Topic: Lords of Shadow - Where in the timeline (Spoilers)

[Grethor]

Hi guys! I've just finished Lords of Shadow and enjoyed every minute. I understand that it is meant to be seperate from the established timeline, but throughout the whole game I couldn't help thinking - is there a way to shoehorn it in somehow? I think it can be accomplished. Maybe if we put our heads together we can work it out for fun?

Before I start i'd better mention that I did a pretty bare-bones playthrough of the game (on Knight difficulty) so there might be things i've missed. Although I did read all the tome entries. I've played all the previous games in the series in one form or another. Although, I didn't fully complete LOI (got stuck on Walter Bernhardt!  

Spoilers begin here...

(click to show/hide)

-At certain points in the game, Rinaldo Gandolfi is mentioned as being alive long ago - implies it is set AFTER Lament of Innocence?
           -Also, a fallen brotherhood member mentions seeing Rinaldo alive? My theory is that Rinaldo is trapped in some kind of purgatory as a spectral being (which explains how he is in both LOI and  LOS) perhaps linked to the Castle.
-In Gabriel's tome of knowledge entry, it implies he might be a member of the Cronqvist family, another reference to LOI (Mathias Cronqvist). My theory being that with Leon and Mathias being allies, the 2 bloodlines became 1 through marriage (not Leon + Mathias but their children!).
-Which brings us to the Belmont name itself (apparently chosen by Gabriel for his love of mountains? while it is Leon's name aswell ...coincidentally) this is something I couldn't work out, any ideas? Maybe when Gabriel was dumped on the brotherhood doorstep he had something that was a hint to his lineage on him, which caused him to discover his bloodline and take up the name later in life and use the mountain thing as a cover.
-A major reference to the other games of course is Olrox, Brauner and Carmilla. This is pretty easy to work out - they survived (not necessarily their physical beings, possibly in spirit) and were reborn, maybe part of the Castle's magic. Another tome entry that reinforces this is that the more feral vampires become more human looking the older they become- in Olrox and Brauner's case this explains why they look human in Symphony of the Night and Order of Ecclesia respectively.
-One of my favourite parts of the game is the final boss fight against....Satan, who in my opinion looks just like Alucard. I kept thinking to myself...why does Satan look like Alucard? Then it occured to me, he has black hair like he does in Castlevania 3! This could be in Alucard's formative years, and has yet to become a nice guy and is still a bad dude! So Alucard was posing as Satan to manipulate Zobec into gathering the pieces of the mask and giving him Ultimate Powaaah! (Power to fight his father- Mathias) One major reference to Alucard is when he says "do you hear me father?? now you'll take orders from me!". I thought he was referring to Drac at that point (although it was probably meant to be God).

How am I doing so far? I was pretty satisfied with myself for working this out! But then my face went from   to   when I watched the epilogue:-

So Gabriel is Dracula? WTF? But wait, let's think about this a second- the 3 lords of shadow were the brotherhood founders' evil side (a la Piccolo and Kami from Dragonball Z!  ) am I right? Maybe that vampire is Gabriel's evil side after he ascended to a higher plane of existence. You do fight the last battle as an Angel right? Also, in that Epilogue movie Vampire Gabriel seemed pretty happy to lurk in the shadows, if he WAS Dracula, he would have fought about 20 generations of his descendants in the years between LOS and that point and been a pretty evil dude. Maybe Dracula is Mathias after all and evil Gabriel was just wondering the earth (like Lestat near the end of Interview with a Vampire, where he had been lurking in a run down building in New Orleans for years - the epilogue really reminded me of that scene!)

Also my theories have depended on one fact- that at the time of LOS , Mathias is still out there somewhere (has fathered Alucard with a human), and is gathering his powers still (not yet taken up residence in the castle- hence his current squatter Carmilla) for his war on God.

Anyway, I thought i'd throw all this out there and welcome any criticisms / or theories that you can come up with. I've enjoyed writing it out anyway and anything to augment the greatest series of games ever is only a good thing.

[Richter]

LOS - 1047
LOI - 1094

So if you really want to shoehorn it in, there's a possibility. It still doesn't really work though, the names of the LOI characters being in there is more of an easter egg for series fans.

Gandolfi is mentioned several times, and a fallen brotherhood member mentions seeing Rinaldo alive - but wasn't that in the land of the dead?
Gabriel's is implied to be a member of the Cronqvist family... but Mathias being a relation doesnt make much sense at this point.
 
Where the Belmont name came from I guess is never explained, perhaps its origins here might fit... maybe. Did Gabriel go out and create the bloodline to ensure there would be those to battle evil? If only his dark self is left on earth why would he do that? Has he got any relations alive in LOS time period who would take the Belmont name and seek to destroy him? There are a lot of problems.

The main vampires of course could be ressurected, it's always happening in these games.

Satan looks nothing like Alucard. Why do you think that? Alucard is part human son of Dracula, and Dracula has yet to exist so he cannot have a son.... Alucard is not not a demonic power strong enough to manipulate events such as LOS depicts --- its THE Satan. The pissed off fallen angel who wants to rule heaven over the God. No dice.

Gabriel did ascend to heaven or whataver in the end leaving behind his evil half, yeah. Mathias wont become Dracula for another 4 decades if we suggest there is a continuity with canon. Leon Belmont has not been born yet. Demon Castle Dracula does not exist in the way we see it in later games. Who knows what could occur in this time?

[corneliab]

Gabriel didn't ascend, at least not during Lords of Shadow. Why do people keep thinking this- it's completely wrong.

[Richter]

So why is he "Dracul" at the end? Most people came to the conclusion that the final battle is so easy because Gabriel has become a power of light to battle Satan, and as with the rest of the Lords Of Shadow, with that power their being is split in two. The vampire in the final scene is that other half. Is there a better explaination?

[corneliab]

So why is he "Dracul" at the end? Most people came to the conclusion that the final battle is so easy because Gabriel has become a power to battle Satan, and as the rest of the Lords Of Shadow, with that power splits them in two.

Is this even English? The fuck are you saying?

The better explanation is clearly the one THAT HASN'T BEEN EXPLAINED YET. Is this so hard to understand? There is no explanation yet. There is no evidence AT ALL that Gabriel ascended during the events of LoS, while there is evidence that CLEARLY CONTRADICTS this retarded theory.

[Richter]

Jesus calm down. This isn't me being crazy - I have no idea what is going on at the end of the game. This is just the theory that I've seen the most times being discussed. I hated the writing in LOS so any clear description of what actually happened is welcome to me.

[corneliab]

Gabriel was given angelic powers for the fight against Satan (or was simply an angel himself- he was killed by Zobek) and then had them taken back when he was given a second chance at life. It's as simple as it looks.

[Richter]

Well that makes sense. Him being cursed and turned into an immortal does not... guess we'll have to wait and see. So with that detour wrapped up, do you have any ideas about fitting LOS in the canon?

[corneliab]

do you have any ideas about fitting LOS in the canon?

well this conversation is clearly over

[Richter]

My mistake, thought you might have something more constructive to add.

[corneliab]

How the fuck is trying to shoehorn a game that's been explictly stated to have no affiliation with the established canon constructive?

It's fucking DESTRUCTIVE is what it is, so even try to pull that fanon bullshit.

[Nagumo]

Fitting in Lords can't be done unless you don't have a problem with stretching your suspension of disbelieve and assume they're are two guys who happen to be both called Dracula or something. Ironically, I'm pretty sure you could have put the game somewhere if they weren't any references to past Castlevania games.  

However, although you couldn't fit it with the actual timeline of the series, you could probably go with an idea Judgment slightly touched upon. Apperently time travelers can go back in time, change something, and mess everything up in order to create an alternate timeline. I guess you could assume that is a way to connect Lords to the other games. It would fit very well with the game "rebooting" the series.              
      

[Richter]

Like I said:

It still doesn't really work

more of an easter egg for series fans

Of course I mean constructive in forum terms, i.e. less aggressive nonsense.

Fitting in Lords can't be done unless you don't have a problem with stretching your suspension of disbelieve and assume they're are two guys who happen to be both called Dracula or something. Ironically, I'm pretty sure you could have put the game somewhere if they weren't any references to past Castlevania games.

Yeah. It's kind of odd they purposely went out of their way to avoid directly saying it's a full reboot though in the game itself - he doesn't actually say "Dracula" and there's a lot of weird links to the canon that shouldn't be there. It would probably have been better to stick a "Gaiden" label on their like some releases of the 2nd N64 game got.

[Nagumo]

Although the Dracul theory is very cool, I've noticed that the artwork gallery of the game does refer to him as Dracula.

[Richter]

Oh yeah, I'd forgot about that