Topic: My Return and another LoS topic.

[Valtiel]

I suppose Cox making a Belmont Dracula is better lol

Oh god yes, so much.

I'm not sure yet the LoS' plotline will turn out great, but the potential is definitely there. There HAS to be a tie between Belmonts and Dracula. This is an excellent way to create it.

Gabriel isn't really a Belmont.

Maybe the Belmonts get persecuted because some dude with their name is the devil on Earth, and they take on the task to fight him to clear their name.
Maybe the Belmonts are descendants of a dude whose family got screwed by Drac and the orphan dude pics the Belmont name to mock up the monster he's hunting.
Maybe the Belmonts start fighting Dracula because Grandma Belmont went to Drac's castle thinking he was some twice removed cousin she didn't see for years and got suckered, and now Simon wants revenge because Grandma's cookies were the shit.

Jokes aside, the potential is there. A tie between Dracula and the Belmonts has been estabilished, and that's integral to the series.

Now, what Thernz said is also very relevant to me. CV never was a very "deep" saga in terms of storyline. And the games that tried to up the ante (fundamentally just the Soma games) did so by building a shonen anime story "over" the mythos. LoS does a lot of butchery while exploring the mythos, but it does so because it builds inside the mythos, and from a new angle. The story is underdeveloped (I've said it everywhere, it's the biggest flaw of the game, and the first think Cox should look to improve - as in, tapping the potential) but the approach is absolutely fantastic. It doesn't shy away from taking CV seriously and have it enter the context of the years it takes place into, the Christian aspects that are so fundamental to vampire myth and so on. If we start getting CV games with references to the crusades or with a stage set in Notre Dame or references to historical characters and the like instead of generic anime teenagers, I'll rejoyce.

[Valtiel]

But you know, both plot twists were lame and predictable! Not sure how making a "Belmont" become Dracula is anymore sensible than Dracula being reincarnated and having a chance to become Dracula again!

I don't think the reincarnation aspect is the problem. I find the idea of playing the original Dracula more appealing than playing reincarnated Dracula for sure, but I don't see the "plot twist" as a problem. I was totally fine with it.

It's the way it's pulled off that is downright terrible. From the whole teenager factor, to the shonen story design, to the character looks... it's like you're suddenly dropped in the middle of Naruto without knowing it.

IGA's biggest problem isn't the ideas, it's the execution. I honestly don't think he really understands gothic-ness at all.

[corneliab]

Maybe the Belmonts get persecuted because some dude with their name is the devil on Earth, and they take on the task to fight him to clear their name.
Maybe the Belmonts are descendants of a dude whose family got screwed by Drac and the orphan dude pics the Belmont name to mock up the monster he's hunting.
Maybe the Belmonts start fighting Dracula because Grandma Belmont went to Drac's castle thinking he was some twice removed cousin she didn't see for years and got suckered, and now Simon wants revenge because Grandma's cookies were the shit.

I would love it if the family (or the dude that starts it anyways) that ends up going against Drac adopts the Belmont name after the supposed hero who freed the land from the forces of darkness/the Lords. That would be both awesome and epicly appropriate.

[crisis]

so why even call Gabriel a Belmont if he was never intended to be a Belmont in the first place.


People are so quick to defend the LoS twist like it's the greatest thing to happen to CV in decades. Sure we can say the story has potential all day long, it does, but the likelyhood that it'll turn out just as convoluted if not more than an IGA scenario is extremely high. So the idea of "this is sooo better than IGA story" is bullshit, it's just as lame. in my opinion of course.


Hey maybe they should introduce a "Belmont Mask," so the next hero can truly inherit the skills it takes to fight Devil Mask Gabriel?

[Valtiel]

so why even call Gabriel a Belmont if he was never intended to be a Belmont in the first place.

I would guess that's the entire point.

My personal theory is that Cox wanted to tell a "Dracula origins" story; on the other hand he really sounds like a "Belmont or bust" type of CV fan. It was sort of a catch 22, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the entire affair was started as a cop out of sorts.
However, once you look at the result, the potential is undeniable: exploring the ties between Belmonts and Dracula (and making it a little more personal than "Dracula wronged my grand grand grandad") is INFINITELY better for me than going on the umpteen tangent and introducing yet another Dracula worshiping cult and yet another resurrection story.
I think what people appreciates is that after years of frustration from seeing IGA explore 20.050.405 different side stories and then pushing the game towards a shonen anime sci-fi rendition while we were still waiting for a proper origins story or THAT DAMN DEMON CASTLE WARS GAME (ffs), LoS sort of returns to the roots of the story. It's all about Dracula, even if not in the perspective we expected.

People are so quick to defend the LoS twist like it's the greatest thing to happen to CV in decades.

But does it surprise you? We're in the realm of opinions but... it is. We got a fleshed out (for CV standards) Dracula that has an agenda and even a set of personal enemies. We got an expanded mythos that tries to give some momentum to Drac's character by explaining (or at least introducing) his relationship with the other forces of evil. I understand that the staple of the "lovable villain" is probably overused, but Dracula is traditionally the paradigm of the clichè.
There's a lot of smoke and mirrors involved (once again, Cox and Co. need to up the ante tenfold with the plot because so far so good, but if they don't work out that potential then all the "maturity" of this storyline will stay in the realm of simply having a more serious presentation and little else) but after decades of same-ish titles with plots often better ignored, we got something exciting to look up to even in the storyline department.

Sure we can say the story has potential all day long, it does, but the likelyhood that it'll turn out just as convoluted if not more than an IGA scenario is extremely high. So the idea of "this is sooo better than IGA story" is bullshit, it's just as lame. in my opinion of course.

I think in terms of how the actual events pan out it would require a major screwup to get there, but yes, the LoS storyline CAN fall flat on its face. It certainly needs more exposition; it needs new kind of narrative. We need more characters, more dialogues, more events. Recurring characters (if the next LoS doesn't have more Laura, or if Zobek is gone, it will be a major failure) and all that. The potential is there, but it's mostly untapped.

However, I think the Belmont thing is one of the most exciting aspects. What if Belmonts DO originate from Gabriel? What if he has a son between LoS' ending and becoming a vampire? You'd have Alucard and the Belmonts being stepbrothers. You could have the Belmonts being destined to fight Drac because they descend from him in his semi-angelic status (thus having some of those qualities themselves). They could even definitely sidestep from the core lore and make the Belmonts dhampyrs, in case they don't want to use Alucard.

Hey maybe they should introduce a "Belmont Mask," so the next hero can truly inherit the skills it takes to fight Devil Mask Gabriel?

I think the safest bet is exploring the path of having Gabriel have a son before becoming Drac, and making the Belmont bloodline have the powers and skills to face evil due to being born from a dude who was resurrected to fight the devil. In the end, having to fight Drac is a curse more than anything else - I would really, really want the next LoS (if it stars a Belmont) to have a more energetic, heroic approach, but obviously it will still have a dark touch.

However, if we get a "Simon" in the next LoS, I want to see him introduced as a young, cocky and somewhat fun guy. Have the drama kick in when it's due, but a part of the Belmont charm is that they seem to have (yuck) some fun doing their job.

[crisis]

Good thing LoS isn't canon

[Valtiel]

Good thing LoS isn't canon

If there ever was a sentence that means absolutely nothing is "XXX isn't canon"  .

[corneliab]

Good thing LoS isn't canon

Translation:

LOLOLOL I CANT FUCKING ARGUE ANYMORE

[crisis]

Typical corneliab trying to instigate shit yet again. Get lost.


@Valtiel: if you wanna play games that feature silly plots of DHAMPYRE BELMONTS then be my guest. Maybe Legends can fit into the LoS timeline.

[thernz]

Are we basically liking LoS because of its potential to add a whole slew of convoluted and unnecessary elements into the story?
That's kinda relying on the fact that LoS's story had a lot of holes. In that way, we can see that it might be seen as a sort of marketing technique to make us buy the sequels. It's really in the same boat as IGA's sidestories you accuse of letting on too few details to add to the overall story.
A story doesn't turn deep when you pile on a bunch of characters and other plot threads. For one, I really don't see the whole need for Dracula to have his own set of personal enemies when the series is about Dracula versus the Belmonts. It's really driving away from the premise of the story. Of course, going by the ending, LoS might set up a storyline whose premise is Dracula's rise to power and decaying social life, rather than any focus on Belmonts. Basically makes the whole Belmont vs Dracula thread a bit useless in the grand scheme of its narrative then.

[Valtiel]

@Valtiel: if you wanna play games that feature silly plots of DHAMPYRE BELMONTS then be my guest. Maybe Legends can fit into the LoS timeline.

I don't know, I played as Soma Cruz, I'm ready for everything. And heck, a few weeks ago I got bombarded by people telling me CV is SUPPOSED to be silly  .


No, I really do NOT want Belmont dhampyrs. Heck, I'm fairly annoyed by Alucard already. I was just pointing out a possibility (not necessarily a welcome one) brought up from the fact that LoS is a game that rises interesting questions instead of giving dumb answers (which is something IGA games too often do).

As for what Thernz said, well, yes, a part of the meaning of a reboot is that of opening up new story possibilites. Will they suck as much as the latest IGA trend? It's absolutely possible, as I said so. I think a lot of people is excited about the possibility that they don't.

We can disagree on the quality of the story, and it's normal. I think however that while this is a small (but very dedicated) community, the storyline poll is hard to argue. The vast majority of the fans appreciated LoS' story well above the series standards, and while LoS' story isn't perfect (and I keep repeating it's the first thing to work on) that does say something. IGA got dozens of shots at delivering a good story and systematically failed. And that storyline is now in a place that is much, much, much more removed from the serie's roots than LoS. We are already playing as "Dracula" in a setting that stopped being gothic and started being Bleach and we're in the future instead of the past and all that. There's no coming back from that. IGA's CV is a shonen anime show now - and I can see people absolutely loving that, and I sincerely hope they keep getting that kind of game, but as a pre-Metroidvania fan I feel a lot more at home with LoS' story than Portrait or the Sorrow games. It's Ecclesia all over a game, it feels removed from the main storyline and just for that a lot more immersive.

We could get down discussing the flaws of LoS' story (risking to waste the Belmont thread completely while focusing on Dracula is definitely one) but that doesn't change the fact that it's leaps and bounds above what we got for the past 15 years.

[corneliab]

Typical corneliab trying to instigate shit yet again.


@Valtiel: if you wanna play games that feature silly plots of DHAMPYRE BELMONTS then be my guest. Maybe Legends can fit into the LoS timeline.

If you're going to slam me for "insigating" it'd probably be more effective if you didn't do the same thing a second later.

Get lost.

Eat shit and die.

[crisis]

Well a lot of your posts here have been nothing but instigating other members & throwing fuel into the fire. Then again, you do post at gamefaqs, so you should be grouped with all those other fucktards that have "opinions" that literally mean shit.


DERP

[X]

IGA F**ked up the story when he created his monster 'LoI'. And this: IGA fucked the story by sealing dracula's castle in a sky and making him into japanese teenager. is more icing on his damned cake.

-X

[SIRHardle]

Hm... I may seem to be entering dangerous and unfriendly grounds here. Dunno if it's even worthy... oh well...

LOS' storytelling is faulty and poorly constructed. In the end we are left with tons of weird question and whole lot of lack of exposition for the story elements and characters, that fails to give the player any sense of what this new universe of CV might be about. With a twist in the end added mostly to fulfill a certain requirement of today's gen of videogame's "needs epic cliffhanger without any sense of conclusion so the demand for another game will exist beyond actual game merits". The problem with this is exactly how was implemented, this is as open an unclear for the writers as it is for the players, we got the "interesting questions" but the dumb answers might just be around the corner (DLC, LOS2, etc.).