new "additions", the game just feels like a bad fan hack.  SotN is still definitely the "complete" version.  It plays the way it was meant to be played, and the special effects, attacks and all that, aren't compromised.  The new additions in the Saturn version, really, do not add to the experience.  Instead, they tend to stick out, the same way that the new "spear" weapons for Mog and Edgar stood out in FFVIA, in that, they were swords disguised as spears, because the new programmers weren't competent enough, or understand the original game design well enough, to create a product that was truly an authentic extension, and not a crumbling wooden shack attached to an immaculate mansion.  And they added some tacky Elvis figurines for "decoration", too.  It's all just wholly unecessary, yeah, hey, I'll stick with that, describes NitM perfectly.

[X]

The only thing NitM had going for it was the extra two areas, some tid-bits here and there, the extra music, the extra familier cards (now included in the PSP version) and the extra items not found in SotN. What really brought the game down was the console it was on. While good in most fields, the Dreamcast just couldn't emulate past the same setbacks as it's predecessor's predecessor; the Genesis. One of the complaints was that the game was "stretched" thus doubbling the pixel ratio. That was completely unecessary cause we don't see that in the PSX version and it was fine. Some of the other drawbacks was the silly-looking enemies they used in the underground garden. I'd expect to see those types of enemies in a Rondo-Maria game, not SotN.

-X

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

dreamcast?
it was the sega saturn dude lol
how you could get the 2 mixed up it beyond me

[Felix]

The reason I would ever, ever play this is because the new areas. Too bad thay are NOT included in the PSP version of SoTN. Too bad, I guess. 

[Munchy]

Playing this on an emu > playing this on an actual Saturn.

At least on my laptop, the emu makes it so that there's almost no slowdown. So badass.

[X]

dreamcast?
it was the sega saturn dude lol Cheesy
how you could get the 2 mixed up it beyond me Grin

You're right, it was the Saturn. I can't believe I forgot about that. See this is what happenes when when a company makes one CDRom console after another. They screw you up big time 

-X

[VGuyver]

So strange that they had such problems with the Saturn, I mena, the PS1 didn't even have a 2D graphics card, everything went through the 3D processer via a processing tick togive it's 2D results. The Saturn had a great 2D processor built into it, and yet it failed eppicly. I suppose it's merely a result of trying to port over the game in a rushed reused coding instead of doing a complete revamp, but stil...

[Profbeanburrito]

I don't think there is anything that great about this version. The new areas suck, and are completely useless. The new music isn't that great, and playing as Maria isn't that fun. The visual effects suck too. I'd rather play the original SotN than this, and the version from DXC has all the stuff from the original Japanese version, plus a better Maria gameplay. There really isn't anything that makes this game superior, in fact I think they made it worst by adding that stuff.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I don't think there is anything that great about this version. The new areas suck, and are completely useless. The new music isn't that great, and playing as Maria isn't that fun. The visual effects suck too. I'd rather play the original SotN than this, and the version from DXC has all the stuff from the original Japanese version, plus a better Maria gameplay. There really isn't anything that makes this game superior, in fact I think they made it worst by adding that stuff.

correction
they added that stuff BECAUSE it was worser then the original
you know to try to take attention away from the sucky effects and longer loading times

[knightmere]

If this game runs slow on your PC emu then get a computer that isn't a piece of shit.  On my PC, the game runs FASTER then PSX version on the SSF emulator.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

If this game runs slow on your PC emu then get a computer that isn't a piece of shit.  On my PC, the game runs FASTER then PSX version on the SSF emulator.

wtf are you talking about?
its a FACT that NITM has slower freaken load times dude not including a freaken emulator because ain't piracy illegal?
we'll on the "SATURN" it has slower load times.
don't believe me actually go and READ articles and reviews on it dude before saying stupid shit like you just said ok
god i swear people don't even think before posting sometimes
we have been talking about the saturn this whole time and yet your going to bring emulation into the discussion and call my computer a piece of shit lol.
GTFO outta here seriously dude and don't come back untill you undestand wut were discussing and actually bring something relevent to the discussion

[Sonic_Reaper]

Uhm, I think he's talking about my computer.  And it's brand new.  Like I said, the game runs well in some areas, but there's definite slowdown in most others.  I imagine that's how the Saturn version is like, from what I've gathered talking to other people.  Another complaint, while I'm here, ha, I never found the Holy Sword in NitM.  In SotN it's in the hidden ceiling in the coliseum, and I always look forward to getting it because it's quick as hell and the special attack is dope.  In NitM, there's a familiar card there and nothing else.  I'm not sure where it's hidden here, but I was annoyed at not finding it, and having to resort to whatever other weapon I was using at the time.

[Dark Nemesis]

Sword Lord drops Holy Sword. He's spectral form.

[Felix]

Uhm, I think he's talking about my computer.  And it's brand new.  Like I said, the game runs well in some areas, but there's definite slowdown in most others.  I imagine that's how the Saturn version is like, from what I've gathered talking to other people.  Another complaint, while I'm here, ha, I never found the Holy Sword in NitM.  In SotN it's in the hidden ceiling in the coliseum, and I always look forward to getting it because it's quick as hell and the special attack is dope.  In NitM, there's a familiar card there and nothing else.  I'm not sure where it's hidden here, but I was annoyed at not finding it, and having to resort to whatever other weapon I was using at the time.

From what I know, the HS is found only in the North American and European versions. Neither the Japanese PSX version or NiTM have it there. So start slaying vandal swords.

[uzo]

Sonic Reaper is correct on all counts. I too have played it, and found it to be a completely inferior version. The fake transparency really is God awful.