Topic: So, What Exactly is Castlevania? (LoS Spoilers within)

[corneliab]

Please. People can bitch about other's opinions as much as they can if they feel like it.

[OmegaDL50]

Please. People can bitch about other's opinions as much as they can if they feel like it.

Oh people can do so if they want but it's inevitably pointless. It's not like complaining about it is going to change their opinion anyways. It's waste of time that has no constructive merit to it. We don't live in a world with a hive mind mentality.

I'm not going to change my own opinions simply because someone doesn't like it. Bitch all they want about, it's pretty much futile and won't change a damn thing in the end.

[eternal night]

I apologize for any remarks that may have been taken wrong, as it was not my intention to tell anyone to "like the game", or to force my opinion on anyone,  I'm merely pointing out several things that have been prominent in the CV franchise for decades, and that they are all here in this game. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the platforming aspect, it's there. IGA's games had little-to-none and any platforming, forced or not, is a welcome addition back to the series, IMO.

With that said, I have given some thought as to why people may not "feel" the CV in this game and are having troubles pin-pointing what that "something" may be. Here's my theory.

In LOS, the castle is not the focus point of the game/story and we are very accustomed to having it be the focal point, especially for the final stage duel, usually against a vampire.  In this game, the castle is merely another "stepping stone", an obstacle to get by so that we can progress beyond that and into a new domain. I won't fault the developers or writers for this, as it was probably necessary to set up the bigger picture with Satan at the end. However, I do hope that in future games we see *much much* more of the castle itself and get to learn about it's rich and mysterious history and origins. I love out-side castle exploration just as much as the next guy, but there is nothing wrong at all with having a game soley take place inside the creature of chaos, exploring it's depths and multiple environments.

[OmegaDL50]

Well I agree with your points that the Castle not being the focal point.

Because if you look back at older games in the series notably Castlevania II, III, IV, Rondo, and Bloodlines. There was a series of progression that took place. All of those games had varying locales that you needed to traverse through in order to eventually get to the Castle rather then the Metroid-inspired titles which was basically one huge sprawling Castle that needed to be explored.

Perhaps in the future they can make a Castlevania title that combines the best of both worlds to please the linear stage based progression fans as well as the Metroidvania fans.

I mean as in make the beginning of the game be like the old stage-based classic platformers, needing traverse through forests and swamps, caverns which consist of many platforming segments filled with enemies and a boss battle at the end, and then when you GET to the Castle the gameplay direction shifts to that of a Metroid style exploration game having to navigate this massive labyrinth of corridors, dungeons, and catacombs, and make your way to the throne room to fight and defeat the enemy.

Actually the idea itself sounds rather interesting on paper I'm almost tempted to use Gamemaker with a hodge podge of ripped Castlevania sprites and tilesets / backgrounds and simply create something like that myself.

[Valtiel]

I think the core issue here is marking the distinction between what IS Castlevania and what is ESSENTIAL for a game to be Castlevania.

For example, werewolves definitely ARE Castlevania, but are they ESSENTIAL? Would a Castlevania game without lycantropes be still Castlevania?

When working around a list of essential elements, one needs to be careful of not being too strict. If every Castlevania game should feature Frankenstein's monster because one Castlevania game at some point featured it, the risk you run is ending up playing the same game over and over and over. Didn't we go through that already?

The nitpicking at LoS is often shallow.

There was a lot of arguing about the Combat Cross, or about the need of having the game feature a Belmont, yet people call SotN or OoE or AoS full fledged Castlevania games.

People complained about not having Dracula as a boss. In that case, I guess LoI isn't Castlevania either?


There is a set of things that mark a game as a Castlevania game; it's like a baggage of elements games in the saga can pick from and implement. The whip? It may or may not be there. Belmonts? It worked with and without. This should never become luggage; it shouldn't be something that suffocates new games under the expectation of them being the same old thing.

That said, to me the fundamentals are:

- a combat-based game with solid platforming
- a gothic setting revolving around fighting monsters in Europe
- involving Dracula in some form
- subweapons

I think this is the bare minimum for me. LoS is a perfectly fine CV game in my book; most game in the saga have been perfectly fine CV games for me in this regard - the only ones I have issues with are the Soma Cruz games. Those are the games that in my eyes actually betrayed the CV legacy.

[A-Yty]

Nothing wrong with feeling the wrong, baby.

[DragonSlayr81]

Perfect word to use when explaining how a thing should look to achieve a "Castlevania feel": Spooky. A spooky countryside, spooky forest, spooky swamp, spooky graveyard, spooky village, spooky mountains, spooky church, spooky caves, spooky ruins, the majority of CV locales have always been spooky.

[X]

Definitely! Spooky is the right word for all that was castlevania in the past. Whenever I play the old-school NES titles or even SCV4, I always get the nostalgic "spooky" vib that makes these games an enjoyable experience. It's the same feeling I used to get when I was a kid knowing Halloween was right around the corner.

-X

[e105beta]

Maybe I just don't get it, but this:

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow #4 - Wizardry Lab (1)

This is not spooky.

Castlevania: Rondo of Blood Walkthrough (Stage 4': Fortress Of The Water Demon)

Neither is this.
I mean, the background is kind of eerie, but the music and the frogs kill it for me.
As well as the river rafting ride.

Case in point: it's not bad, but spooky does not a Castlevania make.

[Ahasverus]

Castlevania = Mythological creatures (With emphasis on horror creatures) + Christian imagery + Classical music (even disguised as japo-metal, it has classical chords progression) + A central "evil core" character with bonds ti the protagonist.

If you think about it, Satan is a mythological creature too, it's not too far away from the core

[mistressalucard]

Press Start: Bonus Levels - 06 - Symphony of the Trite

This is Castlevania.

Vlad the Vampire, the Belfasts, a castle, bats, an epic battle with Death, amazing dialogue.  HAVE AT YOU!

Seriously, Castlevania is music, art, Belmonts (ie Trevor, Leon, Simon and Richter, ect), magic, Alucard, whips, bats, sub weapons, fog, rain, Orlox, moody and creepy atmosphere, deranged maids, Medusa heads (arg), a Castle, candles, hearts,  Dracula, over the top dialogue and great comebacks.

I'll kill you and the night!
Mankind ill needs a saviour such as you!
What is a man?  A miserable little pile of secrets!
But enough talk, have at you!

[Dremn]

Super Castlevania IV is probably my favorite established vision for the series. Somber, gloomy, atmospheric, and very much Transylvania in nature. I love it when Konami adds their own flair to it. The colorful environments, designs, music, it's all very wonderful. ReBirth being another example, is still one of the best games I've played in a long time despite it's niche platforming, I would very much like to see more games like it in the series.

LoS is one giant reboot of the series, using familiarity from all sorts of fictional horror things, not just Castlevania, and giving it it's own spin. In my opinion, it's Lord of the Rings/Tolkien/Dark Fairy tale lore with familiar elements that Castlevania is known for. Not EVERYTHING, of course, but I strongly believe that they purposely made it that way because of it serving out more as an

(click to show/hide)

origin story for Dracula

The sequel will probably feel more like Castlevania.

[DragonSlayr81]

Maybe I just don't get it, but this:

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow #4 - Wizardry Lab (1)

This is not spooky.

Castlevania: Rondo of Blood Walkthrough (Stage 4': Fortress Of The Water Demon)

Neither is this.
I mean, the background is kind of eerie, but the music and the frogs kill it for me.
As well as the river rafting ride.

Case in point: it's not bad, but spooky does not a Castlevania make.

I think both of those have nice spooky factors. Wizardry Lab has the spookiness of an abandoned building, barren shelves, rusted machinery and cracked walls. The Rondo stage with the bended weeping willows(probably one of the more spookiest trees ever). Hell, even the river rafting ride down the mountainside, passing drying and dead foliage(yellowish green bushes, yellow grass). Sure, the changed that look to a more lush green mountainside in Dracula X Chronicles, but it was pretty dead looking in the original.

[thernz]

I think Dawn of Sorrow's grim tinge suffered from the anime. Wizardy Lab itself had a really poppy song and paced action that contrasted enough with the brown barrenness to liven it up again. I personally find Castlevania's atmosphere to be a quirky blend of things with the gothic and dark than strictly grimdark and frostbitten anyway, mostly in popping grooves working against yet also working with the spookiness.

popping grooves

[Ahasverus]

I've always said. DOS had one of the most shocking final esenes ever (Celia getting cruxifixiated? OMG) but it's overall childish theme hold it back.