Topic: Lords of Shadow = NOT a GoW clone

[Vampire Killer]

Hello all, been lurking here for quite some time and have finally decided to join in on the fun.

Anyhoo, I've been noting lately, especially on sites like gametrailers and whatnot, that for every group of pics posted or new gameplay/theatrical trailer shown for Lords of Shadow, there is a slew of idiots saying that it looks "just like" God of War.

There are many problems with this line of thinking, but I'll focus on just a few.

1). CV, the series, has been around a long damn time. Long before GoW was ever a twinkle in David Jaffe's eye, CV was there. The whip has been a staple of combat in CV in almost every game in the series. Granted, some of the best games in the series have had multiple weapon wielding protagonist, but overall the whip has reigned. This means that LoS is NOT cloning GoW, but the opposite. Once again, CV came first.

2). Seeing a the whip is the staple CV weapon, how the hell else do these morons expect a 3D CV to look and play like?  Now matter what you do, any attempts to make a CV in 3D (unless you make the main character use something other than a whip as a primary weapon, in which case the haters would then complain all the more that the game doesn't look like CV) will result in whip like actions somewhat similar to GoW in appearance, due to the fact that by their very nature whips work in a swinging fashion.  How else were you expecting the new whip like weapon in LoS (called the Combat Cross I think) to work? Can you even think of a way to not have this be the case?  You might as well say that any game that has a gun as the characters main weapon in a clone of Doom, or some older game, since Doom had guns, and it came first.

3). The gameplay, at least from what I've seen, is not anymore a clone of GoW, than every other action game out there are clones of each other. The fact is that videogames evolve in their design over the years by copying from each other, building on the great design ideas of other titles and improving upon them. Every so often, someone will develop a gameplay design that is innovative enough to become an industry standard. Before GoW there was Devil May Cry. Before that there were 3D fighting games, and before that 2D fighting games, and so on and so forth. Yes, LoS probably has some similarities to GoW in it's gameplay, but it also has similarities to other games as well. Same goes for GoW.  Whoop-de-shite! Get over it.


Lastly, some of you really need to stop complaining about the game not being a carbon copy of old school CV. Personally, I think the idea of the Combat Cross is really cool. It's like they took several of the staple CV weapons, and made them into one. And if your entire possible enjoyment of LoS weighs on whether or not something like medusa heads are included, that says much more about you, than it does about the quantifiable quality of the game itself. Learn to embrace something new, you just might be surprised. I really didn't like the idea behind Metroid Prime at first, didn't seem 'Metroid-like' enough for my tastes. After playing through it though, it ended up being one of my favorite games of that generation.  When you move from 2D to 3D, certain gameplay changes and omissions are an absolute necessity. Learn to cope.

[Abnormal Freak]

Too fucking long and shitty; didn't read.

Also, you could have, you know, posted this in any one of the other threads discussing the game.

But thanks for your input anyway!

[Vampire Killer]

Thank you internet, you never let me down. 

If a mod wants to graft this into another thread, feel free.

I figured that some people might want to discuss a particular aspect of the game itself, namely the GoW clone complaints, in it's own thread by itself, w/out have to sift through 200+ pages.

[Kale]

They wouldn't, it would be at the end, where anyone looking will see for a good while.

I agree somewhat, except the "it's the opposite" since GoW gameplay did come first. But I'mhoping its not close to being a clone cuz I would not like what I'm playing.

What I hate are teh QTE grabs I'm seeing and Dave Cox lying about it... but whatever, better to continue this in the other thread.

[Abnormal Freak]

Sorry for being a jackass, but hey, I guess I just don't take kindly to being called an idiot, even if indirectly, ha.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I'll let the thread stand... but unfortunately all you've done is 'split' the argument, as just because now there's a thread about it doesn't mean that argument will not continue in the other thread.
Now it's just gonna be a double helping of it!

As for the topic, I will reserve judgment until I play the thing.  I will buy the game, then I will state my thoughts on it.  For the record, although I don't like God of War, I like Dante's Inferno... and I hope this is similar to that one in that there's platforming in Dante's Inferno (wallclimbing/grabbing, hook swinging, and platform jumping).

[Vampire Killer]

Sorry for being a jackass, but hey, I guess I just don't take kindly to being called an idiot, even if indirectly, ha.

Hmmm, I guess I did do that didn't I? Sorry about that. The 'internet' is strong with me. Need to work on that.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Yeah that probably wasn't the best of starts.  Still, Welcome to the forums!

[Vampire Killer]

They wouldn't, it would be at the end, where anyone looking will see for a good while.

I agree somewhat, except the "it's the opposite" since GoW gameplay did come first. But I'mhoping its not close to being a clone cuz I would not like what I'm playing.

What I hate are teh QTE grabs I'm seeing and Dave Cox lying about it... but whatever, better to continue this in the other thread.

Yeah, I'll admit some of the QTE looked slightly disconcerting, but it's all in how they're handled. I don't mind them at long as they're done right.

[Vampire Killer]

Yeah that probably wasn't the best of starts.  Still, Welcome to the forums!

Doh!!

Once again, sorry.

In other news, I love some of the mixes you've made Jorge. Cool stuff.

[crisis]

If we see Gabriel ripping enemies' heads/body limbs off, spilling their guts all over him & taking giant tree trumps and hurling them, then I'll be pissed.


The scene where Gabriel is clinging onto that tree titan immediately reminded me of Kratos clinging onto Cronos in GoW3. Only difference is Kratos seems way more agile. Nonetheless is still looks fun/challenging.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

@Vampire Killer:
Thanks!  When I get a better machine I'll put videos of said songs on Youtube with snazzy visuals to go along with 'em.

[RichterB]

2). Seeing that the whip is the staple CV weapon, how the hell else do these morons expect a 3D CV to look and play like?  Now matter what you do, any attempts to make a CV in 3D (unless you make the main character use something other than a whip as a primary weapon, in which case the haters would then complain all the more that the game doesn't look like CV) will result in whip like actions somewhat similar to GoW in appearance, due to the fact that by their very nature whips work in a swinging fashion.  How else were you expecting the new whip like weapon in LoS (called the Combat Cross I think) to work? Can you even think of a way to not have this be the case?  You might as well say that any game that has a gun as the characters main weapon in a clone of Doom, or some older game, since Doom had guns, and it came first.

For the sake of devil's advocate, I'll just repost/remix what I said in another thread:

Theoretically, you could have more of a realistic, physics-based whip with recoil, more along the lines of LoI and CV64. Gabe's is more like a flying razor-blade/streamer, or the weapon from the 2009 movie, Ninja Assassin. However, Dave Cox said they want the action to be snappy and Street Fighter-esque, so basically this was the right choice to get that goal done.

The reason there is this cadre of fan resistance, I think, is because traditionally speaking, Castlevania's combat has been more about placement and limited power versus speed and super-power combos. (It's about feeling the hits, too). Gabe is essentially whirling that thing around like a runaway yo-yo. It's definitely kind of cool, but kind of out of control (you see villagers getting hit by his wide, lightning-fast swings and nothing happening to them). In a perfect world, the Castlevania franchise doesn't need the over-the-top combat of GoW/Ninja Gaiden/etc. Who decided that was a must-have action standard? The reason that combat came about was because designers placed people in a room with a gazillion enemies like the old Smash TV game. 3D Combat can be unique without a growing list of pre-set combos where enemies get smacked twenty-plus times. The combat's depth, if true to Castlevania's spirit, should come primarily from level design. (But then that would go against the popular, mainstream grain).

[Vampire Killer]

For the sake of devil's advocate, I'll just repost/remix what I said in another thread:

Theoretically, you could have more of a realistic, physics-based whip with recoil, more along the lines of LoI and CV64. Gabe's is more like a flying razor-blade/streamer, or the weapon from the 2009 movie, Ninja Assassin. However, Dave Cox said they want the action to be snappy and Street Fighter-esque, so basically this was the right choice to get that goal done.

The reason there is this cadre of fan resistance, I think, is because traditionally speaking, Castlevania's combat has been more about placement and limited power versus speed and super-power combos. (It's about feeling the hits, too). Gabe is essentially whirling that thing around like a runaway yo-yo. It's definitely kind of cool, but kind of out of control (you see villagers getting hit by his wide, lightning-fast swings and nothing happening to them). In a perfect world, the Castlevania franchise doesn't need the over-the-top combat of GoW/Ninja Gaiden/etc. Who decided that was a must-have action standard? The reason that combat came about was because designers placed people in a room with a gazillion enemies like the old Smash TV game. 3D Combat can be unique without a growing list of pre-set combos where enemies get smacked twenty-plus times. The combat's depth, if true to Castlevania's spirit, should come primarily from level design. (But then that would go against the popular, mainstream grain).

Hmmm, I don't know. DMC and Ninja Gaiden are both games that I love, and each requires situational understanding of the combat at hand for the player to be able to play well (especially Ninja Gaiden, as even the lesser enemies can whoop your ass if you're just button mashing).  The same could be said of GoW.  Just because there are 20+ enemies on screen, doesn't mean the action doesn't require precision timing. Sans proper timing of your moves, you most certainly will "feel the hits".

Honestly, a CV in 3D, that had the exact same enemy layout as some of the old school CV's, would probably feel barren.

And personally, I think the modern idea of combat in action games came about because it's awesome. I like awesome.

[MarquisX]

Best to wait for the game to come out then judge. All this talk about it not looking Castlevania enough or plays like GoW is just talk until we all get a chance at the game. I think it will be great. I loved the classics and the IGA games plus I am a huge fan the DS trilogy that people like to dump on, but it's time for something new for the series. Us fans should support this game since this could be Castlevania's last big shot for a while since IGS seems burned out. Let's all hope.