Topic: I Critique the Perfect Game

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

That last post was seething with anti-fanboy bile.  It's not becoming of you, man.

It wasn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.  Having said that, the fact remains that the trailer was too short to base anything out of.  There was no gameplay shown, from what I recall.  It was just a short little blurb.... can anyone link to it or something? 

i completely agree dude ^^^
seems alot of guys around here like to type those kind of hate posts towards IGA's Alucard character so i tend to avoid replying and voiceing my opinion inorder to avoid a flame war since i AM a proud Alucard fan
and here is a link to the trailer
Castlevania PS3/360 '08 prototype (English Subtitles)

@Crisis
we'll ok its cool dude everyone has their own opinion so i understand

[thernz]

I don't think the exploration mold would really work in harmony with current 3D action level design. The ease of pace and movement is pretty much flipped when you're adding a dimension. How does Metroid Prime handle the level design? I never played it. But I guess that would have the right things to change.

You'd have to make the combat engaging but a quick affair to ensure a quick pace when traveling so that they remain interested by not frustrated by having to run through the same enemies. There's also the issue of also making the environments more interesting to navigate with fast and smooth momentum. The game itself would have to be less difficult (well not that much) than your standard action titles to build on the desire to explore rather than make players wary.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Thanks for that, DarkPrinceAlucard.

Yeah there's nothing really showing any gameplay.  The hair makes some sense as the artwork shows lots of locks, but it does look like a PS2-quality FMV more than anything.

[Alutwon]

I don't think the exploration mold would really work in harmony with current 3D action level design. The ease of pace and movement is pretty much flipped when you're adding a dimension. How does Metroid Prime handle the level design? I never played it. But I guess that would have the right things to change.

Prime does it well because it has platforming and a reason to explore
and because the levels are varied and well designed not copied and pasted

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Metroid Prime is awesome.  You're really missing out if you've not played it.  It's come out years back but it's still very fun.

[Vrakanox]

i completely agree dude ^^^
seems alot of guys around here like to type those kind of hate posts towards IGA's Alucard character so i tend to avoid replying and voiceing my opinion inorder to avoid a flame war since i AM a proud Alucard fan
and here is a link to the trailer
Castlevania PS3/360 '08 prototype (English Subtitles)

@Crisis
we'll ok its cool dude everyone has their own opinion so i understand

Yeah I'm a proud Alucard fan too. I had no idea people had such harsh feelings towards him. I figured he'd be popular around here since it's a Castlevania forum. I understand though in a long running video game series like Castlevania everyone has the characters they like and don't like.

[darkwzrd4]

let's get back on topic.  Yes, SotN has its flaws.  But, remember it is the first of its kind.  The only shame is that its successors were just clones in a way.  They were great games but they too had their flaws.  There really isn't a truly perfect game.  Every game has its flaws.  For example, the controls in LoS don't always work.  Sometimes when you try to dodge, the controls don't respond and you end up getting hit.  Still, for being the first of its kind, SotN was very well done.  We just need Konami to look at the past games and examine the flaws so they know what to avoid in future games.  It wouldn't hurt to have some people check out some fan made forums to see what fans like us are saying.
Regarding whether Konami should have other game developers make a CV like with LoS, I say find the country where a large portion of the fan base is like in the US, and let a subsidiary (Konami America) make it.  Another way to make a game would be to have someone take a survey in a country like the US and build a game based on the results of that survey.  For example, Konami America could have videogame retailers such as GameStop offer surveys online or in store for a specified period of time and then send the results back to Konami America.

[e105beta]

let's get back on topic.  Yes, SotN has its flaws.  But, remember it is the first of its kind.  The only shame is that its successors were just clones in a way.  They were great games but they too had their flaws.  There really isn't a truly perfect game.  Every game has its flaws.  For example, the controls in LoS don't always work.  Sometimes when you try to dodge, the controls don't respond and you end up getting hit.  Still, for being the first of its kind, SotN was very well done.  We just need Konami to look at the past games and examine the flaws so they know what to avoid in future games.  It wouldn't hurt to have some people check out some fan made forums to see what fans like us are saying.
Regarding whether Konami should have other game developers make a CV like with LoS, I say find the country where a large portion of the fan base is like in the US, and let a subsidiary (Konami America) make it.  Another way to make a game would be to have someone take a survey in a country like the US and build a game based on the results of that survey.  For example, Konami America could have videogame retailers such as GameStop offer surveys online or in store for a specified period of time and then send the results back to Konami America.

The problem with surveys is that, if you're looking to expand the fanbase, the people replying to the surveys tend not to be the people you're going to market to.

I don't think the Metroidvania formula is entirely dead, and I think SotN could be revived in a way, but what needs to happen is that producers and fans need to get this notion of "Us vs them" or "Metroidvania vs Classicvania" out of their heads. The only thing that does is stagnate an otherwise excellent series because nobody is willing to make any risks out of fear of fan rage. I think that's why Konami tried getting new fans with LoS; the current fanbase is simply to volatile and blows up at anything that doesn't go their way.

[Valtiel]

I don't think the exploration mold would really work in harmony with current 3D action level design. The ease of pace and movement is pretty much flipped when you're adding a dimension. How does Metroid Prime handle the level design? I never played it. But I guess that would have the right things to change.

You'd have to make the combat engaging but a quick affair to ensure a quick pace when traveling so that they remain interested by not frustrated by having to run through the same enemies. There's also the issue of also making the environments more interesting to navigate with fast and smooth momentum. The game itself would have to be less difficult (well not that much) than your standard action titles to build on the desire to explore rather than make players wary.

The core point is that there's so much untapped potential in 2D, they really don't NEED to go the 3D way.

Just make a 2D CV with:

- HD graphics
- a streamlined sub-system entirely based on subweapons (something like the CotM DSS but affecting subs instead of the main weapon, taking a cue from LoS)
- revamped combat - insert unlockable combos and moves, a block system, a dodge system that is better than SotN; make combat fast paced but more strategic and "beat'em up" like compared to the past
- throw in the most gorgeous 2D art your money can buy
- make one seamless map, bring back teleportation pods
- completely and absolutely exploit the potential of 40 inch monitors and platforming

God I could go on all day. There's so MUCH you can do with a console based, 2D CV game. It's basically almost impossible to fail, and the userbase IS there as long as they don't expect to sell millions (which LoS didn't).

[Vrakanox]

The core point is that there's so much untapped potential in 2D, they really don't NEED to go the 3D way.

Just make a 2D CV with:

- HD graphics
- a streamlined sub-system entirely based on subweapons (something like the CotM DSS but affecting subs instead of the main weapon, taking a cue from LoS)
- revamped combat - insert unlockable combos and moves, a block system, a dodge system that is better than SotN; make combat fast paced but more strategic and "beat'em up" like compared to the past
- throw in the most gorgeous 2D art your money can buy
- make one seamless map, bring back teleportation pods
- completely and absolutely exploit the potential of 40 inch monitors and platforming

God I could go on all day. There's so MUCH you can do with a console based, 2D CV game. It's basically almost impossible to fail, and the userbase IS there as long as they don't expect to sell millions (which LoS didn't).

I agree that a game like that would sell well, there are still a ton of fans of 2D who want Castlevania to go back to 2D. For some reason though Konami is really dead set on making a 3D game, and a game like you just described could also work well in 3D if done properly. Like 105Beta said the fanbase is really getting into this whole us vs them thing. Whether its classicvania vs metroidvania or cox vs iga or 3d vs 2d. I know there is a way to appeal to new fans (a graphically impressive games with modern day controls). While at the same time keeping the old school fans as well. Lords of Shadow was a good game the metascore is proof of that. Apparently though it "wasn't Castlevania enough" for enough of the fanbase and I agree with that as well.

[Joachim]

I don't think the problem is the depth of the combat system. The classicvanias had incredibly simple combat systems but the combat is rarely if ever criticized; the issue is a matter of level and enemy design. I'm not concerned with how deep the combat system is, so long as they can make it work in conjunction with the level and enemy design; unfortunately, that's not really as easily definable a matter.

[darkwzrd4]

The core point is that there's so much untapped potential in 2D, they really don't NEED to go the 3D way.

Just make a 2D CV with:

- HD graphics
- a streamlined sub-system entirely based on subweapons (something like the CotM DSS but affecting subs instead of the main weapon, taking a cue from LoS)
- revamped combat - insert unlockable combos and moves, a block system, a dodge system that is better than SotN; make combat fast paced but more strategic and "beat'em up" like compared to the past
- throw in the most gorgeous 2D art your money can buy
- make one seamless map, bring back teleportation pods
- completely and absolutely exploit the potential of 40 inch monitors and platforming

God I could go on all day. There's so MUCH you can do with a console based, 2D CV game. It's basically almost impossible to fail, and the userbase IS there as long as they don't expect to sell millions (which LoS didn't).

This I agree with. 

I agree that a game like that would sell well, there are still a ton of fans of 2D who want Castlevania to go back to 2D. For some reason though Konami is really dead set on making a 3D game, and a game like you just described could also work well in 3D if done properly. Like 105Beta said the fanbase is really getting into this whole us vs them thing. Whether its classicvania vs metroidvania or cox vs iga or 3d vs 2d. I know there is a way to appeal to new fans (a graphically impressive games with modern day controls). While at the same time keeping the old school fans as well. Lords of Shadow was a good game the metascore is proof of that. Apparently though it "wasn't Castlevania enough" for enough of the fanbase and I agree with that as well.

This is also a good point.  We need to stop just looking for what we hate and begin looking for what we like and improving on it.

[Munchy]

This thread is false advertising! The perfect game is obviously Final Fight.

[Maedhros]

The core point is that there's so much untapped potential in 2D, they really don't NEED to go the 3D way.

Just make a 2D CV with:

- HD graphics
- a streamlined sub-system entirely based on subweapons (something like the CotM DSS but affecting subs instead of the main weapon, taking a cue from LoS)
- revamped combat - insert unlockable combos and moves, a block system, a dodge system that is better than SotN; make combat fast paced but more strategic and "beat'em up" like compared to the past
- throw in the most gorgeous 2D art your money can buy
- make one seamless map, bring back teleportation pods
- completely and absolutely exploit the potential of 40 inch monitors and platforming

God I could go on all day. There's so MUCH you can do with a console based, 2D CV game. It's basically almost impossible to fail, and the userbase IS there as long as they don't expect to sell millions (which LoS didn't).

I don't see how a console game could do better than a portable one. Sales wise. HD graphics is not a necessity, they just need to remake the sprites and all the assets for this to work (or use a different art style/direction), and release it multi-plataform. The next portables will have better graphics than this generation and greater fanbase than the actual one, I can't see the next CV 2D being released for the consoles as a full-disc game.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I don't get why if Sonic Colors can pull it off, Donkey Kong Country Returns can pull it off, Bionic Commando ReArmed can pull it off, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii can pull it off, Castlevania in 3D sidescrolling action with good graphics hasn't even been conceived.  DXC was the closest we got, but it was not on a TV (not really).