Topic: How popular IS Castlevania?

[DingusBelmondo]

I've often wondered this, but by looking at Lords of Shadow I guess the answer was "not popular enough". But I always wondered, as such an established series where it stood. Clearly it doesn't have nearly as huge of a following as Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Metal Gear Soild, Final Fantasy ect. But what about Ninja Gaiden, or Contra. I mean, I know that this forum isn't the ONLY community out there, and not all fans are active members. But then again, it's had a hell of a lot of games. Any ideas?

[Kale]

It's a cult game, there are fans, and quite a few but not a tremendous amount. There are also people who enjoy a game now and then, but it's just whatever for them.

[shelverton.]

Judging by the sheer number of Castlevania games released, this old franchise is probably selling more than Dave Cox would have you believe. It's clearly not up there with the likes of Halo or Final Fantasy, but Konami would've pulled the plug long ago if Castlevania wasn't making them any money. No one keeps making unprofitable games.

I would think Castlevania is more popular than, say, Contra or Gradius. It's probably the same as Ninja Gaiden, though NG found a whole new fanbase with the XBOX game. If done right, LoS could give Castlevania a similar boost in popularity.

[RichterB]

I basically agree with shelverton's assessment. The thing is, Castlevania used to be on the heels of series like Mario and Zelda in terms of notoriety between about 1987 and 1992. However, after the success of Super Castlevania IV, there was nothing that really hit big in the consciousness of gamers until Symphony of the Night.

Essentially, the marketing/managaging of the series after SCIV was inconsistent. Castlevania had made its fame as a franchise on Nintendo home consoles, and after IV, Rondo of Blood was not only released on PC Engine, but was not even released in the US (until recently). Moreover, even though Rondo had some interesting gameplay ideas, one has to wonder what people would have thought about the loss of effects and dynamic swing controls found in SCIV.

When Castlevania finally made its way back to the US 3 years later, it was on the Genesis with Bloodlines--which split the fanbase in terms of console ownership. Then, 1995, Dracula X for the SNES arrived. (Despite being a very fun entry in my opinion), it was doomed for three reasons: It was not the infamous Rondo of Blood that some wanted, it did not have as much control or visual innovation as SCIV, and it was years removed from the release (and gamer awareness) of the last universally successful Castlevania title.

In 1997, with Sony Playstation bringing renewed interest in gaming, Symphony of the Night was released. In actuality, I don't know if this game was a well-received off the bat as SCIV, but it would go on to reignite interest in Castlevania and redefine the series for many. Again, the follow-ups would take a different route in terms of design and console with CV64 and LoD, which split the fanbase (these games were actually quite good, but people forgot that Castlevania is always trying to innovate and were hoping for a continuation of Symphony of the Night). The turning point--and curse--for Castlevania, was the release of Circle of the Moon. It was on the anticipated Nintendo GBA platform as a launch title and combined classic whip action with the style of SotN. It did pretty well; but it set an unsettling trend of also-rans. After that title, IGA took over and continued the SotN pattern with a few, random exceptions (Chronicles, Judgment). I think Lament of Innocence actually, ever-so-slightly captured imaginations that Castlevania might rise again, but the release of Curse of Darkness killed the momentum. (And stuff like Judgment, even with good intentions, has made Castlevania seem like a niche joke). The Adventure Rebirth was a nice nod to what the series is all about, but it's a drop in the bucket...and with the way gamers are used to Metroidvania now, it probably seemed weird to the mainstream modern crowd.

In the end, Lords of Shadow is in an interesting situation. It has a lot of buzz from those with a historical sense of gaming, but it doesn't appear to be on the radar of the mainstream God of War, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden fans. The truth is, the name Castlevania is associated with portable Metroidvania/Sotn-nostalgia these days. Thus, the name Castlevania doesn't hold a lot of clout. I think the best outcome is Castlevania getting a revival of Ninja Gaiden's level...but that wasn't wholly true to the essence of Ninja Gaiden and also has never risen Ninja Gaiden to the heights of the top series. I'm concerned that the desire to make LoS more mainstream has crippled its ability to stand out from the crowd and capture any of the top spots in gaming.

(As an aside, you mentioned Metroid as a successful franchise, but that's a more recent trend. While the first 3 did well, the series was all but forgotten until the success of Metroid Prime. Since then, it's been more visible, but is still fighting to find its modern voice).

[X]

I think Castlevania is extremely popular and that's due to the fact that we fans constantly bash IGA for messing around with the series and making inapropreate and unesissary changes that not only conflict with what we love but also about what we know about the series itself.

-X

[shelverton.]

Video game fans in general complain about two things;
1) When their favourite game series changes.
2) When their favourite game series doesn't change.

Hardcore fans basically wants to play the same old game over and over and over, but whenever a company starts to repeat itself, we don't want it anymore. How ungrateful is that? With Castlevania, I think Konami has been very generous, giving us many different types of games (some good, some not so good. But at least they tried.). I like what IGA did with the series. I don't necessarily care for all of his games, but he kinda saved the franchise from fading into obscurity. That obviously comes with a price - in this case we've been BOMBARDED with Metroidvanias for the last 10 years, but if it hadn't been for them, I think Castlevania would've been kinda dead today.

[Kale]

No change is bad, bad change is bad. We want change, we just don't want bad change.

A change we'd all welcome, I'd think is HD graphics. or a good 3d CV, that's kind of like NG or DMC, and for some of yous (not me) GoW.

[Nagumo]

One thing that disappoints me (maybe the most) about Lords of Shadow that it doesn't have the east meets west vibe that old Castlevania games have and instead goes for some kind off epic fantasy feel which, I'm sure we can all agree on, was never what the series was about. That's an example of bad change.

                   

[Ahasverus]

I once read that CV fan comunitty "Is a little larger than Megaman's but more exigent". Nice description i think. The problem with CV is that, if you remember well, Konami doesn't make a lot of cartriges, for example, HOD had 600000 MADE units. It's a cult franchise, but that's because Konami wants it to be, for the past 10 years, it have been a safe cash maker to produce their other games (MGS, SH,PES), that's what I'm glad they gave a good budget to MS (Even though KOjima's help was needed, a LOT) 

[ReinhardtSchneider]

I always thought Castlevania as a hugely popular franchise, but that's when I wasn't a fan.  I only started liking the series in the last 3 or 4 years, and now I am very much into the series.  Now when I try to talk to people about it, it seems more people don't know about it than do.  It upset me at first, I guess Castlevania is not as popular as I thought. But thinking back, I'm glad it's not. I like it being a cult franchise as it always seemed when something got too popular it would turn to garbage.  Long live Castlevania!

[e105beta]

Bad change is ultimately an opinion, which is why there's always a group of fans complaining. Some fans want this to change MORE some fans want it to change LESS, so nobody is always happy.

That's ultimately the problem that a series encounters when it caters to a very specific fanbase. Sure those fans are happy, but is it ultimately what is best for the series? The fanbase thinks that the purpose of the series is to cater to their interests, but a company sees its purpose as to make money. When the company doesn't listen to the longtime fans, the fans see it as betrayal. That's essentially what Castlevania has hit. The fanbase is large enough to make a profit off of, but if Konami's goal is to increase growth (which is essentially the goal of all companies) it's not making enough money.

In comes Lords of Shadow. Konami is trying to see if they can expand their sales by trying something new. I see nothing wrong with this. If people like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. Ultimately I want Konami to succeed as a company so I can get more Castlevania. With IGA's recent entries, I think Konami is getting ready to small time Castlevania if things don't go well for Cox.

Ideally this would mean expanding the fanbase, but if they find a new fanbase which is bigger than the one Castlevania already has, they have no reason to not jump ship. Nintendo did the exact same thing with the Wii and they made tons of moolah. Like it or not, that's why games are made.

So to answer the original question, Castlevania was hugely popular, and has been in relative decline ever since SotN. I mention it's one of my favorite series, and I tend to get blank stares from 90% of my college mates, and that's saying something considering I'm majoring in video game development.

[X]

If people like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. Ultimately I want Konami to succeed as a company so I can get more Castlevania.

I wouldn'y worry about this too much. If and when Konami co. goes belly-up, then whatever they have will be bought out by other companies including Castlevania. Following this logic, it is reasonable to assume that 'said company' will continue the frachise due to it's popularity cause they know it'll make them money. If not then we have the fanbase to give us our homebrews.

-X

[corneliab]

Castlevania homebrews either suck completely or are never finished. God help us if that happens.

[e105beta]

If people like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. Ultimately I want Konami to succeed as a company so I can get more Castlevania.

I wouldn'y worry about this too much. If and when Konami co. goes belly-up, then whatever they have will be bought out by other companies including Castlevania. Following this logic, it is reasonable to assume that 'said company' will continue the frachise due to it's popularity cause they know it'll make them money. If not then we have the fanbase to give us our homebrews.

-X

True the company will go on, but if Castlevania fails, we'll just get more Metal Gears. Not that I don't like Metal Gear, but I want to see Castlevania.

I mean, if you were a company that sold steak and chicken, and then people stopped liking your chicken, despite changing the recipe a few times, would you still sell the chicken?

[DragonSlayr81]

I mean, if you were a company that sold steak and chicken, and then people stopped liking your chicken, despite changing the recipe a few times, would you still sell the chicken?

That's a strange analogy. What I would say is DON'T stop selling the chicken, but hire someone who can make it work. Then branch out in the food market. Why stop at JUST steak and chicken? Why not sell fish, as well? Bring up the variety of ways you can serve such meants(Hamburgers, grilled fish, friend fish, friend chicken, rotisserie chicken, chicken soup, stew, pizza, stir fry, ....). I mean, if you WANT a bigger place in the market, why are you JUST going to stop selling chicken and continue to sell JUST fish? You're going to expand your business to cover many tastes.